Aidan Roberts

Voice Over (00:06):
This show is sponsored by the Comics Shop. We hope you enjoy the show.

Leigh Chalker (00:28):
Hello and welcome to another Tuesday Chinwag. I am Lee Chalker. I am the creator of Battle for Bustle. Now we have a very special guest this evening. Now it’s Mr. Aiden Roberts, who just for this very special occasion has decided that we are going to film this in the driver’s seat of his Prius. Now, there is a reason for this, which we will disclose as the show goes on, but the man’s ready to drive. I’m ready to drive. Let’s go into Stellar overdrive Piper, the Gate to Dawn, pink Floyd style. And let’s rock and roll with the show. So people that have not seen the show, it is based on six prompting words, questions, which are who, what, where, when, why, and how. And sometimes on a Tuesday we only answer really one of them, and we talk the rest of it. This show is fluid. This is the way we like it, and we like to talk and we like to just shoot the breeze on a lovely Tuesday evening from the driver’s seat of a Prius. Now I’m going to welcome Mr. Aiden Roberts. How are you, sir?

Aidan Roberts (01:44):
Jolly good, Lee, thank you so much for having me on. It’s a pleasure.

Leigh Chalker (01:49):
Oh man, it’s awesome. I know for people at home, they may be thinking, wow, this is a bit of an awkward sort of situation. But the show is fluid and I really like the fact that Aiden has styled it up man. And the man has driven uphills, downhills all over the place, and he has found the perfect spot so that we can talk. And I think there’s some things that impressed me, man, then that’s one of the most impressive displays of dedication to a Tuesday.

Aidan Roberts (02:22):
Commitment to the art. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (02:24):
Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, it’s good. It’s good.

Aidan Roberts (02:27):
So I do need to put this disclaimer in. The vehicle is not moving and I’m not actually driving it anymore, so I’m being safe. I’m currently parked outside the Shell, Coles Express in Bexley wave to me if you’re driving past. Yeah. So hopefully the the Shell man doesn’t come and tell me to move on because he’s supposed to only be here for 15 minutes, but we’ll work with that if he does, mate,

Leigh Chalker (02:58):
We’ve got extreme circumstances going on. This is like That’s right. Has to be tough. This is a kin wa. And if he comes out and he wants to know what’s going on, we can drop him into a spare seat there, man. He could have a kebab, like a Pepsi Max. I dunno if you eaten in the car, that may not happen. But I mean, anything can happen.

Aidan Roberts (03:20):
We’ll get him involved.

Leigh Chalker (03:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The more the merrier, man. It’s all in good spirit. So this is what it is. Now, ed, I’m just, man, I’m going to start with the first one that I start with everyone, man. And you answer this and you take it however you like. Mate, who

Aidan Roberts (03:44):
Am I? My name’s Aidan Roberts. I’m 44. I’m a dad and I work at Sydney University, but I’m also now award-winning comic artist, which I never saw coming and is a great delight. That’s my current trajectory. I’ve been a musician all my life professionally for a number of years, which I can tell you more about in due course. And yeah, I’m just a family man, just sort of trying to make stuff, trying to make beautiful stuff that hopefully resonates with people and resonate. The fact that I’m on your show means that something I’ve done has resonated with at least a few people, which is all I could ever hope for. That’s me in a nutshell.

Leigh Chalker (04:46):
That’s a very fine nutshell, mate. I mean, and as we get further into the show, we’ll try and crack that nutshell. Absolutely. See what makes you up. So man, congratulations on the Comics Arts Award of Australia, the number one thank

Aidan Roberts (05:06):
You.

Leigh Chalker (05:07):
The number one man for this year, and your award-winning comic book Dead City Lullabies. So congratulations on that. I haven’t had the opportunity to talk to you or face-to-face to congratulate you, man. But that’s a pretty big thing, man. So

Aidan Roberts (05:29):
Thank you so much. Yeah, it’s a great honour.

Leigh Chalker (05:39):
Where did Dead, you’ve been a musician. So you created, because you’d be really surprised how many people I’ve met that do comic books that are musicians and just creative people. Man, the juices are flowing, so you just get that stuff out, mate. You know what I mean? Painting, they doing everything. Got a lot to say. Colours, black and white tunes, whatever’s happening make you feel good. Dead City Lullabies, where did that come from?

Aidan Roberts (06:09):
Where did it come from? Well, was it initially came to being, when I was doing the music, I was doing a live score for production of Hamlet at the Bondi Pavilion. And whenever I’m doing those sorts of things, I always dream up other projects like when I’m on stage or in the dressing rooms or whatever, something’s always ticking away. And I was coming home from that show late one night, and I was on a train going across the Harbour Bridge, and I remember looking down at the lights of the boats in the harbour, and for some reason I just had this image of the city going dark, and these little boats being the very few people in existence left, and they were sort of searching the remains of this city for a way forward or sort of sanctuary. I don’t know. I just had that image.

(07:21)
I was like, man, that’s cool. And it just gave me this idea for just writing a thing, a short story. I think it was a series of short stories about people, just a few people or maybe just even one person preparing for and witnessing the end of a civilization and where they were going to go next. That was the extremely vague, nebulous idea that came to me. So I went back to Hamlet the next evening and was telling David Richie, a very dear active friend of mine who’s no longer with us. He was playing the king. And I told him about this, and he says, oh, that’s a good idea for a one man play. Of course he thinks like that. And I was like, yeah, I could write it as a series of monologues. And so I sort of did that. I wrote these nine little two, three page things and I showed it to him and he really, really loved it, which was really cool.

(08:36)
He was a bit, was an absolute expert in language and prose and Shakespeare and performance and literature. That was his world. And he said, I’d like to workshop this with you, and we can come around to my house and we can sort of work on it. So we worked up this text and it was going to be that he wanted to perform it on stage just as this immortal character that witnesses the end of civilizations of various kinds, both real and completely science fiction, fantasy sort of civilizations. And then whilst we were doing that, and I was hearing him read it, I thought, oh, maybe I can make it a concept album. Like Jeff Wayne’s the War of the Worlds, which I’m sure you’re familiar with, yeah. With this great actor’s voice performing it. But it has this musical score that sort of propels it, a dumb dorky idea, but I thought you could do it well, you could do it differently.

(09:43)
And that was the next stage it had. And I was like, I can end. It could have a book with all this artwork that it’s a very seventies concept album thing. This is like 2006. I was having all these thoughts and it never quite got there. Over the year, I actually recorded David reading the whole thing, which I have on tape, and I was going to turn it into something and I kind of never did. And he was always hassling me about it. Sorry, this is a long story, but this No, man, you go, mate, you go it. And he would hassle me every now and then. Now Aiden, dead City lullaby, what’s happening with that?

(10:26)
I say, yeah, I promise David. I promise I will turn it into something, I promise. He says, it’s very good done into something. And even people would say, oh, David’s been asking about that sci-fi thing of yours. And then, gosh, it was six or seven years ago now, David passed away undisclosed illness, which was devastating to the whole community. And of course, what immediately came back to me was like, I promised him I’d finish it. God damnit, I’m going to finish it. I’m going to turn it into something, but I don’t want to make it into a concept album anymore. I want to make it a comic book. Because I thought that’s the most full way of telling the story that’s going to service this broad, fractured sort of big concept tale I had in mind. And it’s visual and and maybe I can write a soundtrack to it.

(11:41)
It’s separate. And so that is what I started doing. It was about 2018 or so, and I realised I wasn’t good enough to draw it how I wanted it to be. So I spent years getting better drawing and drawing and drawing and doing fan art and just doing concept art for this, which I still have all of it. Some of it’s really cool, some of it’s terrible. But eventually during lockdown, I thought, and I was studying anatomy and stuff just to get my craft up, get the chops up. I was like, I think I’m good enough to draw this thing now. So I chose one of the stories and I, I’m going to make that the first chapter of it and see where it goes. And that is what became Dead City otherwise, number one, which is out there in the world and won the ledger award that 40 pages. It’s the beginning of an arc that are very clearly mapped out. And yeah, it’s going to tell a really cool tale within that sort of framework that I’ve just described in the last 10, 12 minutes. But yeah, that’s a lot of, it’s what it is. And there’s all these other tales that are only connected to it by a thread that I can tell eventually, but in other mediums, who knows? But this is where it’s living now is a comic book and yeah, that’s what I’m pursuing. Headlong

Leigh Chalker (13:15):
Man, I think that’s beautiful, man, that story. I love it. And don’t apologise for telling stories, man, because that’s, that’s

Aidan Roberts (13:24):
What we’re here to do.

