Ben Hutchings

Voice Over (00:03):
This show is sponsored by The Comics Shop. Welcome to Tuesday Chinwag with your host Lee Chalker, writer, artist, and creator of the Comic series Battle for Basel.

Leigh Chalker (00:26):
Good day. Welcome to another episode of Tuesday Chin Waggon. And I do have to tell you, I was a little bit surprised by that new introduction. It always sort of makes me feel like I’m tad redundant, introducing myself. But as, uh, the voice said, I’m Lee Chalker and I’m the creator of Battle for Bustle, publisher Comic Studios. And, uh, you know, we’re back for another episode, Tuesday, chin Wax. So the best thing you can do is like, and subscribe the, uh, channel. So that helps the, uh, algorithms and the tree and the community grow and, uh, gets more of this content out into the world, into the audiences. Uh, for anyone that hasn’t seen the show, the show is loosely based on who, what, where, when, why, and how. And, uh, it’s fluid. So I like fluid, I like chatting. That’s what the Chinwag is about. So I’m gonna stop myself there because we’re gonna do a lot of chatting tonight. ’cause, uh, the next guest I’ve just had the pleasure of meeting and I’m very excited about meeting him. He’s got a, a very long resume that’s, uh, if no one knows who this man is, you’re about to find out. So, oh, welcome to the Chinwag family. Mr. Ben Hutchings. How are you, sir? Thank you.

Ben Hutchings (01:32):
Great, great, great.

Leigh Chalker (01:34):
Yeah, that’s cool man. I’m very happy that you’re here. I’m glad we could organise it. Very grateful and very excited. I even had a shave for you, mate, so, um, oh,

Ben Hutchings (01:43):
Thank you.

Leigh Chalker (01:44):
That’s all right. Fresh to go. Streamlined. Do you know how it

Ben Hutchings (01:47):
Is mine on as a sign of respect?

Leigh Chalker (01:50):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we do try a place

Ben Hutchings (01:53):
To show respect.

Leigh Chalker (01:55):
Yeah, man. Well, you know, that’s cool because like we do, uh, you know, like try and maintain, uh, as much hair as we can in the show. And that’s just due to my lack of it. So, um, you know, like if you can, if you can bring the hair, then we’re off to Yeah,

Ben Hutchings (02:11):
I’ve got all of it. Look at that too much.

Leigh Chalker (02:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I’m very envious, man. I’m very envious, but, you know, this is how it is. So without further ado, I am going to rip into our first and probably only ’cause it is fluid, Ben. So, you know, like, but uh, look, let’s push me outta the way and let’s get onto

Ben Hutchings (02:34):
Who, uh, let’s see if I can do this.

Leigh Chalker (02:43):
<laugh>. Oh yeah, there you are. In that little yellow box

Ben Hutchings (02:48):
Patching. Oh, I should explain. The Squish Face Studio is, um, it’s a studio that me and my friends started about oh two, I’ll be 10 or 11 years ago now, down here in Melbourne, out of a love for Melbourne, and a love for being around other cartoonists, other comic artists. So we started Squish Face Studio, which was a little collective, little building, little, um, studio, little room. And we just went there and Drew and, uh, so ever since then, I, you know, put that in there. Squish Face Studio. It’s still going. Um, it’s a different room now. It’s a bit different now, but yeah, it, it, and it’s also, uh, what I call my publishing endeavours and not just me, other, other members of the studio, um, make books, uh, squish face studio books. So that’s kind of what it is. It’s like a little collective, I guess. But also it’s what we call our comic publishing. Hmm. I, I

Leigh Chalker (03:47):
I like that, ma’am. ’cause um, that was, that was a, oh, Nick May, looking forward to this. Have a good one, gentleman. And, uh, Kay. Belmore first. She’s not first. She’s

Ben Hutchings (03:57):
First. She’s not first. She’s second. Oh,

Leigh Chalker (03:59):
Second. Oh, well, we’ll let you go with first. Anyway. Who’s keeping count here? Ben Sullivan. And absent. Hello? Hey,

Ben Hutchings (04:07):
Ben. No, no. Ben.

