Angie Spice

Voice Over (00:03):
This show is sponsored by the Comics Shop. We hope you enjoy the show.

Leigh Chalker (00:26):
All right, good day. My name’s Lee Chalker. I am the co-creator of Ring Around the Rosie, which will be coming at you shortly. And tonight is the 24th Tuesday, if you can believe that. So it blows my mind. But anyway, let’s get onto our guest this evening. So Angie Spice, how are you

Angie Spice (00:47):
Going? Yeah, good. Thanks for having me on.

Leigh Chalker (00:50):
That’s all right, mate. That’s all right. So for all of those viewers at home that have never seen the show before, it’s based on a few prompts, which is who, what, where, when, why, and how. And we just basically cover a whole heap of stuff, comics related, life related. Wherever it takes is Ski a Carey, and we just do a little bit of chin waggon. So all audience interaction is encouraged. So if you have any questions for Angie, fire away and Angie, and I’ll do our best to get it answered for you. So thank you for everyone watching. Alright, Angie, mate, I’m coming straight in there with you and it’s alright.

Angie Spice (01:34):
Let’s go.

Leigh Chalker (01:35):
Who?

Angie Spice (01:40):
Yeah, who am I?

Leigh Chalker (01:42):
Indeed?

Angie Spice (01:44):
Yeah, so I’m Angie Spice. Obviously I’ve been making comics now for about seven or eight years. I grew up in Tasmania. I a start. Yeah, I don’t know. Where do you want to begin?

Leigh Chalker (02:02):
Well, mate, we can begin wherever you like. Let’s go back to little Angie and growing up in Tasmania. So what happened there mate? What section, what part of Tasmania were you in? What got you started in?

Angie Spice (02:20):
Yeah, sure. So I’m from King Island, which is a very rural kind of area of Tasmania. And I guess back in those days there, no, wasn’t really the internet yet, maybe later when I was a teenager. But back in those days, you had to sort of find stuff to do as a kid, go play out in the yard or whatever, find wherever you could to entertain yourself. But I really loved telling stories for a very young age. I really loved drawing and I loved animation. So that’s kind of what gave me an outlet, I guess, to get started. And I also really loved music and singing. So following music as well gave me a lot more confidence in myself and it helped me connect with people as well on different level. So I was very involved with both music and art, but I think that I always really wanted to create stories if I had to really choose.

Leigh Chalker (03:27):
Now they both started together. I guess your love of music and your love of animation?

Angie Spice (03:37):
For as long as I can remember. I mean, I’ve always been very creative anyway. Yeah, I guess I started, I mean, everyone sings when it is like you’re a child, you draw, you sing, you play sport, you have fun, you play dress up, you do everything. But those were two things that I sort of gravitated toward. So I guess they both were always there in a way. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (04:05):
Did you come from a creative family?

Angie Spice (04:08):
You could say that.

Leigh Chalker (04:11):
Other artists or what sort of creativity was it encouraged? Was there any pathway you wanted to take?

Angie Spice (04:20):
I don’t know. I think a lot of us were encouraged to probably be a bit more sporty, but yeah.

Leigh Chalker (04:27):
And what sport did you play up there, mate? What was the rank? When you’re on a Sunday, you go and past the park, was it a FL or what was the general pass on?

Angie Spice (04:43):
I think back in those days, everyone played a little bit of sport, especially on the weekends. I played a bit of tennis, bit of golf, bit of netball. I was never really into it. I was always, I mean, I’m a big MMA fan now. I love watching UFC. I love it and I love following the storylines there. And I always was sort of drawn towards fighting, but I wasn’t really exposed to it then. So if that was available around then, and maybe I would’ve tried that. But yeah, I was also a little bit of a worse as well. I was very timid. I didn’t want to get, physically, I didn’t want any physical contact. So yeah, I guess I was doing the right thing, just drawing and singing and staying safe in that way.

Leigh Chalker (05:38):
Well, drawing and singing can not always be safe, mate. So it’s when those creative juices

Angie Spice (05:45):
Are flowing. Yeah, there’s always a danger mentally, especially when you’re younger. I think it’s so easy to take advantage of someone’s mind and manipulate you, which I think we’ve all been through in different regards. I think when you get older you can learn to control that and a lot better. But I think when you’re a child, you’re very vulnerable. And when you’re a child, a lot of those voices and all those, a lot of manipulation can happen that makes you hear those negative voices or makes you hear that you’re not worth what you really are or that you have to be a people please or that you’re not as good as what you should be and you shouldn’t do that. And all of those things when you’re a child can make or break you maybe as an artist or you can still be a successful artist, most of us, but still have those voices in our head. But I think as we get older, we can learn if we choose to deal with all that stuff. And even as artists in the public eye, people can say what they want about you, but you’ve got to learn to just turn that off and you kind of just got to learn to just keep doing you and forget about all that outside shadow.

Leigh Chalker (07:05):
Yeah. Well, if we left everyone in our lives, man, and told us we couldn’t do anything, we wouldn’t get anything done, man. That’s one of the sayings in my family that I grew up with. So I can understand that there’s always people, family members and friends that are always, I guess, pushing what they think you should do onto you.

Angie Spice (07:29):
I think everyone’s like that. Everyone wants to project themselves onto whether they think that

Leigh Chalker (07:37):
Is rich. So would you consider yourself to be an artist or writer first? Angie?

Angie Spice (07:44):
Yeah, good question. I kind of consider myself a writer first, although drawing is very much a part of writing. So I guess the answer is that it’s kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. It is a little bit like that for me. Sometimes. I might mean the way that I write a story, actually sit down and write it like a novel or I write the text, but before that I might actually be drawing a few pictures or taking a bit of inspiration, drawing, sketching. So they both sort of feed off each other. So I definitely think I’m a writer that draws, I draw what I write. So you yourself

Leigh Chalker (08:29):
With sketching, is that when you just said, then I can jump in there for a tick? I always find the creative process of people’s minds really interesting. Everyone’s got a different thing when you sit down. So from what you just said, you don’t do normal comic scripts. You sit down and just let it all out, man, and just do it in a sense. Do you sit down and draw a character and the story comes to you and then you sit down at the computer? Or do you write and then what’s your flow? I

Angie Spice (09:08):
Don’t really have a set structure, just depending on the project as well. I might have a very different approach if I’m approached by say, an editor that wants me to do a particular thing. Not that I’ve done actual writing for an editor. It’s a different process. It depends. If I have full creative brain, then sure I, I usually take a lot of walks or something, or I need a holiday or some new experience to sort of trigger me to have new ideas. And then I write down these ideas as much as what’s there and then I’ll put it away and I’ll leave it there until I need it. Sometimes I forget about it and I might use it in another story I’m writing. But a lot of my stories before I write them, I’ve thought of them in my head or I’ve just spent a lot of time in that universe in my head, so I know everything.

(10:02)
It’s all there. The characters are there, the world’s there. All I have to do is just sort of be the instrument that, I mean, I don’t have to do anything. I just need to do the work. But creativity does the work, if you know what I mean. I’m just a pen. I’m actually doing the physical work. But I feel like creative work is a bit more mysterious than what people like to give credit for. It’s hard work. You’ve got to just do the work. That’s it. You just got to do it. But yeah, I don’t know. The last thing I wrote was a Hobart rap city, which is my current web comic. I had the story for that in my head, but not all of it. Some of it comes out whilst you’re writing the script or whilst you’re actually drawing the actual episode. When you’re drawing it, there are, because that’s not another stage of acting when you get the characters on the page and there’s just even more than what was there before. So yeah, it’s all at each process. You get more story coming up.

Leigh Chalker (11:14):
Do you tend to write your characters based on people you’ve worked with, family members, that sort of thing? Or is it a bit, or are the characters based on, I guess, a compartmentalised portion of yourself of who you envision that character to be? Like say Robert E. Howard used to Conan was a portion of him, or Solomon Kane was a part of him. So the voice of you, is that in your characters?

Angie Spice (11:49):
Sometimes more than others, but normally when I have a character, it’s a little mix of maybe different facets of myself or other people I know could be a mix of all that or a particular character. I think as humans, we categorise certain people in certain areas of our brain, whether we’re aware of it or not. And we start developing these characters because they all sort of blob together. When you think back of certain people, some of them get mixed up or it’s kind of how I go about it. I don’t really think of anyone in particular, although sometimes it’s very obvious that it is someone in particular to me.

Leigh Chalker (12:34):
Has it ever been obvious to the person reading it that it was them?

Angie Spice (12:38):
I don’t think so. A lot of characters that I’ve been inspired by being people that maybe, I don’t know, I thought were very interesting or weird, but they weren’t really people. Maybe in my inner circle once there was one character, I better be careful, I say this. There was this person that pretty much conned me at one stage of my life, ripped me off. But she’s made such a good prototype for a lot of characters I’ve made of this sort of older woman that’s very sort of, what’s the word? Glamorous, but she’s also nasty and she comes out in a few of my characters that I’ve created. So I’m kind of grateful for that. Not main characters.

Leigh Chalker (13:33):
I guess that’s the beauty of being the creator though. You can sneak little bits and pieces in that means something to you that no one else will get. Because a majority of the characters that I’ve created, there’s definitely people in there that I know that wouldn’t, some are bad, but they’ll never know. And that’s the way.