Leigh Chalker (13:26):
That’s what we like doing, man. This is the fluidity of Chinwag, man. You had me earlier when we were prepping for the show and you were driving around and we’ve been talking via message for a couple of weeks trying to get it all together and happening for the episode. And I was picking up what you were putting down there, and man, you dropped the War of the World soundtrack. Dude, there is barely a day goes by where I do not try and use that bloody ooh sound in some regard, man, I kicked my toe and that sound comes out of me, man. Oh, my cat’s doing something crazy. And I’m like doing that.

Aidan Roberts (14:21):
I love that. I love it, dude. It’s one of the greatest works in recorded history, I think It is amazing. And on its surface, it appears a bit dorky until you really listen very closely to it and really appreciate the art of it. It is so beautifully structured and recorded and performed and conceived. It is perfect. And there’d never been anything like it since prior, and there hasn’t been anything like it since. It’s a complete one-off in entertainment history. I think it’s beautiful,

Leigh Chalker (15:03):
Man. Well, that’s what makes it amazing is I’ve got so many memories with that album, man. Like travelling from Townsville to Gunda Guy, and that was a favourite back in the cassette day in the car. And mum

Aidan Roberts (15:17):
Great for a late great night drive. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (15:21):
Oh dude, I don’t drink anymore. I’m a sober individual. These things happen in life where you become addicted to certain things and drinking was my downfall, but thankfully I got through all that.

Aidan Roberts (15:37):
I’m glad to hear it, man.

Leigh Chalker (15:38):
Thanks man. I appreciate that. It was an effort, but I’m on the other side of it now and enjoying life. But one of the things men that I used to really like doing, and I’m not sure that neighbours at burying houses that I used to dwell in, used to particularly like me coming home at three o’clock some nights, and you just thought, I’ll have a beer at home. I don’t really feel like going to bed. And then it was more than times I could count on both hands that the war of the world would suddenly be cranking out at 4:00 AM in the morning there. And I had many moments to that. Richard Burton’s voice is probably one of how he reads that as well to you.

Aidan Roberts (16:21):
It’s phenomenal

Leigh Chalker (16:23):
And yeah, yeah, yeah. Memories there, man. That’s a beautiful thing.

Aidan Roberts (16:30):
Shall I do the opening lines for you?

Leigh Chalker (16:34):
Yes.

Aidan Roberts (16:35):
Do you want to hear that?

Leigh Chalker (16:38):
Yes, I’m

Aidan Roberts (16:39):
Waiting. All right. Here we go. Here we go. No one would’ve believed in the last years of the 19th century that human affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space. No one could have dreamed that we were being scrutinised as someone with a microscope studies creatures that swarm and multiplied in a drop of water, human even considered the possibility of life on other planets. And yet, across the gulf of space mines immeasurably superior to ours, regarded this earth with envious eyes, and slowly and surely they drew their plans against us. There you go. I’ve listened to it a few times,

Leigh Chalker (17:26):
Man. I’ll tell you, you’re bringing a tear to my eye, Aiden. Oh man. I’m loving this right now. If that Calex dude comes out here right now and I ask you do, 15 minutes is up, you wind that window down and you bust that on him, man.

Aidan Roberts (17:42):
And he’d be like, okay, sir. Okay, another 15 minutes is fine.

Leigh Chalker (17:49):
Yes, that’s fine. I’m reenacting with War of the Worlds here. I may need 90. You know what I mean? But what would be even more perplexing, Aiden, is if the dude busted out with the next verse of what Richard, that would be awesome. But it probably happen. It may, and that would be very exciting. But we can live in our mind. This is the theatre of the mind, man. Yeah, it was

Aidan Roberts (18:13):
A nerdy moment.

Leigh Chalker (18:15):
Yeah, that’s cool though, man. I guess they’re all nerds. Oh, there we go. It’s all right. Aid. It’s alright,

Aidan Roberts (18:21):
Don’t worry about it.

Leigh Chalker (18:23):
I’m not worried about it, man.

Aidan Roberts (18:24):
Stupid thing. Hang on. Lemme stupid thing.

Leigh Chalker (18:31):
See it’s action. This is action. Yeah, yeah, I like it.

Aidan Roberts (18:36):
Okay, there we go. There we go.

Leigh Chalker (18:38):
There we go. Look at this.

Aidan Roberts (18:39):
Sorry about that folks.

Leigh Chalker (18:42):
No man, this is good. I like this stuff, man. If everything was in order, man, it’d be so boring. Sometimes you got to have a little bit of life, don’t you? You know what I mean? But you know what? We missed an opportunity there. We both could have gone. Ooh. But anyway. Oh,

Aidan Roberts (19:04):
The Knight’s Young, I guess.

Leigh Chalker (19:06):
Yeah, this is true. So let’s remember. And if anyone’s wondering what the hell I’m going on about effect, then feel free to listen to the War of the World. It’s a double album and it, it’s pretty damn good. You’ve probably seen the two of us rattling on about it for about 10 minutes now and enjoying ourselves. I really like this idea of where was your skill level at when you committed to the comic book format, right? You just went, boom, this is the way I’m going. I’m heading off in that direction. This is the way. Where was your skill level at? Were you already drawing or was it Oh,

Aidan Roberts (19:50):
Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I’ve been drawing all my life. I used to draw very silly comics in high school, which any of my friends watching will remember with a snicker, but nothing, I mean, comics can be anything, right? But for me, I had a very specific aesthetic I suppose in mind is that I wanted to be able to draw dynamic. I can draw stuff quite well. I’ve always understood perspective and things, but it was people that I had the most problem with. I found I couldn’t convincingly design and manipulate a character consistently from drawing to drawing. And I tried to work out why that was. Everything looked a little bit pretty amateurs and edgy and clunky. And I had to work out why I’d look at all my favourite comic artists and go, why does that look so awesome? And why can’t I easily do that?

(21:10)
And obviously time and practise, but knowing what you’re drawing, that is the thing. So drawing primarily human characters had to know how a human body works and moves and how to draw clothing on those characters proportions. Anatomy is one of the biggest things, movements, all that stuff. So I just had to do a lot of study over the last five years of my favourite artists and fundamentals. So I just needed to bump up my fundamental skills. And I did that and I’m still doing that every day. I’m always learning. So now the second issue, which I’m slowly chipping away at the art is arguably better technically than the first. But yeah, it’s always evolving and changing and improving. But I was good enough to draw some cool looking stuff, but it, I wanted it to have an authenticity and put a believability when you look at it. So like watching a movie, you don’t question what you’re looking at if all the elements are in place, you just enjoy it. And so I wanted it to be slick and stylish and look great. So I knew I had a bit more work to do before I could get it there.

Leigh Chalker (22:52):
Man, the commitment to the cause that you’re talking about is amazing because I haven’t read the comic book. I haven’t been lucky enough to get my hands on it to read it. But we have shared artwork and I’ve seen some of your artwork and stuff and it is beautiful, man.

Aidan Roberts (23:12):
Thank you.

Leigh Chalker (23:13):
It’s lovely. I was quite taken aback by it, as obviously a lot of other people were because you don’t just flippantly get given a ledger award, man, the number one thing, you know what I mean? You’ve got to have a bit of something going for you. But the one thing that you’ve already shown me, man, is the commitment to your cause. I love the fact too, man, because I think for someone that draws as I do, one of the things that I gravitate to in other people that draw as well is, man, you are always learning. It’s like you never know where you’re going to learn from. It’s like you’ve always got, even a painting can teach you something, even if it’s got absolutely nothing to do with the genre that you’re actually drawing, it can still spark motivation and idea. Anything in your mind And people watching, I love people watching men. Sometimes people might think I’m a bit weird, but I like to have a cigarette every now and then and go and sit down and just watch people because you learn things. Because one thing is, man, I reckon is like body’s weird.

(24:22)
They are. I mean, you can look at a body and no offence to anyone with them. I have a particular body that I’m thinking of, to give you an example at this time, I’m not going to mention the person. I dunno who the person is. They were just someone that was randomly walking along and did that weird. When you’re sitting at a park, not necessarily at a park bench, but you’re out and about somewhere and you’re just chilling, it’s taking it in there. And there’s someone a bit like, you know how pigeons always look busy, even though they’ve got nothing to do. Pigeons are busy men, they always look like they got some to be and shit. They’re always moving. Well, you get people that even though they’re casually walking along the path, they’ve obviously got somewhere in their mind to go and that’s okay too.

(25:05)
But they get that point where they’re walking and their or their front of their foot, that’s the whole, and they do that weird misstep and they look around that no one is watching, does anyone see me? I’m not cool anymore. And like her and my $500 designer gym shit that I’m just going to get. That’s cool. And then as they’re walking around, they’re doing weird movements, man. And you get ’em on particular angles. And this one particular individual, I was looking at them, this is only a fortnight ago, asking how the fucking hell have you got your body into that shape? But they did. So I’m ever a learning man.