Leigh Chalker (04:09):
Ben is a master. Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (04:11):
You know this Ben. The other Ben. Yeah, he’s great.

Leigh Chalker (04:14):
I do know the other Ben. I know the other Ben quite well, mate. He’s a, he’s a mate of mine. So, um, there’s, there’s a few people that, you know, like, uh, we may, you know, like, sort of, sort of know. Um, alright, so Ben, I guess, um, we’ll get to, you know, ’cause Chin wags, as I was saying, um, pre show are about, um, you know, your story. So, you know, you’ve, you’ve already said you’ve got a love of Melbourne, you, uh, you know, you love your cartooning and things like that. And you know, like you’ve obviously, um, you know, it’s a passion because, um, j we’ll, we’ll get to this later on, but, uh, I just wanna let people know that, uh, this beautiful book will be coming out eventually and, uh, it very shortly. And, uh, Ben’s artwork is, uh, pretty good. Like, it’s superb. Like, I was looking at it today again. Oh, you know, like, uh, look at this man. Go. He’s very good. Um, but we’ll get to that. We’ll get to that. But Ben, let’s go back to Little Ben. Alright. And, um, and, uh, whereabouts did Little Ben grow up and, uh, you know, like lead us through the things that caught your attention? Who, who, uh, led who began this journey for you, mate? Like when you

Ben Hutchings (05:30):
Sure. Um, it was a long time ago. Um, but I was a little boy and in the eighties and even Littler in the seventies, but normal boy size in the eighties. And I lived in Canberra, so I was sort of grew up in Canberra, which is a very quiet, really, I love Canberra. It’s a city, but it’s very quiet there and not too many people. Um, and I didn’t really care about cos I love drawing. I love drawing funny drawings. And I would fill up these giant old work diaries my dad would bring home with funny drawings just in bio and stuff. And funny little characters and things. And flip books as well, because I loved animation as well. So that’s how I started drawing. Just, just drawing madly cartoons. I didn’t care about comics. I had, uh, comic, you know, those, the, you know, you’ll have like Archie comics lying around on the floor.

(06:20)
You don’t, you don’t really care. And, or like Richie Rich and those ones from, from, from that time, Donald Ducks, maybe with ripped covers, that sort of thing. You don’t really care. But then, um, like when I discovered, um, like British comics, um, for the first time as a maybe 10 years old, something, BO and, and, and those kinds of ones, man, suddenly something clicked because I really love those comics. Like, I love them so much. Like they were speaking to me. There’s something a bit, it’s hard to say. What do you, do? You know the comics? I mean the, the, the, the funny British comics b

Leigh Chalker (06:52):
Know, know the comics you mean, mate? Yes. So I had a father that collected comics and he collected basically anything that he could get his hands on. Yeah. And, uh, I’ve said this in the show before, but, so, you know, my, the Chalker side of my family come from Gunda guy. Right. So I’ve spent, um, quite a lot of time down in the Riverina and Canberra and stuff like that. Yeah. And, uh, one of the first introductions I had to Bino and lots of comics like that was, uh, underneath my Nan’s house. Uh, my dad kept boxes that he’d stored. Um, and one of our journeys down there when I was, oh man, I don’t know, maybe seven or eight or so, it was to go and have a dig through all of these comics and man, there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and it blew my mind. So I understand where you come from with that hook. Just getting,

Ben Hutchings (07:43):
Was that like a sudden thing that one time, one time you went there pretty much and you worked

Leigh Chalker (07:48):
With the whole

Ben Hutchings (07:49):
That’s

Leigh Chalker (07:49):
Amazing. First artist I saw was my granddad, and that got me in the drawing. And then it was a trip a few years later to Gunda Guy where I saw these things stapled together and, you know, like, whoa. Wow. And basically I spent the whole, uh, Alison loving this chat with Ben, thank you Alison, for watching me. Um, and uh, yeah, that was the first time, man, that that was, that was it for me. Comic books all the way. So

Ben Hutchings (08:18):
That must be an amazing memory. Christ. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (08:21):
It’s man. Yeah,