Angie Spice (14:05):
But me, it’s only ever been a little bit of that person. It’s never been that person. That’ll just be freaky if I actually drew that person.

Leigh Chalker (14:16):
Yeah, no, I’ve never drawn them. Yeah, because a lot of my, I dunno if anyone would be particularly happy if I drew them. I’m not really a portrait person. My people are always got issues, man, like missing an eye or extra hands or something like that. I sort of veer off into the fantastical, so I can hide behind that. What, no, there’s no nothing in common with you, mate. Don’t worry about it. Yeah, I’ve always found that. So Angie, with your artwork, man. Now obviously with the Kickstarter currently at the moment, there’s a lot of artwork on display. Would I be incorrect in suggesting that the outdoors and nature have played a rather large part in your Coer series?

Angie Spice (15:17):
Yeah, of course. That’s pretty much one of the main inspirations behind why it’s set in the Tasmanian wilderness, just because I just really inspired me. I really resonated with it. So I thought, why isn’t this in a comic? It’s amazing. So you’re pretty much on point there. Yeah, that’s a big element of courier. Sure.

Leigh Chalker (15:44):
Yeah. What inspires you about nature, mate? Are you just being out in it brings you ideas?

Angie Spice (15:55):
Well, I’m very introverted, extremely introverted, so it gives me a chance to just connect with nature. I don’t know, just I’m pretty spiritual too, so it’s nice to be grounded in that kind of environment and just centre yourself and get rid of all of the outside noise and all of the stuff we worry about from day to day. There’s something perfect about nature that if you don’t go into nature, you just sort of forget about it, that you can actually just live in the moment and everything’s just perfect and beautiful and you don’t really need anything more than that. But being human and living in the world, we do. But there’s just so many things that distract us and make us feel like we need to have more. And there’s always problems with life, but there’s something really peaceful and perfect about nature that humans are imperfect in a way that nature isn’t, if you know what I mean.

Leigh Chalker (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent, mate. I do, believe it or not, I do 100% understand what you mean. One of my themes I guess, in every comic I’ve ever done is I guess nature versus man. To a certain extent, people in society seem to want to go higher and escape the ground level, but at the same time, I always love, but I

Angie Spice (17:35):
Think a lot of people they don’t know about that they don’t have that ground level. And for me as well, I can forget about that too. I can get so caught up in my work or my drawing and I forget about it too. I think it’s quite easy to forget some people maybe like yourself. Are you always aware of it? Because sometimes I’m not.

Leigh Chalker (17:57):
No, I guess I like space. Anyone that knows me, it’s like I like people to an extent, but there’s also a time where, man, I’ve been known to sit here in this granny flat for days and days on end and talk to no one, but dogs and animals and stuff. But getting out, having a walk and trying to chill out away from people is good. Gives you time to breathe and just recollect and get your thoughts together and things like that. Man, people seem to me to probably be a little bit too caught up in the bright lights, I guess. And I don’t mean the bright lights of the city. I mean this, you mean.

Angie Spice (18:44):
I think humans are also very animalistic in a way that everyone wants to prove that they’re worth something. And it is all about the hierarchy and how high up in the rankings you can get. And I think that’s part of human nature as well. It’s what society teaches us. It’s in your career, it’s in your family, it’s in your friends. Everyone has their little groups and their structure of the groups. And I think for artists, it’s easier for us to see, oh, we don’t need to be in that. And we realise that being alone is very important to creativity, but some people are too afraid to be alone with themselves to understand that.

Leigh Chalker (19:29):
Well, I mean time spent by yourself is another good thing. The whole creative base of that too is creativity. I guess I say it on the show a fair bit, is the importance of it to an individual. Whether you’re, as you said, learning a martial arts or whether you’re cooking or whether you’re doing whatever that you find creative, that you’re using your hands and mind and your heart to mate, to be better master, get good at it, can help. It can certainly heal. It can save yourself too from a lot of stuff. I would say that, yeah, it probably more people should go and have a breather and turn their phones off and chill out for a couple of days, man, without people banging on like, oh, you need to do this. Oh, look, the latest, this is out, the latest status out. And I don’t know, man. I see money as a hierarchy of human nature too. This is just my opinion, it’s just my thought processes, but I

Angie Spice (20:49):
Think it’s the approach

Leigh Chalker (20:52):
Security. Sorry, mate.

Angie Spice (20:55):
Oh, sorry. I was just saying I think it’s your approach to money or what it means to you, how you use it, if you use it as a tool to create wonderful things like comics or create animations or something, which cries a big budget or Yeah, security is also important as an artist. You need to feel safe as an artist. You have something, you need some sort of foundation.

Leigh Chalker (21:24):
Well, that’s all the balance, isn’t it? You got to know that. You’re okay there. You got to know here. Oh, me old mate. Mr. Gary Cha has got a question for you, mate. Are you a fan of Catherine Hepburn, an inspiration for courier, and do you love the old movies?

Angie Spice (21:42):
Yeah, so that actually came about during my, I actually thought of creating career before I was a fan or a de admirer of her. I actually researched 1940s actresses, famous actresses, and I saw her, I’m like, oh, that’s Geraldine. That’s what I want Geraldine to look like. So ever since then, I have watched a couple of her films. Probably not as many as I should. I really need to watch more, but I’m the kind of person that’s like, oh, you’re not going to watch a movie now, you’re going to draw. But I really need to watch more films, especially historically relevant ones. But I just knew that was Geraldine when I saw her, and I’m like, yeah. So yeah, I use a lot of her photos as references sometimes, but I think I need to do so much more. I need to go back and study fashion, study the fabrics I need go back into my details again.

(22:39)
So I’m looking forward to giving myself a little time to just go back into actually just giving myself a reboot, not for courier, obviously, because that’ll be done once I’ve done the second volume. It’s all drawn, I mean, but yeah, just going forward, it’ll be nice to have a little bit of a reboot, recap, revise. It’s so hard as an artist, for me, it’s been so challenging being good at all the facets of being an artist. I’ve been focusing so much on anatomy lately. I haven’t been studying any fashion or fabrics or clothing or other things. It’s hard to allocate. It’s hard to, my practise every day is hard to allocate things that you are always going to neglect something. I find it really hard to find all the time to go over everything. But yeah, it’s important

Leigh Chalker (23:38):
On that. The things that you neglect, have you locked them in your mind that you want? Come back to them at some point and get better at and incorporate them.

Angie Spice (23:52):
What I’m studying now, I always was like, oh, I need to study more anatomy. I need to study properly. And then I did it, and then I’m like, oh, I actually to study structure and form. So then I went to study that. So yeah, I do get round to it, but I guess what I mean is that for me, it’s been difficult to find the time on a regular basis to go over each of these things. I think I get caught up in my own work. Sometimes I just forget to be a little bit more vee or a little bit more cerebral. So that’s something I want to work on personally. But

Leigh Chalker (24:29):
Yeah, I guess when you’re working on a project though, I mean that’s, it’d be pretty easy takes. Get onto that line you’re on, man, and sort of you can’t be great at everything at one point and then you learn.

Angie Spice (24:46):
No, I find it. Yeah, it’s difficult. With Kickstarter, for example, it almost feels like running a business. It’s like that. Even before the launch, there was so much preparation that when maybe a couple of months or more, so that was pretty hardcore.

Leigh Chalker (25:07):
Now Mr. Challen has got another one for you, what was the experience like colouring your old asrs for the collection?

Angie Spice (25:15):
Yeah, it was really good. It gave me time to actually be proud of what I’d done, be grateful for the work I’d done, because you always think, oh, that was my first comic or my first few comics, and then you think, oh, that’s trash. But actually going through each page and colouring it, I thought, oh, there’s something really authentic and nice that I couldn’t actually recapture because it was a raw part of my style that was very powerful, but it wasn’t maybe as technical as what I can do now. Now I could probably execute quite a few things that more technically, but now I’ve kind of got to get more of that rawness back in. I think more of that.

Leigh Chalker (26:00):
Was there anything,

Angie Spice (26:01):
It’s always hard to be satisfied as an artist.

Leigh Chalker (26:05):
Was there anything in those that when you were going back colouring the comic book, was there any panels or sequences that you were tempted to redo for the or did you just go, no, I’ll colour it or re-let it?

Angie Spice (26:25):
There was only, no, no, I re-let it all, I did do that just because I wanted it to be a bit more collected and a bit more consistent. So I relied it all at the same font. Obviously the originals were, some of them were hand lettered, which are really cool. But now those issues can be a bit more, I guess, exclusive and precious now because the handwritten ones. So I did read letter It all, I did touch up maybe one or two or only a few panels. I didn’t do a lot. I found there was some bleed areas of the page that could have been elaborated on a little bit. So I did check my corners. I have a habit of stop drawing at the corner before the bleed gets cut off on the page. So I did that. I went back and I fixed all that. That was the main thing. No, other than that, I kept it pretty true to how it was originally because I think now the way I draw is so different. It would look stupid if I tried to read. I might as well just redo it all, and I’m not going to do that. No way. So I like it how it is. I feel like it’s perfect the way it is. And I also want to really demonstrate in my work, the process of just starting something and having fun, exploring and developing your style as well.