Aidan Roberts (25:55):
Yeah, everybody is different and unique. There is an average standard I suppose, when you are looking at learning the proportions of a human body, they vary so wildly. So you have to sort of start with the reasonably fit, not yet middle aged classic human figure is the best place to start learning how the bits all fit together. And then you can break those rules and exaggerate things. So if I need to draw a character who is say very hunched over or very fat or has some really defining physical characteristic that you need to keep consistent, you have to think, why is it doing that? Why are they really hunched over?

(27:09)
Is something going on in their spine or is it something to do with their front or whatever? Understanding what’s happening and why it’s doing that gives you a little catalogue of clues to use when you’re drawing them. So I mean, my character in Dead City, otherwise, the central character Eleanor is a 30 something Hispanic ish human woman with dark hair, fairly easy, recognisable sort of person to draw, and she doesn’t have any pronounced disability or anything to get in the way of her being a perfectly free flowing human. So I guess I’ve chosen an easy character to draw in that regard.

(28:08)
But yeah, it’s an interesting, and lately I’ve been, I mean I look at the way anything natural moves all the time and go, oh, that’s interesting. I like watching dogs because dogs, some of them are really bred to not move efficiently. There’s some that are these unbelievable hunters and the way their muscles fall and move and I find fascinating. So I’m trying to draw a lot of animals lately, and that can again, inform both human and non-human characters that you may draw down the track always learning, taking note of how things work and move, how things fall and how they explode and stuff. You’ve got to think of everything when you’re drawing a comic, especially if you’re doing it all yourself. You have to think about how the whole universe around the action works and why it’s like that. You don’t have to, you can draw a very surreal, figurative, minimalist comic, I guess I’m not going for that. I’m going for cinematic, realistic, magical realism sort of thing.

(29:25)
So anyway, so lots of wrap that up. I’m always paying attention to real world physics and cause effect and applying it to whatever I’m drawing. And a good way to practise that is to draw people in the park, see someone who looks a bit odd, that’s cool. If they stay where they are for five minutes and they have a sketchbook is bang, a quick gesture sketch we call it. That can be very satisfying and really good practise. I used to do that when I was travelling with a show I was doing all over the world. Instead of taking a photo somewhere, I’d stop and draw it. I had time, didn’t have a wife and a child. I thankfully do now out. So I had the time to just sit there. I’m going to sit there and draw that for half an hour. It’s a great way to engage with what you’re looking at and form memories and stuff. Anyway,

Leigh Chalker (30:30):
It’s a great way to, no, this is a beautiful train of thought man, because I too mean predominantly I draw comic book stuff, but I mean, I do quite enjoy drawing intuitive things, I guess symbolic things, you know what I mean? That means something to me that don’t necessarily mean things to anyone else. But I have often found that my comic books over time, and this is just, I gravitate to nature, but I’ve always lived in a small city. I don’t particularly like cities, but I see, I guess in its own way, you got your trees and your roots and nature and things like that. But then at the same time, in a visual sense, I can also see cords and wires taking on a similar shape and form and things like that. And I like to incorporate those sorts of things, like the good and the bad, the duality of imagery and stuff like that. That’s predominantly why I like black and white artwork, man, because I find black and white artwork is real balls to the wall sort of shit. You know what I mean? You can’t make mistakes with that. Is that someone backing in?

Aidan Roberts (31:50):
No, no, no. I actually had to just open the window

Leigh Chalker (31:55):
To That’s alright, get there. You might pass out. That’d be a short interview. Don’t do that to us, man.

Aidan Roberts (32:03):
But while you’re on that topic, something that I really love and I haven’t done enough of is restricting myself to just black ink. I’ve got all the nip pens and all the markers you can imagine, but committing to just light and shadow and hatching the differences in between and stuff is a nerve wracking art. And even if you’re doing it digitally, I remember someone I was doing an online course with, I think it was Proco actually, who a lot of the comic artists watching will be familiar with his stuff is saying, don’t be afraid of the dark, which is shadow is one of the most important things to convey form and mood and everything. It’s like the way light falls and the shadows it casts is crucial to making artwork read.

(33:16)
So yeah, that’s something I like. And you’ll notice the Dead City lullabies, when you get around to reading it, there’s not a lot of deep blacks in it. It looks more like a movie. It’s got shades of everything. And that’s just how I sort of am most comfortable working. But I’m going to try, before long, maybe I’ll do one of the Dead city love by stories. I just want to do it black and white. It’s got a starkness and a sort of comicy bang that I really, I’m in awe of when I look at a finished ink page, it’s just black ink. It’s like, man, that’s real comic art. What I’m doing is sort of like, yeah, it’s hard. I feel like a little bit of a rookie, even though I’m a pretty good drawer.

Leigh Chalker (34:05):
I think you’re downplaying yourself there, man. I think you’re downplaying yourself from what I’ve seen. You’re being very humble, which you shouldn’t be because you’re good. You’re very good.

Aidan Roberts (34:17):
Well, thank you, Matt. Well, everyone has their own thing, their own style, and that is something I’d like to explore more is boldly going into the blacks. That’s something I’m going to pursue. You’ve reminded me.

Leigh Chalker (34:34):
Yeah, it can be scary. It just certainly can be. There’s nerve wracking moments, man, especially because I work on paper. I have always drawn on paper since I was a kid. I guess it’s something I’m comfortable with and it’s what I feel natural with, you know what I mean? It’s something that I know, I guess it’s, I like the touch and the feel and the scratch of the pen on the paper and stuff, but everyone’s got their own style. Everyone’s got their own method. Everyone’s got their own just their way. And I think that’s healthy, man. And again, we come back to the point of you’ve always got to keep learning, man. You’ve always got to look at different ways of doing things, different storytelling, different stuff. So I think it’s an awesome attitude to have to just always want to improve, man. The other thing is too, I think there’s always improvement, man, like yourself, your artwork, anything, man. If you stop, you sort of like a shark, aren’t you? They stop swimming, they die. So it’s like I look at that with artwork, man and stories and things. It always get better.

Aidan Roberts (36:04):
And you lose your chops. You do. So you have to keep practising . Yeah, I mean dead otherwise is actually a hybrid. The pages are pencilled and ink

(36:21)
On paper and then I scan it all in and then I go to town on it with the colours and the effects that you can do in that regard, which is what makes it more cinematic. But I chose, interestingly for DCL to use ballpoint pens to do the inking after I read this book by a guy named Marcus Mateo Mera, an amazing illustrator who I’ll send you a link to if you’re not familiar with his stuff. He’s written a series of instructional books, which are very generous and very, very in depth and very readable, very enjoyable. And his artwork is just jaw droppingly good. And he wrote one book on inking techniques with ballpoint pen. It’s really specific.

(37:21)
And I picked it up, ordered it, and it really inspired me. I said, are you serious with these cheap, big pens? You can really make good art. You can actually be very, very expressive with them. Very light, very heavy. The first issue of this was a bit of an experiment in that it has a unique look to it, which I really like. And you get that real, you are talking about that real tactility of a rolling ball on nice, thick paper that feels great to draw on. That’s my favourite way of working too. Absolutely. On big paper, I struggle drawing tiny,

Leigh Chalker (38:05):
I like drawing. I love a three. I could probably work faster on a four and stuff like that, but there’s just something for me that’s super satisfying, man, about a three paper.

Aidan Roberts (38:22):
Yeah, it’s, it’s like a poster size. It’s a good chunky size. And then when that shrinks down just slightly for a comic book, art looks good.

Leigh Chalker (38:33):
Yeah. Yeah. I like the fact that, man, so what you’re telling me there, and I want to because man, if what you just said to me is if I can correctly suggest you decided to take your first issue of your comic book that essentially has been with you since 2006, since your great friend said to you, mate, this is good. Think of it, it’s just gestated. It’s come to you backwards and forwards at different times in your life and things like that. You finally get to the point where you’re like, alright, I’m going to have a crack at this. I’m feeling all right. And you decided to go with a ball point pen in

Aidan Roberts (39:31):
That’s right.

Leigh Chalker (39:32):
That’s right. And you’d never done that before. You just, you’d read it and went, that’s resonating with me. I’m going to do this.

Aidan Roberts (39:42):
Yeah, that’s essentially how it happened. But of course I did some experiments first.