Ben Hutchings (08:23):
It, it, it was a bit different for me, right. Because, um, they were few and far between. I couldn’t find them anywhere. They would be in the newsagent, right? Oh, I should say. Yeah. The, the British comics flipped me over, got me suddenly interested in comics and got me interested in, in all comics. Suddenly I really cared about those ripped up little Archies and stuff on the ground, you know, I kept them all now in Pristine. Like, they were so valuable. And the only comics around for me, uh, you would go to the news agents and, and you’d go to the corner and there’d be the comics section with pretty bad variety of comic, maybe five comics and, and, and different ones. They wouldn’t always be the same ones. You’d get like an Iron Man or something one day and then you’d go, oh, iron Man, where always, where are the other ones?

(09:07)
Where, where are the other ones? You know, it was really exciting for me to save up my pocket money and, and go to a different news agent’s once, like, if I had to go to a different shopping centre or something, I go move and I’d run over to the corner. Oh, you might get a different one there. It’s just so exciting. And sometimes you get an Australian one, right? Because I used to look at the, um, you know, the little writing, like the ads and stuff, trying to, trying to, ’cause there’s no internet. So you’d be how do I, who makes these, where do they come from? How do I do it? Right? And, and so I would look at all of them like that. And sometimes, you know, they’re always in America or New York or something I noticed, you know, or, or London, which isn’t any use for me. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, I want to make it myself. And, and, um, and sometimes you get an Australian one. Do you remember, um, uh, there, there, there was just suddenly a weird comic would appear. It was drawn weird and it was Australia. There’d be like a, there was, um, uh, some titles, like, uh, there was these guys doing the Sudden Squadron. There was like a Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (10:05):
Yeah, I know all them. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Man. They

Ben Hutchings (10:08):
Reprinting those, I think. And, and maybe that

Leigh Chalker (10:10):
Mean they’re bringing out like, uh, um, actually, Mr. Ben Sullivan, who gave a comment before is, uh, currently doing, um, Southern Squadron and Torn Oh. And, uh, the Dark Nebula and,

Ben Hutchings (10:23):
Uh, dark Nebula and, and there are others too.

Leigh Chalker (10:25):
Yeah. Man, hair, but the Hippo, all that sort of stuff, like, you know,

Ben Hutchings (10:29):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (10:30):
Jackaroo, all the Cyclone comics

Ben Hutchings (10:33):
We’re getting, we’re getting into the nineties now. Uh, we getting ahead of ourselves. No, but listen,

Leigh Chalker (10:38):
Let’s wind it back. <laugh>

Ben Hutchings (10:41):
Go too fast. It’s a, it’s a whirlwind. Um, um, I love all those ones too. Like, but yeah, when you, when you see, um, uh, hello Allison? Um, uh, from when I was little, when I was just a kid, you know, that’s when I started drawing. I’m answering Allison’s question that’ll appear on the screen, right? Okay. Yeah. So, um, so from when I was a kid and, and about maybe nine or 10 when, when I went flipped from just funny drawings to, to comics with the panel, by panel, by panel by panel, from then on, it was always just comics. I very rarely would just draw a big picture. Always wanted to tell a story and was influenced by so many things. But, um, uh, uh, so where are, so yeah. Yeah, that’s, that’s what it was like when I was a kid. That that’s how I just got into comics. Oh yeah. And then, and then we get into the nineties for the first time I discovered like, comic shops. And then I just, my brain exploded just like yours did in the, in the attic, in the, you know, your basement. Um, uh, just this incredible world that I never knew existed of comics, of every kind, ninja turtle, everything. Everything. You, um,

Leigh Chalker (11:54):
Man, my brain explodes all the time, man. It exploded today when I saw that. So, like, it’s, I’m surprised. Like I, I can talk to you man. ’cause like that just, that rolled me. So it’s like, I I love your enthusiasm, man. It’s, uh, oh, there’s Neil Bland and Good’s. Neil. It’s

Ben Hutchings (12:11):
Neil come up. Yeah, I know. Thanks Neil.