Leigh Chalker (27:53):
Well, you would’ve, because being someone that draws a lot like myself, you’re always moving forward. The last page is done and you’re onto the next one, and you’re onto the next one, and you don’t often get an opportunity to go back and see where you started, do you, and see how far you’ve come. Did you feel an immense, while you were going through colouring and that, I guess two questions. Did you feel an immense amount of pride in the fact that you’d done this project, you’d finished it. You’ve just said to me that you’re extremely introverted, yet you are at conventions and comic book meetups, and you’re out and about. You’re plying your wares, you’re out meeting people. Did courier get you out into that sort of push you out the door to get to that and going through that experience, coming back now and finishing it and trade paper backing it, do you look at that and go, wow, look at all I did there?

Angie Spice (29:12):
Yeah, it does give me perspective. Sure. But I feel like I got into the community before releasing Korea. So I knew a lot of people in Melbourne, for example. I knew a lot of guys and they helped me a lot too. So for me, that was what came first. No, the

Leigh Chalker (29:33):
Community just an interest. You wanted to do something at that point. So you thought you’d,

Angie Spice (29:37):
I knew, look, I’ve always known I’ll be creating stories or comics was just a matter of time, but I kind of got a bit, I was like, well, what am I going to do? Then I knew I had to make an effort to find like-minded people. So that’s kind of how I got into involved with the comic community. Can’t really remember how it exactly happened, but I knew a few people on Facebook, and then I found the creator meet, and then I met a lot of people from there. Yeah, but I’m introverted. I can talk to people. I can talk if I know I’m the only one talking, but if I’m talking in a big group of people, then I just shut up because I can’t keep up with everything that’s happening. So yeah, I might appear to someone like I’m more extroverted, but I’m not.

Leigh Chalker (30:32):
Yep. How did that incorporate into your music, Angie? Because let’s get onto that for a little bit, because music can bring things out. Music can bring a confidence out in you too, mate.

Angie Spice (30:48):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think doing the music first really boosted my confidence. People treat you like you’re a goddess if you’re a singer. It’s just the way it is. So I had been performing maybe from about 2007, yet 2007 to about only years ago. I haven’t performed recently because I kind of got really busy just before the pandemic with my comics, and then the pandemic happened. But I was doing a few, I was famous singing at jazz bars around Melbourne and stuff like that, which jazz singing in particular is a very introverted thing. It’s not getting up on stage going, Hey, let’s all do celebrate. And being an outgoing entertainer, it’s never going to do that. I was just performing in very intimate settings. I did a few corporate, I tried a bit of the corporate music stuff. I hated it singing at weddings and stuff, and I just hated it.

Leigh Chalker (32:01):
Did you have to sing the same song? I need you to sing Whitney Houston. And I’ll always like,

Angie Spice (32:08):
I love Whitney. I love that. I’m very careful bagging Whitney around me. No, I think what destroyed my passion a lot though, was that I was a people pleaser, and I would join a band and I would learn all their songs. Then they would never learn mine. And I’d be like, yes, I’ll do this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I’ll buy the pa. Yes, I’ll do this. I’ll do everything for you. And I just burnt myself out. I absolutely just had a breakdown because I was never allowed to be myself, or I wasn’t allowing myself to take charge. And I think that experience taught me to take a bit more control with my comics. Like, well, if I’m a people pleaser in comics, I’m going to end up just depleting myself. I’m going to end up regretting everything. So yeah, it’s helped me mentally prepare, I guess.

(33:02)
I think for anyone who’s a people pleaser, who has low self-worth as a child, sometimes you don’t even know you have it. I was confident. I came across as confident, but I had low self-worth, I self-sabotage, Taj. I would talk myself down at singing at concerts and stuff, and people are like, what did you do? Why did you say that? Talk yourself down. And it’s like I, I dunno. I don’t want to go into all that psychology, but you’re taught these things as a child, you’re taught your worth. So I had a very low, I guess, even though I came across as confident, but now I’ve completely forgot what we’re talking about.

(33:45)
I think I’ve just learned to respect myself more, have a bit more respect and just go through all of that. I think, yeah, if you’re a people, please are learning a bit more self-love and healing, all that trauma from childhood or whatever it is. It’s very important if you want to be successful, because you’ve got to keep your demons in check. For example, nowadays I write morning pages, which is, I’ve read a book called The Artist’s Way, which has really helped me. It’s a tool. Every morning you’re meant to write three pages longhand of anything that comes into your mind. It can be demons, it could be angels, or whatever you want to call it, anything, any nonsense. But it really helps me sort of strengthen my mind. So that’s really helped me. I think if I could recommend anything to anyone that wants to create, I would recommend to morning pages.

Leigh Chalker (34:43):
Yeah. So I suppose that’ll get you mind in a positive frame too, because

Angie Spice (34:52):
Sometimes, yeah,

Leigh Chalker (34:54):
Yeah,

Angie Spice (34:56):
You can treat the pages however you’d like. You’re not always going to be, it teaches. You don’t always have to be, oh, everything’s good and Roy and positive, and you’re not going to feel like that if you think people that, I think that’s the problem with self-help books that you read. It’s like you’ve always got to feel really positive. It’s like, no, you have to embrace feeling sad or depressed or angry. So sometimes I could wake up and I’d be like, F this, F that, blah, blah, blah. Nothing’s working. And I could complain in my pages, but once I can vent that out, I can get on with my life and be like, okay, now what?

Leigh Chalker (35:32):
There’s nothing wrong with feelings, nothing wrong, empathy at all. I think getting back to what we were talking about before is that’s possibly something that is greatly wrong in the world, is that empathy seems to not be on the top of the list for people.

Angie Spice (35:50):
I think some people aren’t born with empathy. I think people like you and I are just born with it. Some people I don’t think are born with it. And I think if you’re not born with it, it takes a lot. You only have empathy if bad, really bad shit happens to you, and then you might have a bit more. But yeah, I think it’s rare. Some people don’t have it. Some people are not gifted with it, unfortunately. But I think a lot of people do have the empathy, but they’re just manipulated so they don’t understand certain things in the world. And yeah,

Leigh Chalker (36:26):
I would a hundred percent agree mate, and possibly their numbers are increasing.

Angie Spice (36:34):
I hope not.

Leigh Chalker (36:36):
No, I don’t either. But you look at the news and you read this,

Angie Spice (36:44):
I don’t read the news. I don’t look at the news. I only check the UFC news and I’m happy.

Leigh Chalker (36:53):
Yeah, man. I haven’t actually turned my television on for about six or seven weeks. I

Angie Spice (36:58):
Don’t have a television.

Leigh Chalker (37:00):
Yeah, well, fair enough too, because yeah, there’s not a lot on there, man. I’d rather listen to music and draw, to be honest with you, and chill out with the dogs and the cats. That’s what I like to be with. I know. Let’s get to your love of UFC. Yeah.

Angie Spice (37:25):
Okay.

Leigh Chalker (37:27):
And when did that start for you, mate?

Angie Spice (37:31):
Okay.

Leigh Chalker (37:32):
Has that led to confidence? Has that led to

Angie Spice (37:38):
Definitely, oh my God, totally. It’s brought me to another level of self-belief, like the strength, the fortitude of these fighters minds is they’re the strongest minds in the world. And I mean, for me, applying some of the things that they’ve spoken about, some of the things they practise has really helped me. So I think my girlfriend was showing me clips of Conor McGregor just on YouTube, and I’m like, what the hell? What is this? And I’m like, I thought cage fighting was made up. I didn’t think it was a real sport. I didn’t think it was. I didn’t know MMA existed, but I just remember watching Connor and thinking, God, he’s so arrogant and so crazy. I remember watching him. So it showed a clip of him at a press conference, and he was going to fight for the Feather white title against Jose Aldo, who’s a well, really respected kind of guy in his own right at the time.

(38:49)
He was probably the goat back then, but Connor just grabbed his belt from across the table and he’s like, thank you very much, kind of thing. And I’m like, whoa, that’s so disrespectful. What makes him think he has the right to do that? And I’m just like, I’m hooked. I’ve got to find out more about this sport. And then I watched all least highlight reels, and that really got me into MMA. I think a lot of people, Connor is responsible for that. And though sense of pride he had, obviously now I’m more of an MMA fan and not a Connor fan, but that’s how it started for me. Yeah, there’s something really spiritual about him too, back in the day. He’s kind of a bit lost in his money now, but there’s something very spiritual about him. Yeah, really incredible. Some people are just put on earth to just amaze you and guide you. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (39:45):
Well, I suppose if you are looking down the barrel of having the SH one T kicked out of you to earn your paycheck, you’ve got to have an element of confidence, I guess, if you show or even have a thought of weakness in that sort of a setting, you already lost really. Exactly. Exactly. So you have to get early into the mindset of I’m a killer. Yeah, it certainly wouldn’t be easy, but look, don’t feel too bad about having a love of MMA, because I’m a nut job for the American football. I get up at 3:00 AM to watch all those games. Oh, no.