Leigh Chalker (39:48):
Yeah, it was a, that’s cool,

Aidan Roberts (39:51):
But also you have to, I realise that if you want to get something done, eventually you have to ignore the little voice in your head that says, what if it’s not good enough? I was like, well, if it’s not good enough, I’ll try again. And as I was drawing it, and I still, I’ve actually got all the original pages for sale on my website, but no one’s bought me yet. So I’ve still got this beautiful big thick wad of a three size paper with these beautiful ballpoint drawings that I’m super proud of. I worked really hard on that, and it worked. It worked. And I was thought, cool, well that’s the look for this one. I might use the nib pens and whatever. I might do a fully digital project here and there. It doesn’t really matter for this that’s working, so I just need to keep buying that paper. Same paper. So Fabian or Italian stuff, it’s perfect. I found it’s super white and very cold pressed sort of for watercolour, but it’s very, very smooth. So

Leigh Chalker (40:59):
It is smooth. You don’t have the paper that’s got the slight little grains across the ever so delicate grains in there, some of the

Aidan Roberts (41:08):
Very, very slight texture to it, but not enough that’s going to worry a ballpoint pen. But yeah, no, it’s, that’s the paper I found that felt the vest. And so yeah, I just keep ordering. It’s like 50 bucks a pad though, so you don’t muck around. You muck around on butcher’s paper and then you commit to that.

Leigh Chalker (41:37):
Oh man, if I had all the money back that I have spent on drawing pads and pens and nibs and ink in my life, I could be the king of,

Aidan Roberts (41:51):
Well, you know what though? You know what? I’ve also learned to try to be economical. And if you find a surface that feels good to draw on, that’s like the back of some printed publication from my work or whatever, it feels good and I can make a drawing on that that I can use. I will. So yeah, especially with interest rates, what they are, you have to be economical as well. And also that’s where digital drawing really is handy. And I’m quite good at that too. There’s some stuff I’ve done that I started on paper and I’ve brought in to procreate. I mostly use on the iPad and I’ve made brushes, digital brushes, constructed them very carefully out of raw elements in the great brush studio that’s in that programme that looks utterly convincingly, like the ballpoint pen. So I’m able to, if I screw something up, I know I can convincingly digitally fix it later as well. So that’s one of the blessings of the day and age we live in, I guess. Yeah. How long has it all the tools? All the tools?

Leigh Chalker (43:14):
Yeah, man, use them all. Why not? Whatever man, whatever makes it work. I mean, it’s working for you, but see, I dunno why, man. I love the weirdest details, man. I mean,

Aidan Roberts (43:25):
I dunno. Yeah, I like weird rough edges too. I do

Leigh Chalker (43:31):
Want Aiden, but I want to know this detail man. To get in procreate and get your ball point pen brush for someone that doesn’t use procreate. I find this fascinating. How long did you spend getting

Aidan Roberts (43:51):
About Oh yeah, making that brush happen? Yeah, probably took me a full night mucking around and then coming back to it the next day and going, right, I’m going to try and draw that. I remember it was the main character’s face. I think her eye was a bit weird just a bit too, one of them was too high or something. I was like, I’m just going to try drawing that panel again digitally. And I found I was able, it doesn’t feel as nice. I’ve got to say that the apple pencil on the glass does not feel as nice as drawing on paper, but I achieved the same result. It looked great. So I could just do it all digitally, but it’s not as fun. It’s a bit laborious and it’s a bit techy and you’ve got to recharge the iPad and you can’t do it in a tent. You know what I mean? The technology is awesome, but it really is for the finishing stages, I feel in what I do. I really do like to, if I had to do it by candlelight, I could. I like that feel, but, but that was a journey in itself is I’m going to make this brush happen. And it just so happens that this software that was developed by Tasmanians

Leigh Chalker (45:26):
And we were only just speaking about the awesome quality of their internet earlier on, mate.

Aidan Roberts (45:32):
Yeah, I dunno how they managed to make procreate in Hobart. I don’t know how they managed to make that happen. Lucky they did and they showed the world that they can create industry leading incredibly artist friendly tool for the iPad that works for someone like me that I’m a pen and paper guy, but it works for me. It really is an option. It’s an option. So yeah, like I said, yeah, I grab at all the things that can make the thing happen because that’s the world we live in now and that’s awesome.

Leigh Chalker (46:14):
Yeah, man, I love talking to other people that love to draw and their little idiosyncrasies. I guess I find that what you’re talking to me here, from what I’ve seen of your artwork allows me to see more of you, which allows me to see more of your artwork, which joins you together and just reinforces the fact that you are putting down unique work men, you think about things. And I like that. I’m going to go back to real basic young Aiden, you’re scribbling and you’re diddling and you’re doing all your dinglings and stuff as a young fella and you’re creative and you’re playing guitar, you’ve said that, but recently you had to stand in and play some bass for your

Aidan Roberts (47:04):
I did, yeah,

Leigh Chalker (47:05):
Yeah, yeah. How did that go? Before I go any further? It was

Aidan Roberts (47:09):
Great. Yeah, nailed it. This is my oldest friend Liam. We had, I guess in theory still have a band called Bells Will Ring. And yeah, I’ve known Liam 35 years now and we’ve done a lot. We grew up together, we’ve done a lot of music and silly stuff together. And his solo project is called Lewis Goldmark, which does sound like a lower East side jeweller from the

Leigh Chalker (47:48):
Seventies. I was going to say, I’ve got a jewel called that.

Aidan Roberts (47:54):
So listen, look up Louis Goldmark on Spotify people, Louis Goldmark and I did all the cover up for all his singles and the album and stuff. And yeah, I was originally going to be playing guitar with him at this gig, supporting our old friends of the Love Turns at Merrickville bolo, which is a great venue by the way. And and the bass just dropped out and stuff, so Liam’s like, oh, could you play bass? And yeah, so I never played Bass live, so I really homework.

Leigh Chalker (48:31):
How long did you to play? How long did you have to learn the songs?

Aidan Roberts (48:36):
I mean, I knew them in my mind, and because I know Liam and how his songs click, I sort of knew them already, but I’d never tried playing them, so it didn’t take that long. I just had to sit down with the record and write some cues out and just sort of get it right. And then in the rehearsal studio finessing the details and going, ah, Liam uses a lot of what we call slash chords, which there’ll be a chord and then the base hits a different note that’s outside of that, that turns it into another chord, a lot of that happening. So I had to sort of work out what is the base doing in that chord, all that sort of stuff. Anyway, fast forward, the gig was awesome. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. So that’s the other side of what I do music.

Leigh Chalker (49:27):
I know this may sound weird, but from the story you just told me, you’ve obviously had to use a lot of intuition to pick up and feel and vibe, like the first time bass with these songs and that. So in a strange way, man, your creativity and your intuition has shone through with your musicianship, which shows through to your artwork as you’ve already discussed, with making brushes what feels right for you and stuff like that, man.

Aidan Roberts (49:59):
Yeah, a combination of technical know-how, and then using that as by second nature and just applying it and just feeling the way through it. So I’ve always done music and art, but as I said, I’ve recently had to get more technical with my art to get better so that I can forget about it. And now I feel like I’m reaching that stage. I can draw stuff now pretty confidently without having to go, how does that work again? I mean, I have to do a little bit of that, which is healthy and enjoyable. But yeah, it’s freeing when you get good enough at anything that you can just plunge into it on any given day, that is great. That’s the best feeling. Whether it’s swimming or I am not a sports person, but I imagine that’s what it feels to be a somewhat accomplished sports person. Once you’re on top of the craft, then you can really lean into it, get into it.

Leigh Chalker (51:04):
Well, I mean there’s many, many places describe singularly drifting into promotion in a day’s work with a job you’re doing or the artwork or the sport you’re playing is the flow man. And that’s a pretty high and ultimate state of consciousness they suggest. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I would think that

Aidan Roberts (51:29):
Flow state, absolutely,

Leigh Chalker (51:30):
You could translate that into just about anything, man. And time passes and you look and you go, wow, look at what I did. That’s a beautiful place to be whenever anyone can get to that sort of thing. Because what I wanted to get to after we segued off into bass playing and intuition and stuff like that is I want to go back to little Aiden, because Aiden, you’re not that. I mean, I’m 45, man, so you pegged me by a year, mate, but I won’t hold it against you all. So take us back to, I was going to say to not show our age, but I just fucking gave that away. So what do you do? It shown that I’m like three feet in front of my head and my thought, you go back into the eighties and stuff, your little tacker running around doing things. What was the first creative, I guess, influence for you? Was it music? Was it comics? Did you have someone in your house? I don’t know, a particular band or used to leave comic?

Aidan Roberts (52:40):
It was music. It was music a hundred percent, but it was music in the context of a whole thing, which is movies. So from a very, very young age, probably like yourself, we were digesting movies on TV and VHS occasionally at the cinema.

(53:08)
And I remember that there being a piano in house being very, very small, probably four or five. And I wanted to, I think it was Star Wars, but I wanted to work out how to play. Come on, man, this thing, this thing. I love it. I’ll tell you. Hang on. I love it, man. It’s not going to fall down. Now. I remember trying to play the tune, it wasn’t the main Star Wars theme, it was one from the Empire Strikes Back, I think it might’ve been a little transitional bit of music, something that wasn’t one of the main themes, but I remember trying to pick out that melody. It was just going around in my head from watching the movie, pick it out on the piano. And when I sort of got it, I was like, ah, I remember thinking there’s a shape to that, and that’s how you play that little tune.

(54:14)
And I thought, that’s magic. I want to do more of that. And someone asked me recently, what was the first big musical? Oh my God moment. And I remember what it is, it’s kind of an unlikely one, but it was hearing it was a great southern land by ice house on the radio and thinking, how do people make that sound, that majestic cinematic, the magical sound that doesn’t sound like me and my dad talking in the car. It sounds like something else from another planet. How do you do that? I remember just being so spellbound by that. And if you go back and listen to that song, you probably see why a little kid hearing that in the age is just like, wow, that just sounds amazing.

(55:15)
It still sounds amazing. And those were the first seeds of, I want to do that. And I learned piano when I was a kid. I wasn’t very good at committing to practise and stuff, but I was keen. And then when I was a teenager, of course you discover all the big things that you eventually need to know if you’re a musician like the Beatles and all the classics and the Beatles are really where you learn how chords and melodies work together. So it was music for so long, but I always scribbled silly pictures. And then one day I thought, I want to start drawing better. And I remember seeing concept art from Jurassic Park when I was 13 or whatever it was by this guy named Crash McCreary, all these dinosaur concept sketches and stuff. I thought that’s one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. It looks magical and unreal, but it’s so the depth in those pencil drawings, I remember I want to do that with me as a kid. It was like, I want to be able to do that. And so I spent my whole life just trying to do those things.

(56:38)
And you start by copying your HEROs and then you eventually find your own thing and try to finesse that. I guess that’s where I am now in middle age, I suppose. And I’m like, oh, I’m finally doing that thing that I always wanted to do and now I, I’ve got a chance to really get good at it.

Leigh Chalker (56:58):
Yeah, yeah. No,

Aidan Roberts (57:00):
I don’t know if that sounds facetious or whatever, but that’s like,

Leigh Chalker (57:04):
No, not at all. It doesn’t sound facetious at all.

Aidan Roberts (57:10):
Taste the dream as a kid. And even things like, I’ve done some artwork for some publications and stuff and a good friend of mine, Ian, has a website and a magazine and a book as well, all censored around the visual effects industry and visual effects in movies. And I’ve done a lot of artwork for his articles and things and getting feedback from the people he’s interviewed, which are like these seminal figures in the visual effects industry. Having them write to me go, I love what you did in conveying what we did back in those in Jurassic Park and those guys, and having them come back to me and go, I really like what you’re doing. It’s like, well, I love what you are doing when I was 12. It’s really cool. So it just feeds itself like that. And in the music world, when you meet some of your heroes and you play with them or whatever, it all comes around into this melting pot of like, oh, everyone’s just pursuing what they love doing. And then it influences the young and the dreamers, and then they take it and they run with it and they do something else. I just love that sort of melting pot thing of art and music in pop culture, I guess primarily is what I’m talking about here. But

Leigh Chalker (58:47):
Man, please sir, you may continue. I am totally. I’m right with you, man.

Aidan Roberts (58:54):
So yeah, I mean you of all people would know what I mean when pursuing the thing that you love most as a kid. It’s almost like a way of centering yourself forever. It doesn’t matter what you leave behind so much, it’s more the act of doing it. Although we want to leave behind something that is beautiful and that resonates with at least one person. I always think after, I don’t hate performing live, but I never feel like I’m good enough with music. I’m like, damn, I didn’t nail that. I’m always like that. But I taught myself over the years to go, what if one person comes up to you afterwards and says, that was great, I really liked that. Or I like what you do, then it’s worth doing it. If no one says that maybe it’s worth doing it anyway, who cares?

Leigh Chalker (59:53):
I try to

Aidan Roberts (59:54):
Teach myself that too.

Leigh Chalker (59:55):
A hundred percent agree with that statement. I think I’ve met not as many people as some and some more than others. I mean, it’s, that’s how it is. And you get different people that have different drives, different wants to places they want to go. And there’s nothing wrong with what anyone wants to do in their life. Man, whatever your path is, you pursue it. As long as it makes you happy, fulfilled, whole and you ain’t out there hurting anyone else, man, then you go for it, man, you go. But for me, I was for many years, obviously I have a sister now that’s in my life, but when I was a boy, I was an only child and obviously my mom and dad had to work, so I was left with very lots of books, lots of comic books, entertain yourself, do things, I mean, movies, whatever I wanted to do. It was just a huge, as you would say, melting pot of creativity. So I very early on gravitated towards like comic books was it for me? Music came second, movies and film and stuff was a third of equal value. But my strength and what I wanted to do and love was comic books. Those drawings and stuff that I did, I still have, I’m a shocking hoarder. That’s why I’ve got boxes and boxes of the stuff around.

(01:01:31)
But the fundamental thing that I love most about creativity, and I’ve said this before and this is just purely for me in my observation, if people agree or disagree, that’s cool. Creativity has literally in times gone by, saved my life, man. And without it, I don’t know if I’d be the same person that I am now. I certainly believe that. I used to sit at home in the lounge room and just draw for the sake of drawing and spend days, man, under a tree or in the yard just drawing and looking around and just, and writing stories. And our family used to travel everywhere. Dad used to love driving in the car. So I’d be in the backseat and I’d just have pages and pages and notepads of stories and stories and stories. Man, I’d just love it very much like yourself, man.

(01:02:51)
I came into comics, my comic battle for bustle. So you’ve got some context for you. This is what I like about you’re talking to me, some good stuff that I am resonating with you because you started your project in 2006. I was drawing comic book ideas in all through school and stuff, but my father passed away in 1998 and I had a whole heap of stuff and I decided, boy, I’m doing a comic book for dad. And to this day I’m still doing battle for bustle. I’m still drawing it. And it was that long ago, and it wasn’t until 2021 that I finally had people, my friends were going like, man, you cannot just keep doing this for yourself, mate. You’ve got to put this stuff out there. While I’m very thankful that my friends gave me the nudge to put it out there, because with that encouragement has come some of the most awesome moments I could possibly ever have imagined, man. One of them is chinwag, meeting yourself, meeting people, meeting heroes that I never thought that I’m reading their comics as a kid. I’ll never meet these people. And suddenly you get to have conversations and talk to them and stuff. Mind blowing shit, really.

(01:04:27)
But I think that if it wasn’t for them, I would still just be sitting in my little studio here, man, nutting out comic books just for me because I love it. And you lose track of love for what you’re creating sometimes, man. And I think you got to be your number one audience, and there’s nothing better than getting that first person goes, Ooh, that’s pretty good when you see it in format and stuff. And oh man, yeah,

Aidan Roberts (01:05:04):
You like to think that that wouldn’t matter. But it does. It does. Because we as human beings need others to thrive properly. I think you need to bounce ideas and why people love beers and conversations, tea and conversations as it were,

Leigh Chalker (01:05:33):
Don’t take, you can talk about beer all you like,

Aidan Roberts (01:05:38):
But you know what I mean. People share and they need to share. And that’s the beautiful thing about it. Your longstanding project is a very deeply intimate one, and you may not feel like sharing that, and that’s totally cool. You can just do it for yourself. And that is just as valid as putting something out for other people to read. But I think you’re probably also the type of personality that is a way that you can connect to others and go, look, I wrote this comic. I dunno if it’s about your dad, but for the memory of him, I think that’s a really beautiful way to crystallise all those feelings. And there’s comic artists like Robert Crumb is one I can think of that puts incredibly intimate stuff into a serialised form. It’s a great way of communicating. My stuff is a little more veiled than that, I suppose. But I think everything that we do as creators has ourselves infused in it a hundred percent.

Leigh Chalker (01:07:03):
Well, perhaps on the surface, your comic book, maybe as you say, veiled jet, earlier in our chat this evening, you were mentioning your dear friend that

Aidan Roberts (01:07:16):
Yeah, yeah, he’s actually going to play a role in it. He’s actually going to play a role in it named David. That’s all I’m going to say. But it’s weird. I promised him I’d finish this, but I’m really doing it. For me, it was my idea that night going across the Harbour Bridge, but I thought, wouldn’t it be great if there was some way that he was looking down? Somehow I think he’d be really pleased with it. And that makes me really happy and that other people dig it too. That’s awesome. And I’m happy with it. So that then it was worth the doing. And the reason it’s taken so long is this is all these other pursuits that I’ve needed to pursue at the time. Tubing Bell is another one, which I can talk about.