Angie Spice (40:32):
And

Leigh Chalker (40:33):
I’ve got my team, and for much the same reasons, I guess as you, I have my admiration of players and dudes that come back from seriously harrowing knee injuries in their career to try and win a Super Bowl and all that sort of stuff. There’s

Angie Spice (40:54):
Something so admirable about that. It’s like they give their whole life, oh, thanks, Soka. Yay. Yeah. It’s like they, when you fight or whatever, something like extreme athleticism, when it’s contact sport, you’re giving your whole life just for that moment. And for me, that’s just amazing. That’s like, wow, that’s conviction. And just seeing where some of these fighters have come from and their lives and the adversity they’ve been through even during the careers, it’s so inspiring. If I’m having a bad day, I just think of some of them and I’m like, well, my life’s pretty good compared to what they’ve been through, what they’re going through now, the injuries they have. Yeah, there’s so much more to it than just that.

Leigh Chalker (41:38):
Do you find that conviction that you get from those guys? You convey that into your artwork,

Angie Spice (41:47):
Maybe

Leigh Chalker (41:49):
When you release courier and he did a live stream drawing? I caught a bit of it because I was drawing at the time, and man, you answered a question that said you were drawing upwards of 10 hours a day. And that to me is conviction because it’s like 10 man, 10 hours a day is a hell of a lot to be drawing. So that’s nothing to it, man. And definitely trying

Angie Spice (42:19):
To get, I would like to be drawing 10 hours more. It’s 10 hours a day of drawing when I can draw on the page, but I would like to draw more. I spend so much time nowadays just doing Kickstart. I have to do a lot of social media to do a lot of business stuff and setting that up and organising, managing that. But for me, I’ve always been able to just draw that. It’s just annoying when you have to do other stuff sometimes.

(42:50)
But the fighters have inspired me more for how to hold myself, how to present myself and not really be so ashamed of anything or I don’t know. And also, they’re very good at promoting themselves, so I’m like, well, I shouldn’t feel like I shouldn’t be not promoting myself. It’s given me more licence to do that as well, just how they interact on social media as well. It’s helped me because before that I was like, Ugh, I don’t want to have to do videos and do all that stuff and talk. I didn’t want to do any of that. So now I’m like, well, they’re doing it. Why can’t you do it?

Leigh Chalker (43:32):
Yeah, no mate. I totally get that too, because there was a time where doing these things, I’m lucky that I sort of cut my teeth on the Friday night drink and draw. You know what I mean? Doing episodes there. But you get to a point where very much like you, mate, I would prefer to stay in the studio like the granny flat away from people. But the double edged sword of it is that, and I guess the hustle is that you have to put yourself out there and doesn’t want to. It is necessary. I

Angie Spice (44:14):
Think it’s like, for me, it’s easier to shop at a convention, but I think to actually create a video and talk to the video or create a podcast or just do little things, talking to the camera is very valuable, but it’s also very nerve wracking because can shop to a convention. But I think just getting a bit more verbal on the camera and stuff is better engagement. So yeah, I mean, it’s good to do all of it and I enjoy it, but it takes more energy to do it yourself, speak to a camera when no one’s there and it’s like, Hey guys.

Leigh Chalker (44:55):
Yeah, I understand completely. I’ve never done a solo live stream myself. And

Angie Spice (45:08):
You could

Leigh Chalker (45:09):
Do, oh, you know what, Angie, I’m coming to the conclusion through this comic journey that I’ve been on, mate, is you can do anything and anyone can do anything. You just have to take that step forward and you just have to do it. I mean, I’ll be truthful to you, people that know me best in the community for half an hour every Tuesday pace this studio before I have to sit down and do this. I get nervous, I rattle things. I wonder why I’m doing it. You know what I mean? But I enjoy it. It makes me happy.

Angie Spice (45:52):
It’s good for you to be comfort zone. It feels good. I get that feeling every time I’ve recorded a podcast for my MMA channel. I feel like before it, I’m like, what are you doing? What do you think you’re doing? You don’t know anything about MMA. You don’t know any of the sport. You never practised martial arts. What are you doing? And you’re a girl. But then I just, I’m like, well, you have to start and maybe I’ll do a few takes and then I’ll be like, okay, it’s usually only one or two, and then I’ll just get on with it. And by the time I’ve gone through just talking about shit after it, I just feel really good because I’ve forced myself to get out of my normal state of mind. And I used to get that a lot with performing as well. It really helps you get out.

(46:45)
But I think for me, talking for a long length of time is really unnatural for me. So it helps me sort of push my brain in a way that’s not very natural. And I think my brain likes that. It’s like when you first learn an instrument, your brain gets this buzz. It’s like, oh yes, because your brain loves to learn new things and it likes to be challenged. So I think that’s part of it. People don’t realise that the brain actually loves to learn. That’s why children love to learn new things. But then when we grow up, we think, oh, we can’t learn anymore. It’s bullshit. We can, but sometimes we’re too busy or too stressed or we don’t know how to push ourselves.

Leigh Chalker (47:27):
Well, if you don’t use it, you lose it, mate. That’s the old saying that I grew up with. I think it’s part of the adventure though, man. You got to try things and realistically man, like, Hey, if people don’t like it, you can turn it off. I’m just going to keep going with what my path is, man. Yeah,

Angie Spice (47:48):
Exactly.

Leigh Chalker (47:49):
Doing your thing, man. It’s all a journey and stuff, man. No, right and wrong. It’s not hurting anyone. You’re just happy. You’re doing your thing, creating. There’s nothing wrong with that, man. I love learning new techniques in artwork and stuff too, man. You discover things by accident. You discover things through communicating, like talking to yourself and varying other people in the community and things, and it forever keeps you going. And then there’s things that are so obvious to you that you actually look at yourself in those little moments and you go, how did I miss that? And hey, they’re so the little tiny things, man. That’s what blows my mind. It’s like someone will say, oh, you should have tried that. And you’re like, I should have, it would’ve saved me 15 hours, but I wish I

Angie Spice (48:47):
Would’ve done. I thought you meant in the actual drawings.

Leigh Chalker (48:52):
That’s what I’m talking about. Some of my pages taken more for long time.

Angie Spice (48:57):
Okay, how long?

Leigh Chalker (48:59):
How long? Oh man. I guess it depends on the complexity. One 11 page story. I just finished yesterday. Some of those pages probably took 30 hours of just me sitting here

Angie Spice (49:20):
Down.

Leigh Chalker (49:21):
Yeah, just doing

Angie Spice (49:22):
Details, details, detail. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (49:26):
I like living in the world. I’m drawing Angie, so I just get caught up in it, man. And I have time. It relaxes me. De-stresses me and stuff, man. There’s a myriad of reasons why I draw, and I know there’s people that run the deadlines and got to get that stuff out, and I’m cool with that. Yeah,

Angie Spice (49:48):
Like me,

Leigh Chalker (49:51):
That’s what you got to do, man. I have the luxury of just being able to take my time, man. So I made the decision. I picked my lane. I’ll be an independent artist doing my own stories and a few collaborations here and there with Ring around the Rosie and just enjoy the process.

Angie Spice (50:11):
Okay, so you are not open to working with publishers or anything?

Leigh Chalker (50:17):
Look, at this point, I would never say never. If an opportunity came forward and I guess it suited my mindset or where I was at creatively, whatever the options were, if it was something that appealed to me and the fire in me that burnt, yes, I would not say no. I would definitely listen. I always like to listen to everything. I don’t want to ever be one of those people that just goes, nah, because you never know what’s out there. But for me, currently in my life, I’m just quite happy, just plodding along, doing my thing, man. Just I guess shaking the sies out, so to speak, mate. That’s how I probably Tuesday chin wags are the most I talk, man. Yeah, that’s the other reason I do these things.

Angie Spice (51:15):
Yeah, cool. I can relate to that.

Leigh Chalker (51:18):
Yeah, I spend so much time by myself doing this stuff, man. And my dogs, I mean, they like me talking to ’em, but sometimes the conversation one sided. So that’s essentially I guess why I do enjoy Chin Waxs because I know there’s a lot of other people out there like you and I, Angie, that have plugged away and working hard behind the scenes and producing things, and there’s a whole myriad man of all creatives out there that are doing it.

Angie Spice (51:53):
Definitely. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (51:55):
And that’s what I like meeting is creative minded people. So it gets me out of the room mate, but I am very lucky to have a good group of friends and support network that do reach out and see how I’m going and just

Angie Spice (52:17):
Make sure. Yeah, that’s nice. It’s nice to have a community of some sort.

Leigh Chalker (52:24):
A hundred percent it is men. So Angie, are you the sort of person that while you’re watching your MMA, do you do commentary? Do you turn the sound down and practise your commentary to the fights?

Angie Spice (52:35):
I haven’t done that yet. I know, I guess I do that anyway. Sometimes I think everyone does it right, but I pick up on things that they don’t see like cage signs, so they don’t see everything that I see and I don’t see everything they see. So I’m like, what? That wasn’t that or blah, blah, blah.