Leigh Chalker (01:08:13):
Mike Goldfield. Don’t get started.

Aidan Roberts (01:08:17):
Well, all I’ll say is I don’t want to go too far into it now, but it’s the most unlikely things that you do mucking around with your mates that turn out to be a bit of a rocket ship, a trajectory. So that one, if you Google my name, you’ll probably find stuff related to Tubey the Bells for Two, which is a show where I, myself and another musician perform Tube of the Bells with just the two of us and like 25 instruments on stage and loop bells and stuff. And that of course became, it had an automatic audience, fans of the album, and it became a hit show. And that sort of took me around the world and it was really cool for a while, but I couldn’t do that forever. And because that is a lot of fun and that is in some ways quite creatively satisfying, but there’s more I need to do. I need to do this. What I’m doing now is sort of really been wanting to get round to, so yeah, I’m pleased that it’s happening now,

Leigh Chalker (01:09:26):
Man, I, I’m pleased it’s happening for you because man, I must say, Aiden, that I enjoy Chin wags, chin wags are like my kids. I don’t have a particular favourite and I look back on all of them fondly, but I most certainly am enjoying this one mate, me certainly where we definitely are travelling at similar train and creative thought man and drive. And I very much am enjoying this. And I’m glad you are as well because yeah, it’s good. It’s good. I love the fact that everything, what I like about, I guess what your friend gave you from the idea was that initial, that’s the go. That’s the one man. You think about that little nudge. My dad wasn’t alive when I conceived the idea of battle for Bustle, but what he did when he was alive is he germinated the idea in me that you know better than, but you’re just as good as, and if you want it, you can do it. And it took me a long time, it took me a long time to realise that everyone has their own voice and stuff like that. And anyone that is out there,

(01:11:15)
There’s a gentleman I’m speaking to right now is probably the purest form of motivation that you could get to pursue a project because I am not aware, man, Aiden, to be honest with you, anyone that knows anybody, I really follow awards and stuff. I mean, I obviously have different motivations and things, but I applaud people that get them. You know what I mean? It’s like, that’s fantastic. It’s like I a hundred percent applaud you. I applaud the effort that goes into organising the shows. I mean, there’s so many things. Again, people don’t realise the foundational building that goes into everything. And I think the creativity is not just painting and drawing and things, but it could be anything that you want to do, whether it’s cooking or sword fighting or whatever, or organising shows, shows. Now, the one thing that I would say from memory is that I’m not a hundred percent sure man, that someone, I could be wrong now. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I’m not going to get an answer from anyone. We’re not live, obviously we’re prerecorded and I’m probably wrong. I’m always wrong. Sometimes I’m right. Maybe, I dunno. Are

Aidan Roberts (01:12:34):
There going to be comments? Will there be comments coming up?

Leigh Chalker (01:12:40):
If we are live, there would be, but not now. We’re just talking man. And I like that sometimes because comments can vary off in different areas and stuff, but I’m not sure if I recall someone actually winning an award with their first piece of work to bring it out. That would be interesting. I would really like to know when people watch the show if they can contact me or siz or anything like that and suggest it because if that has not happened, then even more kudos to you, man, because you must have certainly taken them by storm mate. So well done. Now Robert Crumb, that was someone that obviously sticks in your mind. When did you come across Robert Crumb?

Aidan Roberts (01:13:34):
I remember my brother reading some of his stuff when I was little. Probably late eighties, early nineties it would’ve been. And there was a movie 20 years ago maybe. I was like, oh, that’s about that comic book artist. I can’t remember it now. And it had, I think it was Paul Jimani in it and it was about Robert Rum and his wife and their story. And I remember that’s an amazing story. That guy is like how he could become such a successful comic artist doing kind of wild and very personal stuff. I thought it was so cool and so different. Yeah, like I said, I know what I like in the comics world and I read fairly widely, but I’m not as well versed as the comic book store guy in all of the artists and how they connect. And to some degree obviously I am. But I remember his work really sticking out to me as something very different and I really loved that. There was another artist who wrote a series, Jesus, what was his name now? But the series was called Stray Bullets.

Leigh Chalker (01:15:14):
No, the book, I dunno who the artist or writer is

Aidan Roberts (01:15:17):
Though. Yeah, it’s one guy. I think. So there’s a whole thing, and I remember thinking there was very violent and very small town troubled people. I remember this is grim, but it’s so compelling and quite funny. I remember thinking when I read that this is good. This is wild and different and geez, comics can be anything. They, I’ve never really been drawn into the big properties like the big DC and Marvel stuff never really got sucked into it. My favourite comics are the ones that just live in the fringes and sort of pop out a little bit different.

(01:16:09)
And then there’s some artists who really traverse both worlds. One of my favourite artists is an Australian Nicholas Scott and her comic Black Magic is just one of my favourite things on the page ever with Greg Rucker I think was the writer, but her art just knocks my socks off. She won the Ledger award the previous year I think. Yeah, right. But she’s now doing Wonder Woman and all those DC and she’s in sort of DC there now, which is cool. It’s kind of cool to see her art in that sphere. So anyway, again digressed a little bit, but no you didn’t at all, man. Robert Rum I see as he’s the ultimate scratchy pen. Late night, put it all on the page guy and I really admire that.

Leigh Chalker (01:17:20):
Yeah, yeah. Well man, he’s one of those artists, I guess the comic book artist that has transcended into American art. He is recognised as one of the,

(01:17:37)
Not just a comic book artist, so he’s a man that threw it out there mate. There was nothing was taboo do with him. I admire that. The truthfulness in that man. I think there’s in a world that at the moment that we live in, that probably doesn’t allow for too many voices, man. Do you know what I mean? To really say what they want to say. There are some people like Robert Crumb that did just didn’t care, mate, this is what’s on my mind and this is what I’ve got to say. Like it or don’t like it. And that’s very courageous in itself mate. And absolutely

(01:18:21)
That courage is always takes a big step man to throw your convictions out there to the world mate and allow people to maul ’em or love them according to their taste and things like that. But that’s the risk we all run, isn’t it? That’s right. But it is a lovely thing what you were saying about issue two and how you were talking about as you’ve done issue one and now you are starting to notice and pick up a few different bits and pieces that are attracting you to artwork and all that. What I have been remiss about is talking to you about your writing process because writing is also an incredibly important part in the comic book field, obviously when you’re a writer and an artist. So what I guess are your influences with writing? Is it from a theatre background and liking things like Shakespeare or were you appreciate novels or your comic books? Yeah, writing content,

Aidan Roberts (01:19:36):
All of the above. I have a pretty keen radar for what is compelling writing and what doesn’t work and most people do. When you see a movie that feels wrong, something about it just feels hokey or doesn’t land properly. It’s almost certainly due to the writing. Writing in an immediate form of writing like comics and movies and television and theatre things where you’re watching characters do stuff and go through stuff. The dialogue is the thing of primary importance or the lack of it is going to tell the story properly. And so I guess movies and plays and things where dialogue hits the right mark is what I’ve always been inspired by. That’s a very vague thing to say, but let me try and think of an example. Try and think of an example of what I’m talking about.

(01:21:19)
Look, we were watching this show called Yellowstone with Kevin Costner the other night, and there are lines in that show. The whole premise of the show and the way it’s executed and stuff is very watchable and it’s quite compelling and it’s pretty good. Except sometimes you can hear the people writing the show and the actors are struggling through these lines. They must have aided. And I remember one of the main characters, Beth and her adopted brother, they’re sort of at war and she says to her brother, so it’s war now. And he says, the war’s over Beth. And then I was like, I know what line is coming next. I know what fricking line is coming next. And she turns around and says, no, Jamie, the war has just begun. I’m like, you can’t put that in there. I said, as an audience, that’s insulting.

(01:22:31)
I know the war has just begun. I saw what you did to him. I saw what you’re trying to manipulate. I know the war’s just begun and there’s another half a season to go. I know you don’t have to tell us. And I feel that the audience deserves real characters that speak, even if it’s in a heightened sort of fantastical way, you still have to just buy it. And yeah, I am going on a tangent here, but one of the best screenwriters I think in that regard that’s just gets it right somehow hasn’t written that many movies that you’re familiar with. His name’s Hampton Fancher and he wrote the screenplay for Blade Runner.

Leigh Chalker (01:23:21):
Blade Runner, yeah. And then brought in into the second one.

Aidan Roberts (01:23:26):
Yeah,

(01:23:28)
You can really hear it because the whole concept of those of Blader, and I love it as much as I do, the whole concept and the execution and obviously the casting and stuff, it is perfectly put together, but it would fall flat if it didn’t have this dialogue that just felt real. And he is the master of that. And so let’s fast forward to make it about specifically my book and how I had started writing. I was like, right, well, I’ve got this overarching very grandiose prose, short stories that use language in creative ways like Shakespeare, it’s beautiful to read and listen to, but is it going to work coming out of speech bubbles in a comic? No. So I had to rewrite the whole thing to make you understand what’s happening and to have the characters speaking, but only in a way that is going to propel the story properly, otherwise they don’t need to speak at all.