Leigh Chalker (52:54):
Are you the sort of reporter that just explodes with rage at a bad ref decision and will launch something across

Angie Spice (53:04):
A bit more passive? I joke about it. Normally I’m like, oh, that guy’s an idiot. Unless it’s one of my favourite fighters, and I might get a bit angry. But no, they’re pretty good. A lot of the weird, rough stuff happens in the prelims in lower level fights, I guess, which are just as important. But yeah, no, nothing too controversial comes to mind right now.

Leigh Chalker (53:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that’s fair enough. That’s

Angie Spice (53:35):
Fair enough. I think the worst thing is that the scoring system is really bad because it’s based on boxing, and boxing is so different to MMA, so they need to sort that out at some stage hopefully, because a lot of people get robbed in that way

Leigh Chalker (53:53):
After courier, your web comic. And I’ve noticed that you, and there was a comment before saying that you know your MMA stuff you’re doing sketches and things like that. Have you got it in mind to have a crack at doing an MMA comic book?

Angie Spice (54:18):
Not strongly. Just because it’s MMA watching UFC is my time to escape from everything else I do. You know what I mean? Because I like a bit of variety. So it just gives me a different kind of thing to enjoy because I work really hard in the studio all week, and then on a Sunday I can watch some fights and on a Sunday I put the UFC on and I usually, unless I got a market on Sunday, then I’ll have to watch it later or a convention, I have to watch it back later. It gives me a chance to do a bit of housework in between fights and other stuff I need to do. So I don’t know, it’s nice for that. But I have created a boxing one shot, which is a short story that’s not MMA, but I don’t know, I feel like there’s so many things technically I need to understand a bit better if I want to go there. Especially, I think I mentioned in my livestream, I ran a manga called Around Roo, which is about sort of MMA in Japan, and they’re so technical, everything there, all the moves and stuff, I’m like, oh, I don’t know if I could really execute this the way that I feel like I should or would or I don’t know. For me, it’s just an outlet. I don’t really know if I want to mix it with what I do. To be honest. I enjoy sometimes drawing with the fighters, but to be honest, I’m really so busy now.

(55:55)
I don’t really always have the energy to draw them, but I like to as well. But yeah, I don’t know. I’m too busy. I’m too busy at the moment. That’s a problem. I got too much stuff I need to do, and I know all of my energy is kind of like Kickstarter. I’ve got a few other projects on this year that are going to be quite big, so I’ve got too much on my plate right now, especially because after this Kickstarter, I want to get volume two of Courier done as well and ready for next year. And then I’ve got a Hobar Rhapsody, which I’m trying to do on top of everything else. So it’s just too much. So for me, I’m not even thinking about anything extra in comics unless it’s a cool opportunity or something that works with what I’m doing. But starting a new project now, not from my self-published point of view, not right now, maybe later, but I don’t know.

Leigh Chalker (56:55):
Hobart Rhapsody, that’s your web tune for anyone’s tuned for anyone out there now, period two. Have you started that? Is that something that’s what you are working on currently now? Is it?

Angie Spice (57:11):
So that’s volume two. Volume two is the existing issues, four, five and six. Volume ones 1, 2, 3, which is the one on Kickstarter. So volume two will be the rest of the series. So I just started, actually today I’ve just got career volume one ready, pretty much ready for our print proof to send ’em to the printers. So I’ve just started today looking at how I’m going to approach the second volume. I was going to redraw some of the fourth issue, but now I’ve looked at it and I don’t really want to. So I’ve just done a few test colours on that. Now

Leigh Chalker (57:56):
How come, just to get you on a point there when you said you don’t really want to with redrawing things, is that because now that you’re going back and you’re seeing things, you are like, I am happy with that, what I represented at that stage? Yeah, happy. Yeah.

Angie Spice (58:14):
So yeah, I’m better tread carefully. So there’s an indigenous theme in one of my comics, and nowadays I think the local indigenous people all around the world don’t like it when other people that aren’t indigenous try to describe their way of life, or it was a very sensitive topic, so I was going to get rid of all that, but looking at it now, I’m like, no way. I don’t want to get rid of that. That’s my expression. So I’m just going to make it my own thing. I’m going to leave it as is though I think looking at it, I can make this my own people and be respectful about that. It’s tough nowadays. I’m just being respectful. I love the history. It’s an awful history. It’s also a very interesting history, the culture of indigenous Tasmanians. It’s fascinating to me, and I always wanted to express that, and I did it in very subtle ways, but I’ve decided, and I want to keep what I’ve created, but it won’t be indigenous, it would just be me. It’s only my interpretation of whatever it is in my head. It’s nothing more. So that was the little problem that I had with it because nowadays we are so woke and politically correct, just I don’t want to be that. I am going to avoid it. I don’t want that to stop me from creating and expressing myself. Screw that. I can go to help. So that’s kind of where I’m at right now. That was going to make me cut that out of my comics. I’m like, screw that. I’m not going to cut it out.

Leigh Chalker (59:54):
Well, I mean that’s the freedom of expression of creativity, I think if everything’s done with respect and done from love.

Angie Spice (01:00:05):
Yeah, you just got to word it differently.

Leigh Chalker (01:00:08):
Yeah, yeah. I mean there’s a lot of sensitive issues though, man, and I guess you could probably sit down and spend a week navigating the waters of how to keep everyone happy, but sometimes,

Angie Spice (01:00:24):
No, I’ve spent longer than that. I’ve heard really bad stories and it’s okay. I think it makes sense if you’re a minority and maybe a lot of these minorities haven’t had a chance to know what their roots for themselves, like the stolen generations and that it’s really disrupted a lot of the culture and a lot of the understanding and a lot of the connections. So I understand that they don’t want it’s, but then again, it’s kind of like, well, does this mean that I can’t draw men because I’m a woman? It is a similar thing, but there’s more sensitivity around this subject because of what happened. And you can never replace the terrible thing that happened all around Australia and around the world. That’s just mankind as well. But it’s just so I think the problem is that it’s so recent in history when you think about it only a few hundred years ago that a lot of these wars happened where a lot of people got killed and murdered, I think, and all the stolen generations. I think it’s still a very sensitive topic, and I understand that if I’m a white Australian and I don’t have that in my heritage, then fair enough, but I still resonate with a lot of it. I still identify with a lot of it too, so I’ll just take my interpretation and understand that it’s my interpretation. It’s not factual, it’s not spiritual to anyone indigenous. It’s just me. But I appreciate the history.

Leigh Chalker (01:02:07):
Well, empathy and kindness, mate. As long as it’s filled with that and you give your voice to it, then I guess for me it’s expression something that appeals to you that brings other people’s thoughts and teaches people that there’s nothing wrong with a little bit of kindness, mate. What’s the old saying? Kindness never hurt anyone, so

Angie Spice (01:02:32):
I know, but I think that I was struggling with how sensitive everything has to be politically correct and everything has to be through someone that, yeah, I don’t want to talk too much about it, but that was a very frustrating thing for me because I tried to make it kind of work in the format I wanted it to work in, and I was going to just cut it all out. I’m like, no, I don’t want to be part of cancer culture or anything as well. It’s a really bad trend that’s happening in the world right now. It’s got to stop. It’s terrible. It’s making people live in fear. It’s stopping people from expressing themselves. And there’s nothing wrong with being a bit naive about something or not correct about something. You’re just saying what you think, and I think that that needs to come back and it’s really weird.

(01:03:27)
Yeah, I mean, comics are meant to be that outlet. But yeah, I think that it is very important for the say someone who’s indigenous, to have the right representation to get that to be acknowledged because they have the roots. I do think that’s very important, and we’re seeing that now in a few comic creators around Australia now. It’s really good. I think it’s been around for a while. It’s good to see. So I don’t know. I think it’s good to see that, but as well, I think everything will sort itself out soon, but I don’t like the trend of political correctness and all that, especially when someone means, well, it’s like, anyway, it’s all about control.

Leigh Chalker (01:04:19):
Well, I mean, part of creativity is passion too, man. So if that’s part of the story and it’s a necessity, it’s an essential narrative to the tale you’re telling, then it needs to be you need to get it, mate. And who’s to say that may read it, not have been aware of situations like that, that it’s sparks in them and they go,

Angie Spice (01:04:47):
Someone is allowed to read my comic. Yeah, thanks Steve.

Leigh Chalker (01:04:52):
Nice to hear your views on this issue. Yeah,

Angie Spice (01:04:54):
Thank you. I don’t have a problem if someone reads my comic and say, oh, you’re a pig. I don’t care about that. I want to hear you. Bad feedback too. I don’t care. But I think I was more annoyed that it was going to stop me from expressing myself and changing my comic

Leigh Chalker (01:05:16):
Sizzle. If you’re out there, mate, can you bring up that last comment from Richo, if that’s cool? Richo has just said, as young artists, it can be a struggle, but be the best we can be and keep up the great work, Angie.

Angie Spice (01:05:30):
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think it’s tough creating in this day and age just because of everything I just spoke about. It’s so weird because comics are meant to be just free of mind, and society now is now really big on labels and doing everything the correct way, and it’s so boring. It’s like what happens to the mystery? Why do you have to say, I mean, I don’t want to get too political here, but why do have pronouns need to exist and why can’t there be mystery? I understand if you want life to be that way, but why should everyone have to deal with that? Why should everyone have to express themselves that way? It’s all about control, and you can hate me for it, but I love mystery. I love finding out about someone. I like having a conversation and talking about it and like, oh, sorry, I didn’t know you. I identified that way. It’s just so weird. I mean, sure. I’m not hating you if you like to use that sort of thing, but I think we’ve lost touch for a bit of the unknown, the mystery, the surprises of life that are exciting. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:06:50):
I definitely agree with the mysteries of things. Everyone wants the answer to things now.

Angie Spice (01:06:59):
Everyone needs to fit into a category now in every little box.

Leigh Chalker (01:07:03):
Yeah, man, I just, look, I grew up, I guess luckily enough in a family that I judge people on how they treat me and how they treat others around them and their character. I don’t, don’t tend to sit there, whoever you are, and judge what your actions are unless they’re negative, negative by me. If you are hurting people and you are creating, I guess,

Angie Spice (01:07:36):
But for me, I don’t like the control of how things should be, how you are meant to represent yourself or how you should be creating if there’s boundaries, if there’s a code that you have to live by that’s not being creative at all. That’s the opposite of being creative. So I think a lot of people get this. I think the problem is that for the younger generations, it’s tougher to get your head around. I feel like it’ll change. I feel like there’s always things go really left and they go really right, and then everything evens itself out in the end, hopefully.

Leigh Chalker (01:08:17):
Yeah. Well, mate, look, I can sympathise with, I’m working on a few little projects at the moment, clearing the deck so I can attack a much larger project that is personal to my heart later in the year and probably early next year, there’s a handful of people about, I’m, I’m not in any stage at this point to discuss it, but it’s a sensitive topic as well. That’s done from my

Angie Spice (01:08:45):
Experience. But you feel so good at doing it.

Leigh Chalker (01:08:48):
Oh, well, it’s a cathartic thing too, mate. And that’s what creativity is about. Creativity should stir feelings in people and could stir thought. And frankly, if you’re not doing either of those things, then I dunno.

Angie Spice (01:09:10):
I dunno. Exactly.

Leigh Chalker (01:09:13):
I mean, all great creative things are, I mean, God, people look at me, my favourite artist is Jackson Pollock, man, and I’ve got people that go, ah, what do you like about him? I don’t know, it just creates

Angie Spice (01:09:27):
Me.

Leigh Chalker (01:09:28):
It created something in my life at the time I discovered it. That was special to me. And you just look at the work that the individual went into the ups and downs of his life. You get into the stories and the ebbs and flows of why this thing was created or why these things are created and it’s a story and it’s life. And I guess that’s what everyone is here for, is to tell their story, man. So yeah, creativity, man. It’s a beautiful thing. There’s no doubts about that. So I’m with you there, Angie, and it’s great that being part of this community has led to, for me, being introduced to a whole heap of creatives that have all got an important story. And they all say it in their own unique ways. Some people decide to say it in science fiction, some people decide to say in fantasy, some in comedy, some in this. But my God, without it, where would we be? Maybe if more people went and got a bit of canvas and went down to the, I don’t know, overflow or the reject shop or whatever, and just started lashing out with stuff they’d feel, get it out. So mate, I think

Angie Spice (01:10:55):
Unfortunately some people don’t get that opportunity. Some people caught up working, trying to support their family or whatever it is, but not everyone’s artistically and creatively inclined all the time.

Leigh Chalker (01:11:11):
Absolutely. Yeah, that’s very true too. And as someone that is artistic and creative in myself, I feel very lucky for that because I do see other people going through things and they don’t have outlets, and it makes me sad for them. And everyone needs any outlet. So we’re lucky. We’ve got comics now onto with, I guess, so you’ve got Courier, that’s your Kickstarter now you’re obviously very artistic minded, articulate, thought, thoughtful in what you’re placing out there. Let’s veer off into the business side of things without going into figures and numbers like that. That is your business and that can remain yours. How has the creative side of you transferred into the Kickstarter business side? Has it been an easy move or has it been?

Angie Spice (01:12:28):
Well, that’s why it took me so long to create a Kickstarter. I was just not willing to do that. I’m like, I don’t want to have to go into a business mindset. I think a lot of creative people were like, oh no, I’m just not good at business now. I’m not good at that, but I’ve kind of learned how to be good at it in my own way. I just know that all I need to do is express myself. I’m a pretty genuine person. I’m pretty passionate about what I do, and that’s all I need. And everything else is just admin. So that’s kind of how I approach everything I do is a self-publisher. But that’s the reason why I, I mean, I used to work, so I didn’t really have to worry about funding print runs so much, but I kind of knew that if I was going to print graphic novel anyway, I would probably want to fund it.

(01:13:21)
So yeah, anyway, I kind of put it off for a while. I knew it was going to take a lot of my focus away from actually creating, working on Hobart Rhapsody and actually drawing and stuff. So I was a bit reluctant, but it was just annoying the hell out of me so much. I was going to originally just get the graphic novel done and then chuck it on Amazon or something and not do a print run. But I thought, nah, I can’t do that. I do so many conventions. I need to have a print run. Print on Demand is great, but it’s not like a big print run. I mean, some people can do a big print run on print and demand. It’s not as good as going to your printer and printing a good print, getting a good job done, working with the people I normally work with and getting a nice print.

(01:14:09)
So I thought, yeah, I was trying to take it the easy way out of something that I wasn’t willing to do that was going to be really good for me, was going to be a challenge, was going to be out of my comfort zone, was going to be fun too. I realised, oh, people make all these cool videos for Kickstarter. I’m going to do that. I’m going to do an animatic. So that was so much fun. So I made, it was really easy to do in the end because I was going to do all this new fun stuff like that, and I had to create a few videos. So in the end it’s been pretty easy. I think the hardest part is the social media, and also I’ve never really committed to creating a newsletter, like an email send out, which I probably should have done at conventions and stuff.

(01:14:59)
Now I realise it’s so important to have email addresses. So now I’m like, oh, well, I don’t have the biggest mail email address, mail out because I’ve never invested into it and now realise I should have had that, but maybe next time it’ll be bigger. But that would’ve really helped with Kickstarter. So I’ve just had to sort of do what I can with the reach I have. Yeah, I think email’s the best way and just, there’s been a lot of guys in the community that helped again, which has been great. So yeah, I don’t know. It kind of helps a lot of people that have already Kickstarter. It doesn’t feel so daunting. You know what I mean?

Leigh Chalker (01:15:41):
Being you just purely for me for a question. For me, this is just a thought that I have. I’m not with, for example, ring Around the Rosie. I’m like one of those guys that I just print my comic books, you know what I mean? And get it out to shops or whoever wants it in that regard. But then with Ring Around the Rosie, because it’s a four, it was decided the Kickstarter was going to be a thing. And I’m not dubious about Kickstarters at all. I’d always been in my, this is how I started, this is how I’m going to do it. I’ll

Angie Spice (01:16:32):
Keep going. Same here. Was that something?

Leigh Chalker (01:16:35):
Yeah. Okay. No, well,

Angie Spice (01:16:37):
Yeah, because I never kind of had a bit of pride as well. I’m like, I’m not going to ask for funding or help, but it’s kind of allowed people to be more part of what I do, which is really nice. It feels really nice. I’m a very stubborn person, so I was never really open to it. I was like, but then when more creators started to use it, I’m like, Hey, wait a minute. And then I’m like, oh, how am I going to print this? I’m like, well, I’ve got no options left now. So yeah, I kind of used up all my options, let’s say.

Leigh Chalker (01:17:10):
Well, it’s been a

Angie Spice (01:17:11):
Successful. Yeah, it has been. I’m really grateful for that too. But it’s kind of funny now that it’s funded, I just really want to print the extra stretch goals as well. I Hobart Rhapsody, I’m just so obsessed with that, but that is really ambitious, so I should probably leave that for another time. But that’s been really good. But I’m the kind of person that tries to do the best I can. It’s been really good.

Leigh Chalker (01:17:39):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that’s fuel to the fire, doesn’t it? Mate? Like a little bit of a pat on the back from the community and people out there and stuff like that too. It gets you humming a bit like, whoa, next one, next one. But don’t forget to enjoy the moment, mate. All the hard work to the success

Angie Spice (01:18:00):
And that. I know it was kind of weird before I reached the funding goal, I was a little bit worried. I’m like, what? I was just like, oh, I’ve really got to get it funded. And then there was a lot of pressure off once I did get it funded, but now it’s kind of like, well, are you going to Slack off now? No, don’t slack off. Do the best you can because this is going to really help in the long term. And I think I’ve done the best I can right now considering what I started with. But it’s been really good. I’ve had a lot of support, so I’m really grateful for that. But yeah, I think next time I’ll be a bit more prepared just so I can try and create a bit more, I don’t know, just prepare a little bit more. I’ve prepared a lot. I’ve prepared really well for this one though.