(01:24:40)
And so I had to really pair it back and I’d written all this dialogue and then by the time I started drawing the comic, I was like, she doesn’t need to say half this stuff. I just show it. And so most of the dialogue in this, the first book is her talking to her, the AI that runs the ship, purely procedural information that they’re exchanging. And that’s deliberate because I think it draws you into a full sense of security. This is all routine and this is kind of a boring mission and just a regular conversation she’s having with the flight computer. And then when stuff starts to go wrong, she doesn’t know what to say. And that I really enjoyed that. I was like how to present that? I was like, so the latter half of the coming hardly has any dialogue in it anyway, so writing it, I guess was like a screenplay.

Leigh Chalker (01:25:48):
Did you find at that point where you realised that the dialogue wasn’t necessary is where, how shall I say, your chops for your drawing and your storytelling in a panel sense started getting a little bit more bit of a

Aidan Roberts (01:26:08):
Workout?

Leigh Chalker (01:26:09):
Yeah,

Aidan Roberts (01:26:11):
Yeah. Because then stuff like panel hierarchy and framing and what you’re showing and how becomes very, very crucial. And I don’t like to use a lot of sound effects in my stuff, the occasional thing, but I like to just show it through. You get the impression that someone’s been shot with something by the after effect of it, not like a bang and a schlock. So in writing, but see, I sort of wrote it like a screenplay, but of course that’s not that useful for a comic. Comic needs to say panel one, this happens and she says, this panel two, this happens. And now we see this come in and it’s functional. It doesn’t need to read a play or a screenplay. So yeah, anyway, to try and answer your question a bit more succinctly, all the best things that I’ve ever read make me forget that a person wrote it and just sweep me up in it. And that’s always been the mission, is to just write it in such a way that it just has a life of its own and tells itself when the person’s reading it. And that’s tricky to do. And there’s probably a few clunky things in it. Again, that’s one of those things you have to let go. You can’t just keep fine tuning stuff forever. You’ve got to let some things be slightly clunky and learn from them.

Leigh Chalker (01:27:54):
Well, I mean nothing’s like even life mate. You can’t control everything about life can you? And being the artist, you do have to let some things go. Well, God, you’d still be doing a comic book since 1998 mate, and you’d be like me. So you’ve got to let some things go.

Aidan Roberts (01:28:15):
Probably

Aidan Roberts (01:28:19):
It’ll probably be the time this thing’s finished. I’ll be 70, but no, I’m hoping it moves a bit quicker than that.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:30):
Hey, Aiden microphone just dropped back a little bit of sound there bud. So just so people when they’re watching, don’t miss any of the important info that you say, man. So just like to let ’em know.

Aidan Roberts (01:28:45):
No worries. Hopefully that

Leigh Chalker (01:28:47):
Just your flag there bud, because I don’t want people to miss what you’ve got to say. Hey, on two notes I would absolutely love to know. Well actually three I guess, and one question you writing, you’ve taken a lot of time with your artwork. You’ve got better and better and better. Your script required work and you’ve got better and better and better and better at it. So you’re growing, you’re growing as an artist there. Did you have a particular, let’s say they’re both, they’re your babies, did you like one more than the other? The process? Did one process stick out more than the other one more satisfying? Anything like that? Yeah,

Aidan Roberts (01:29:38):
Look, I think probably the most enjoyable part was putting the pencils down and seeing the action start to visually take shape. That informs the writing again, that made me rewrite it. I’d finish a few pages and you can see a scene happening without any dialogue or boxes or anything like that. You can see it happening. And then I go, oh cool, I can go rewrite that scene to get the dialogue and stuff just right so that it serves what I’m looking at. Because primarily comics is a visual medium. It was great having the first draught of the script, a refined draught. I was like, man, I can see that that’s going to be great. But it wasn’t until I started to actually draw it that it really started to get a little bit of a life of its own. And that was really satisfying. And when I’d finally finished the art for that first book, yeah, I was like, cool, look at that. I can see it now. I can see that whole first 40 pages. That’s really cool. That was drilling and I thought, oh, it’s easy from here because there’s a lot more to do. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:31:06):
The work has only just begun Now I love the fact that man, I also obviously I write a lot of my work. I’ve worked with other people, I’ve had co-writers and I’ve written myself and stuff. And man, honestly, if anyone asked me how I structure my writing, I couldn’t honestly tell you man because I think I’d just do anything absolutely in any way. I have a really weird way just to let you know how I work When we’re talking, I sort of come in with ideas. I hit the paper knowing what I want to do and sort of build from there. Sometimes I have blocks of script, other times I just have layouts of pages. But I know in my mind what I want to put there, but I’m just not at that particular point in time eloquent enough I guess, or articulate enough to do the script and decide to come back later. So in a really strange way, I’m a bit like hodgepodge like that man. I admire people that have their particular methods of where I’ve seen scripts in screenplay form, I’ve seen scripts in panel form. I think for me, I love how you are discussing the creative process because there’s so many different creative processes and I don’t really think there’s one that’s right.

(01:32:36)
In general, I think it’s whatever works for the person that is doing the creating. You know what I mean? And because God, if you saw my script, you’d be looking at me going like, Lee, what the fuck is this man? You know what I mean? But in my mind it all works. But that’s just how my brain works. But alright man, I’m going to Blade Runner. Let’s go back to Blade Runner because as children of the eighties, I grew up with families and being a single child that when my uncles who were 10 years older than me, so they’re sort of older brothers and my aunts are similar ages, you know what I mean? They had this little kid running around and it was like, oh, go away. We’ve got boyfriends and girlfriends now rack off. So they used to get videos out and stuff like that from video Easy and blockbuster and blah, blah, blah, whatever else.

(01:33:27)
They were calling things. And my mom and dad were pretty cool. They were always working and stuff, but they were very open with what I was watching. Some of the things I was watching, you probably wouldn’t let your kids watch now, but you know what I mean. I was with my uncles and my aunts, you got a whole myriad of things that you could watch. Blade Runner was one of the things that gravitated to me as a child Dune was David Lynch’s Dune was one that gravitated to me as a child. Please don’t get me started on Dune. I’m obsessed with it and people that have watched the show enough are probably going, oh my God, don’t get him started on Dune. So I’m going to stop that there. Just check out David Lynch’s

Aidan Roberts (01:34:07):
Dune.

Leigh Chalker (01:34:08):
That’s right. That’s right now man, your sound’s just dropping out there. So what’s that while you, why?

Aidan Roberts (01:34:19):
Because I’ve had to turn the car on to keep my battery from coning out.

Leigh Chalker (01:34:27):
What

Aidan Roberts (01:34:27):
It’s doing is it won’t let me have the car on without my phone connected to the Bluetooth system. So can you hear me enough for a couple of minutes like this? Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:34:40):
Yep, can do. So what we’ll do is we’ll come to the Blade Runner, whoop in the Blade Runner. Now as a child of the eighties, do you prefer Blade Runner with the narration? Do you prefer the director’s cut that came out years later with no narration? Or do you prefer the 2007 final cut that Ridley Scott went back in and did? And the big question here, do you think decade is a replicant? Let’s just take 2049 out of it for a little while and let’s just stay in the eighties.

Aidan Roberts (01:35:23):
Okay. And just double checking. You can hear me?

Leigh Chalker (01:35:26):
Yep.

Aidan Roberts (01:35:27):
Okay, good. I think I prefer, the version I grew up with was the director’s cut, which came out on video in 1992. I think

(01:35:43)
That was the version that I saw first when I was 13. And that was perfect. Then I became aware that there were other versions of the movie. It wasn’t as easy to come across these things in the nineties as it is now, but I knew there was this theatrical version that had this horrible happy driving into the sunset ending and this boneheaded Raymond Chandler voiceover thing. And I really wanted to see it. I was like, I want to see if that works. But you couldn’t find it anywhere. And so the first time I’d seen that was in that DVD release 20 years ago maybe where all five version or 2007 it was. Yeah. So all five versions were included. I I watched it. I thought, yeah, for me it doesn’t work because I don’t need to hear what decades thinking after his met Rachel in the Tyrell Corporation.