Leigh Chalker (01:18:50):
There’s always things you’re not going to see though, unless you go through it. You know what I mean? That’s

Angie Spice (01:18:55):
Part learn stuff. Yeah, you’re always going to learn, but I’m a hard worker. Yeah, no,

Leigh Chalker (01:19:06):
Yeah. No, that’s good. That’s good. Now I’m going to talk to you about your artwork for just a little while. Okay, sure. Because that, that’s important. Hello is K Kay. How are you buddy? Thanks for watching me. Now, obviously Manga is your first love. Is that the one that got you into it? So when you were,

Angie Spice (01:19:35):
No, what was your first I’ve always loved anime, but I hadn’t read a manga until I only got my first manga. I think that just before I started making comics, there was never exposed to Mongo at all. I didn’t know where to buy it. I’d never really gone to comic bookstores either. So I was very inspired by anime Pokemon and the television dragon. See, that’s how I got into it, sailor Moon. But there’s something about anime that has that very strong emotional element that I really resonated with as a kid because I felt like I was understood by the characters.

(01:20:20)
I cry every time I watch Breaking On because it’s so emotion. It’s so beautiful. Ash Ketchum, the main character, he is so emotional. He goes through all these different emotions and circumstances that a lot of young people have to go through, and it’s very good for children to watch. The first season that is was very beautifully done, beautifully drawn. The music is amazing. Yeah, just watching that alone, that on itself, I know Pokemon is franchise. It started as a computer game. Oh, sorry. Game Boy game. But that anime was beautifully. The first season was beautifully drawn and executed. It was, or traditional back then.

(01:21:05)
It’s beautiful. And they put a lot of effort into it, and then it got worse and worse and worse. But I think they got a different rider for the rest of the seasons and direct of it. The first season was just amazing, amazing. Very emotional. So I think it kind of helped me express myself, find expressions for myself. Is Ashley. I didn’t know that. That’s so funny. Thank you. Letting us know. Yeah. So now every time I go back and watch Pokemon, I try and watch it alone. I cry all the time. It’s so powerful for me. Yeah, I think it was just sometimes you watch something at the right time and you have that emotional connection for life. Very deep rooted connection. And I think a lot of my storytelling derives just from that, my inspiration and I started writing fan fiction from that series, and I think that got me started.

(01:22:12)
And then I think, so I think in high school I was really into that sort of first wave of anime. Well, I think it was second wave, whatever, it’s technically called that wave. But then I kind of got more into Disney style for a little while, which is probably why my style isn’t hardcore anime. It’s probably means it’s my style. So I got more into, I think for a while I got more into Disney because I was starting to realise that anime can be a little bit misogynistic, that Disney isn’t perfect either. But I was like, oh, I mean maybe I just want to draw something different. I really love Treasure Planet, which came out around when I was a teenager. I really love Treasure Planet. I love the fluidity and the emotion of the animation as well. It’s very different to anime, but it’s more of a fluid animation, more I guess frames per second. So I really got into that for a little while, but then I didn’t draw for quite a while, like 10 years after high school. Because you

Leigh Chalker (01:23:17):
Started young though, when you were drawing, did someone give you a piece of paper and a pen and say, Angie amuse yourself? Or was it the prompting motivation from seeing and I

Angie Spice (01:23:30):
Always loved drawing since I can remember painting and all that stuff. So that was always something I did. But I think watching Pokemon and all that really helped me get writing, get in the story thing. Yeah. Although I’ve always been writing stories. Yeah. But that was the big thing. That was a big moment. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:23:56):
Yeah. Because when I look at your artwork, I do see the manga influence. I can see some of the Disney influence, but I also see, and this is just me looking at your artwork, I can also see a lot of Tim sale in certain bits and pieces, and

Angie Spice (01:24:14):
I didn’t look that up.

Leigh Chalker (01:24:17):
And a fellow called Darwin Cook who used to be around, he passed away maybe seven, eight years ago. But I think they have similar bits and pieces. Not everything, but I’ve just seen just some of your stuff and my mind’s gone. I just see bits and pieces. So yeah,

Angie Spice (01:24:36):
I don’t know.

Leigh Chalker (01:24:37):
To me,

Angie Spice (01:24:39):
I don’t even know those creators, but there’s definitely, I have to look them up. But I’ve definitely been inspired by a selection. That’s my early inspiration. But nowadays I’ve been inspired more by very different, a variety of different manga car and also Western artists too, probably without even knowing. Yeah. So I mean, I like it.

Leigh Chalker (01:25:04):
What are you reading now?

Angie Spice (01:25:07):
I’m not really reading anything right now. I don’t really have time. Actually. I was reading a bit of a novel the other day, but just bits of it, I don’t know, problem with

Leigh Chalker (01:25:20):
Creating, Hey, you never get the comics and the books just keep piling up, man. You’re like, I’ll get to you one day.

Angie Spice (01:25:27):
I mean, reading, I guess the most recent mango I was really into was a guy called Shiri Mizuki, who’s an old school, so he’s got more of an older style. So I think some of that older manga style is a bit more western too. And I think that comes through in my work sometimes.

Leigh Chalker (01:25:48):
Yeah, I grew up on, I found my dad was a comic collector and he liked comic books, man. He used to search everywhere for things. And first I remember was Lone Wolf and Cub, and that’s something that back in the eighties, people like Frank Miller and stuff sort of brought that Japanese style in with Daredevil and things like that. So that for me, and yeah, man, it does have an aesthetic to it. I love the movement in it. Just lots of lines. And it’s, I guess when I was reading comics when I was a kid, if someone was swinging their arm, you’d have the little move and dashes in the back or they’d do some stop motion stuff in the background show. They were flowing. But I really liked how that style of artwork was more about line work and the thickening of the line to, I guess demonstrate the distances between movements and things like that. So see how that feel to you.

Angie Spice (01:27:08):
I don’t like clean. I try and be clean with my linework, but I like a little bit of energy in there too. I’ll never draw everything being uniform or anything. I feel like that kind of immortalises your characters. I like to give them a bit of energy, so I’m also a bit messy. So that’s probably what it’s,

Leigh Chalker (01:27:30):
Man, don’t worry about messy. My God. You should see what I did, my drawing desk yesterday. I have paint and ink everywhere, man. Even Lloyd’s wearing it today. So noticed he’s got drops all over him. Lloyd’s my dog, if you haven’t seen.

Angie Spice (01:27:46):
Oh no.

Leigh Chalker (01:27:48):
Yeah, so he’s got black and white spots all over him too. I guess with your Kickstarter and Courier, how long have you got left on the Kickstarter mate? Are we about halfway through the kick?

Angie Spice (01:28:08):
Yeah, I think we’ve got 16 more days. And I think we’re just about to unlock the first stretch goal.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:14):
Alright, well here’s a good one from the King of the Kickstarters mate. How have you found the Australian Kickstarter community with your first campaign?

Angie Spice (01:28:26):
Yeah, I think it’s been really good. Obviously I can’t really look at all of the locations, I don’t think on Kickstarter or I haven’t figured it out. But I think a lot of it’s been the local community, which has been great. Really. It’s really nice to have that support. I’m not sure though. I am not sure how much of it it’s been overseas. I can’t really check right now. But no, it’s been good, really good. Yeah, I’ve had a lot of support from guys here.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:57):
Are you finding there’s a, with this it is everyone, it’s not just sometimes, how can I articulate this without being divisive? Some people, much like we were discussing before can be, no, I’ll buy it printed. I’ll buy it when I see it in the shop. Other people, Kickstarter, have you found that with courier you’re getting, I guess without, there’s no sides, but you know what I mean? Are you finding that both edges I guess coming in and supporting you that

Angie Spice (01:29:37):
Yeah, I don’t know. I’ve had a bit of both, but to be honest, I haven’t really looked too much. It’s hard to keep track of everyone who’s backing because you can’t see all the information about them. And there’s a lot of names, I don’t know. Some of ’em I do know, but there’s been a few people I’ve told not to back because they’re my patrons and I’ve noticed they have and I’m like, oh my God, because they already support me on Patron as well. So that’s been really nice. But I don’t expect them obviously back because they me on patrons. So that’s been good. It’s been humbling as well.

Leigh Chalker (01:30:18):
What’s humbling about it that there’s people out there that are supporting you and stuff?

Angie Spice (01:30:23):
It’s just humbling to know that my success depends on the community. I am only successful. They have contributed to it. So that’s humbling. I think part of me wants to feel like I can do everything on my own or just connect to people I don’t even know. But it’s not true. I need people that know me that have already got a connection with me. That’s humbling to me because I don’t know, it’s just humbling, you know what I mean? I really want to connect with a new audience or Kickstarter as well. And I want to feel like I don’t need to depend on a certain, I guess, demographic, but there’s nothing wrong with having a base.

Leigh Chalker (01:31:10):
Oh man.

Angie Spice (01:31:12):
I think it’s humbling.

Leigh Chalker (01:31:14):
Yeah, I would say it’s a reflection of your hard work, your consistency throughout the time, all the effort. It does go to show you that if anyone has watched this show regularly, they’ll know that I’m a very big supporter of the community in general and supporting each other and stuff like that to make projects work and things. So mate, I think it’s fantastic. It also, it takes courage, Angie, and to do what you did and go out there and do it and be successful and stuff like that, mate. So you should be very proud of the outcome and your success. And with 16 more days to go, you might get some of those, you might get all of them unlocked, mate, you may find,

Angie Spice (01:32:03):
I dunno about all,

(01:32:07)
It’s good to have something higher to aim for, even if it’s a little bit unrealistic. I think it’s nice. I kind of realised if you aim for something, if you make your highest goal something that’s too achievable, it’s like, well, you’re not aiming high enough. It’s nice to go for something that’s out of your reach. But it’s nice to have that as a target because I’m so focused on say, I hope about Rhapsody getting printed, I really want to print it. And there’s a chance that I probably won’t get there, but it’s making me motivated to share the Kickstarter and make the most of it.