(01:37:09)
I don’t need to hear him talk about that because we just saw it. And I want to think about that for myself. I’d much rather watch his face through the window of the spinner, digest it all. And so I feel like the movie, it wasn’t allowed to breathe with that horrible voiceover on it and Paris and Ford hated it and you can hear it in the performance and I think Ridley Scott hated it. So from that perspective, the director’s cut absolutely wins. And then the final cut, I like what he did. He shifted a couple of things and to clarify things a little bit. Sure, I can see that fixed up a couple of visual effects, which is a bit naughty but worked fine. It’s a beautiful version of the movie, but I think the director’s cut is the one, is deck a replicant? I’m in the camp of absolutely not.

Leigh Chalker (01:38:11):
He’s

Aidan Roberts (01:38:11):
Absolutely not a because why? How does that serve the story of him falling in love with the very thing he’s supposed to destroy if he is one himself? That doesn’t make any sense to me that flat blinds, it doesn’t provide any friction for what he’s going through. And also he’s not a very good blade run, not a very good replicant if he is one because Brian pulls him back from retirement and says, I need you. I need your magic. I need the old blade Runner back. This is a bad one. These replicants are nasty work and only you know how to sort ’em out. I don’t think they’d make a replicant unless he’s like some super early crap model that is not self-aware, but is good at hunting replicas. I don’t know, it doesn’t make sense to me. But the tantalising what ifs, they’re interesting, the funny glowing eyes and all that stuff. I like that, but I don’t like there being this definitive. Yeah, he’s agan like Ridley Scott is a goon. He’s gone out there and said, no, of course he’s a replica. That’s what I meant all along. That doesn’t work for me. I’d much rather I see you,

Leigh Chalker (01:39:51):
I’m in your camp, I’m in your camp, mate. I grew up with the narration. I liked it, but I saw the director’s cut. It flowed beautifully to me. I didn’t need the narration. I’ve always thought decked was a human. And look, really, that’s about where it sits for me too. I do love the air of mystery. I do love the dreaming that it has provided for myself and obviously you and other people that are huge fans of the work over the years. And that’s some of the greatest storytelling man is leaving that taste. You know what I mean? To always want to go back and know exactly what is happening. But that depends on the individual, doesn’t it? But yeah, it’s, it’s a beautiful thing now, mate, because you got the car on and you’re at the Kohl’s like Minimart petrol station and stuff. You have been an absolute legend this evening. I want to keep you here forever in a day, but I don’t want you pushing the car home at some point tonight. You know what I mean? Because the reason why everyone, Aiden is in the car is because he’s got a young daughter and she’s sleeping and he’s a very thoughtful dad and has decided that to let her sleep because the young ones need their time and growth and that sort of stuff.

Aidan Roberts (01:41:29):
I hope she is sleeping.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:31):
No, there you go. So you could be going back into like dad’s back. Yeah, that’s also exciting in a way.

Aidan Roberts (01:41:40):
Hey, so listen, is the sound better again?

Leigh Chalker (01:41:43):
Yeah, sounds better now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Aidan Roberts (01:41:45):
Isn’t that interesting? I just had to mess with a couple of things so we can talk for a couple more minutes, but I probably should get back home before

Leigh Chalker (01:41:52):
That. No, that’s cool, man.

Aidan Roberts (01:41:53):
But at least the sounds a bit better and I’ve got air conditioning, so I’m good.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:57):
Oh, beautiful mate, I basically thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for communicating and we worked it out over the last couple of weeks. And even though I guess we’ve had to block you in a car, in a coal service station, do you know what I mean? For us to talk and for people that don’t know you to get to meet you and stuff like that, man,

Aidan Roberts (01:42:32):
It’s a memorable experience,

Leigh Chalker (01:42:35):
Man. I greatly appreciate it and I’m so grateful for it. You’ve got no idea man, and thank you so much. Now, one of the things, there’s two things that I always like to do the best I can to ask of everyone as we wind down the show. Now, the first one, which I think you’ve covered, but I’m going to ask it again. Why have you gone through the pain of five years and writing to get these things out? What’s the one thing that you would tell a young person, this is why I did it.

Aidan Roberts (01:43:19):
Why? Because I have always, no matter what is going on in the world and life, I think there’s always room to dream something up and make it happen. And that’s how we stay inspired to keep living in this world we’re in. I find great comfort in the fact that you can create something that didn’t exist before. I find that really exciting. I think that’s a privilege that humans have over all other species and one that we should use, well use for good, or at the very least, used to entertain people and contribute to the culture of humanity. And that can be Mozart or it can be little old, anyone scribbling away that they’re weird little comics in the attic. Everyone is contributing to the reason we’re here. And I just think that that gives me great comfort. And on a less esoteric level, I just want to make cool stuff that works and is enjoyable. And because that’s what we’re all here to enjoy. Yeah. And yeah, that’s why.

Leigh Chalker (01:45:14):
Yeah, I reckon they’re two pretty damn good answers, man. And I absolutely with you on that. Now, for everyone that is at home and will have watched this, and mate, if they like your half as much as I do, you’re going to sell out of your run of Dead City Lullabies pretty swift. So where could someone go, Aiden, to purchase the Australian Arts Awards of Australia, otherwise known as the ledgers number one award-winning comic book of the year?

Aidan Roberts (01:45:55):
Well, as yet, there are no physical copies of it, but that’s about to change.

Leigh Chalker (01:46:05):
Oh, very good. Yes, exclusive.

Aidan Roberts (01:46:10):
I can’t tell you anything just yet, but there is going to be, it’s going to be a book. So part one is going to be released properly and you’ll be able to find it on my website and at comic bookstores and various outlets, but you can read it for free on my substack. So if you just Google Dead City Lullabies, you’ll find that substack and subscribe and you’ll get all the updates and there’s all the world building and all this other bits and pieces that I keep on the substack, but it’s also got issue one there to read for free right now. So that’s where to start.

Leigh Chalker (01:47:02):
So they can read issue one on your substack, but they can also get a little bit of an inkling of how your brain worked with things and background.

Aidan Roberts (01:47:16):
I’ve used the Substack as kind of like the DVD extras sort of thing. It’s got quite a wealth of process and concept artwork and even music and writing and all sorts of stuff. So please subscribe and go back and read all the posts. And if you’re interested, there’s a lot there for you to read. And you can order a print if you like, and you can read the first issue right now.

Leigh Chalker (01:47:50):
Where do people get your beautiful artwork, man with ballpoint pen that we were talking about before, that you haven’t got rid of any of these pages. We want to get some pages out there. There’s original

Aidan Roberts (01:48:00):
Collection. I appreciate the chance for a plug. Well go to my website, which is aidan roberts illustration.com. It’s Aidan A-I-D-A-N roberts illustration.com, and you’ll find it and you can have a look at all my other stuff too that I’ve done, which is not this. So please check those two things out.

Leigh Chalker (01:48:27):
Excellent mate, thank you so very, very much for this evening. And man, I’ve enjoyed this immensely. Aiden, I certainly hope that I do get the opportunity to have a chat with you again, man.

Aidan Roberts (01:48:42):
Oh, me too, mate. And let’s stay in touch. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you. Thanks so much for having me on. It’s a great pleasure for me. So thank you.

Leigh Chalker (01:48:52):
Yeah, no, wicked mate. Lovely. I love it. Thank you. And mate, congratulations and I wish you every success, man. Alright, so

Aidan Roberts (01:49:01):
That’s very kind man. Thank you so much.

Leigh Chalker (01:49:04):
No problem. Alright everyone. So that was Aiden, and go and check it out. You know where you can find him. You see what the man’s all made up about and he’s cool dude. And his artwork’s cool. Everything about, it’s cool, man. It’s all good. So hey, don’t forget that the show tonight has been sponsored by the Comic Shop. They’ve got over a hundred Australian comic book titles in there. You can jump on that website, Friday Night Drink and draws back. There’s the panel comic thing with on Thursday nights with Ed Kiley and the crew. There’s varying people showing their artwork and stuff at different times. You can stay updated if you like and subscribe the channel and all those likes and subscriptions and stuff help the Internety thingies and the Webby and increase numbers and make all this content more available to everyone that enjoys comic books and meeting creators and watching people draw and all of the things that make the world go round and make us all happy.

(01:50:09)
So I am going to wish you all the best. I’m going to wish Aidan all the best and just everyone remember that mental health is something that’s close to my heart. I always try and plug or make people aware at the end of these shows you haven’t heard from one of your mates or a family member for a little while, send them a text, pick up the phone, give them a ring because just that little effort can put a smile on their face, can change your situation. You never know. It may even save a life somewhere down the track so it doesn’t hurt and it doesn’t cost anything to be kind. So reach out, take care, look after yourselves and community is unity. See you later. See you buddy.

Aidan Roberts (01:51:03):
Peace man. Thanks so much.

Voice Over (01:51:07):
This show is sponsored by the Comex Shop. Check out comex.cx for all things Comex and find out what Comex is a.