Leigh Chalker (01:32:47):
Yeah,

Angie Spice (01:32:47):
No, that’s good. I know. And also creating the funding goal, it had to be something that was going to be beneficial for the print run. I wasn’t going to make it cut it in half just so I get someone that I need. I wasn’t going to make it. I know I’m doing it for, I’m doing it because I need the funds for the graphic novel. I can’t just less than that either. So yeah, I don’t know. The worst thing that could happen in Kickstarter is that you don’t reach funding goal, and if you don’t reach a funding goal, you don’t. Oh, a cat person. Yeah, I’m a cat person too. Yeah, so I, I’ve got a stretch goal that’s, I’m giving Perle the cat, which is Geraldine’s cat, his own story. But that’s a $10,000 funding goal. Sorry, stretch goal,

Leigh Chalker (01:33:41):
Big story.

Angie Spice (01:33:46):
I don’t know, it’ll probably be a short story, like 12 or 16 pages or something or less. I don’t know. It’s just an extra stretch goal. But yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:33:57):
So you’re a cat person. This is, you’ve got a cat. The house has got a cat, there’s the cat. I’ve got two cats and I’ve got, I

Angie Spice (01:34:11):
Don’t have any cats right now, unfortunately, but when I created Korea, I was looking after two fluffy white cats and then they became Perle, the cat, that ster cat. So they were very key to that inspiration. Without them, there would be no cat in Korea. But yeah, I love pets, but I move around a lot, so I only got one because of that, because, and also I travel a lot. I mean, I travel a lot to different conventions and stuff, so I want a cat, but yeah, I don’t know. I need to know that I can look after it as well

Leigh Chalker (01:34:47):
In time. They’re all good things in time, but they’re rather, I wouldn’t say I collect pens, but over time I have a rather large collection, if that makes any sense. And I have a particular pen at every given page that I’m on, and I just like that pen, right? It’s just a little thing, one of those things. And my catch no likes to, how shall I say, take said pen that I’m using and remove it from, remove it from the local vicinity of where I’m working. And yeah, it’s caused me some stress. I found that pen in place.

Angie Spice (01:35:32):
Yeah, I got a funny story like that. So the two cats I had there was Kiki and Heston. So Kiki was very feisty and I would get ready for my gigs in front of this big mirror and I’ll put my makeup down and I’ll put maybe a few candles on just to get into a sort of singing mood and that shit. And she jumped right in front of me, but she jumped on the candle and she caught on fire and she’s like, and then I just had to pat her down and it was the funniest thing that ever happened. She has a habit of jumping in front of you if you’re on the computer or doing something, she wants attention. It was so funny. It was hilarious. It wasn’t bad. It wasn’t really bad that it could have been,

Leigh Chalker (01:36:16):
There wasn’t a bucket of water required or anything, or

Angie Spice (01:36:19):
No, no. It was just like a little ember. It could have got worse, but I acted really quickly. But I was,

Leigh Chalker (01:36:25):
And after give her a,

Angie Spice (01:36:28):
Yeah, it was a princess. So she’s fluffy and got all these beautiful white ve, she had a little singed patch and she was like,

Leigh Chalker (01:36:36):
That’s

Angie Spice (01:36:37):
Hilarious. Yeah, she was fun

Leigh Chalker (01:36:40):
Animals. They’re good. Alright Angie, now as we wind down the show, mate, one question that I always like to leave till last because I think it’s the most interesting for me anyway. Why do you do it to yourself mate? Why do you draw? Why do you create?

Angie Spice (01:37:05):
It just gives me purpose. It gives me peace. And I think I was put on earth to do it. I’ve done a lot of soul searching. It always leads me back to this. So I can’t explain it more than that. I am very spiritual person and I’m just what I do, I’ve learned how to balance it. Obviously I used to try and force myself to try and work full time and then draw all night. But I think life’s got to be a challenge. You’ve got to take chances, you’ve got to take the leap of faith and you’ve got to follow your passion and you’ve got to cut back other commitments and you’ve got to go for it. And you’ll find that you’ll start building up more and more and you’ll start allowing yourself more time to create. And eventually you’ll be doing it more and more and more and you make sacrifices.

(01:38:02)
But that’s worth it. If I die tomorrow I get hit by a truck or whatever, I’m happy because I’ve gone for it. I, I’ve try my best and you’ve got to live with those realities. We’re going to die. I can’t take a house of me to heaven. I like one, but I’m not going to prioritise that over my heart over what I feel like I want to do. So yeah, I mean I love drawing and storytelling and I feel like that’s my ultimate purpose. I also love singing as well, but it’s not really a goal orientated thing, if you know what I mean. I can get up, I can arrange to sing maybe next week, whatever, and I feel satisfied. But I feel like with my drawing, I feel like I have this thing I have to create, I have to get this done. I have to get a whole bunch RSO done. It’s just something I have to do. I have to let these characters live. I can’t let them die. Yeah, that makes sense.

Leigh Chalker (01:39:08):
It makes perfect sense mate. It makes absolutely perfect sense. Alright, so Angie, thank you very much for tonight’s Tuesday.

Angie Spice (01:39:16):
Thank you Lee. Thank you. That’s

Leigh Chalker (01:39:18):
All. Thanks. Anytime. Now where can people find your works mate and support you? Go ahead.

Angie Spice (01:39:29):
So I post a lot to the public on Instagram. So I’m Angie Spice Art down in the bottom of that screen on Facebook and Instagram. My web comic or Hobart Rapp City is on web two. I have a Patreon account, which is Megi Spice on Patreon. And if you go to my Instagram account and you click on my link, you can go to my Kickstarter or you can type in career the Adventures of Geraldine Barker, volume one and in Google and it’ll take you to my Kickstarter and you can check that out if you’re interested. Oh, what else? Oh yeah, if you’re interested in my MMA stuff, I’m MMA spice on YouTube. I usually cover the Pay-per-view. Yeah, that’s about it really.

Leigh Chalker (01:40:20):
So you’re pretty active out there mate. It sounds like lots of things in the works. Lots of things in the present. And at the moment going through a successful Kickstarter with everyone. How long did we say 16 days to go?

Angie Spice (01:40:35):
Yeah, we’re about halfway. So yeah, we’ve got a few special goals. Look,

Leigh Chalker (01:40:41):
I’m sure I’m not the only one out there that wants to see a cat story from Angie Spice, so everyone jump on board and support a fellow Australian mate. That’s the best thing we can do. Alright Angie, thank you very much for the night man. It’s been a super pleasure.

Angie Spice (01:41:00):
It’s all good. Yeah, thanks everyone.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:02):
It’s okay. So everyone just don’t forget that these live streams sponsored by the Comics network and the coms networks got varying, excuse me, channels, et cetera, but it also has a shop Now the Comex shop has over 100 Australian comic book titles in it. So down the bottom of my name is where you can find the shop. You can get all of my comics, you can get SP’s comics, you can get Ryan Ball’s comics, you can get even a Sizzle Comic Mate Sizzle and Doug and Kerry and you can get CiDRA perceptions at some point. Peter Wilson, you name it, you think about it, it’s probably there Dave er go and check it out and support Australian independent creators, mate. Any way you can go and see him at conventions, go and say good day. Now next week’s episode, which is episode 25, which is hard for me to believe that we’ve got to 25 episodes of this, so it’s pretty cool quarter of the way there.

(01:42:10)
And next week’s episode is someone that I should have got on a drink and draw a lot earlier, but I didn’t, but I saved him till last. And he’s a good friend of mine. He’s a legend in Australian comics as far as I’m concerned. And he’s a regular dude on the Friday night drink and draw. And his name’s Dave Dye and he tells some amazing tales and he’s well worth a yarn. He’s got a good story to tell too. So looking forward to seeing the old mate Dave, back next week. Now the Friday night drink and draw kicks off with episode 90 on Friday night at 8:00 PM and Sizzle and sped Z and quick back with the usual crew and some guests for you. And the topic is pro wrestling. So you can start drawing now if you want and you can send it into the sites if you can’t be there on Friday night.

(01:43:02)
But tune in, say good day, do your thing, show us some drawings, partake, be part of the community, the more the merrier. And no one bites around here mate. We like to encourage and that’s the main thing of Comex. Alright, so I’m leaving for the evening. Just remember, show a little bit of kindness. I never hurt anyone. Look after your mates, reach out to someone that you haven’t heard from in a long time because you may do amazing things for them and they may do great things for you. So community is unity. Thank you very much Angie, you’re a champion and I’ll see you back here next Tuesday. Alright, thank you very much. See you.

Angie Spice (01:43:44):
Bye.

Voice Over (01:43:45):
This show is sponsored by the Comex Shop. Check out comex.cx for all things Comex and find out what Comex is all about. We hope you enjoyed the show.