Leigh Chalker (12:14):
A champion

Ben Hutchings (12:16):
Had to join the ranks. Yeah. Um,

Leigh Chalker (12:19):
Oh, Bruce says, hi Ben from Ben Sullivan. Uh,

Ben Hutchings (12:23):
Hey. Hi,

Leigh Chalker (12:27):
<laugh>. This is a very exciting and life full start to a chinwag. I’m like, I,

Ben Hutchings (12:34):
Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (12:35):
I’m digging it. Like the energy’s good, like good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so when, when you, like, you were drawing like Pickies and you came across these, you know, like your, your comic books and that now, when you used to get, ’cause I understand the frustration of being in a small town, uh, like Townsville. Um, I used to have to ride my push bike all over the place, you know what I mean? To collect comic books and different places had different like news agents and shopping centres. So I’m with you there. You’d, you’d go to this one because it sold that particular, you know, like, comment in here. So it was tricky to, um, to get the track down on these things. But you, you would’ve, you would’ve got into a bit of a rhythm and a routine with where things were available and stuff, I’m assuming. Yeah. And you would’ve been, did you get that vibe of like, the Saturday of this month? You know, maybe I can swindle mom’s arm into taking me over to the west side, you know, ’cause I might be able to get a Hulk or something. You know, like, did you have this little, you know, manipulative comic collecting child’s brain working at the time? Man, like, I did <laugh>

Ben Hutchings (13:48):
<laugh> different. I, I, the, the ones that I liked were just regular, like Mad Magazine, which was always there. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. And I think there was, there was something else. I think I would just get any Superman. I wasn’t hooked on any one thing, so, so I was happy just to get everything. But Mad Magazine was the regular one. Australian Mad, remember that. And so I do, I dunno why I say remember that as if you wouldn’t remember that. But, and, and sometimes it cracked,

Leigh Chalker (14:13):
Which is

Ben Hutchings (14:14):
The slightly off version. But, um, and, and I had a subscription to Bino, right? I got one from overseas. I must have been one of the only Aussies getting it sent over from the uk. But, um, my thing was, um, the really exciting thing was secondhand bookshelves. We used to have this one that we’d go to and it was this old rickety building and it was in Queen Bien. And you’d, you’d, uh, we’d rush up these narrow creaky stairs to the top where this comic section was. And it was just in this one corner of this room, get really good at knowing where the comic section or the humour section is right. In secondhand bookshops. Right. Or any shop Right. Where the fun stuff’s gonna be. And a zero one in this bit. And you never knew what you’re gonna find. I found, um, like Freak Brothers Fat Freddy’s car.

(15:01)
Still remember that as a kid getting that was rude. It’s got swearing in, it has the h word in it, you know. Yeah. And, and it’s looks like it might be about drugs. Something’s off about it. But it’s really cool. Some are making this <laugh> and the mystery as well. Like, who the hell makes this? I’d never imagined it was like some hippies in the sixties making this right. But yeah, there it is. You know, it’s like nothing else. And, and then some fifties comics, maybe in a glass cab, some old fifties comics, and you never knew what you were gonna see. Um, as well as the cool humour books, which are often full of cartoon cartoonists you’ve never heard of and, and some amazing art and stuff like that. And, um, that was really exciting. So like, secondhand bookshops were exciting. Still are, I still get that, still get that thing that draws you, you know, exactly where the human section is, where the, where the comics are gonna be.

(15:52)
There’s a box. Yep. Sure enough. There’s a box. Go through the box. Um, you know, uh, that was the other thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Secondhand bookshops and, and book fairs and things like that. So yeah, I, I, I would do that. Um, and spend every, and then later on the comic shop, I was, I spent all my money there. My, my, my hap this was now in probably high school. Yeah. Um, where I spent every dollar that I pocket money on, on these trips out to, um, out to Impact Records, which is now Impact Comics, but Impact Records.

Leigh Chalker (16:30):
Yeah. And, um, you know what’s really weird, I I’ll just interject you for a tick. Had Mel Briggs on last week. Yes. I

Ben Hutchings (16:37):
Saw. Yes.

Leigh Chalker (16:38):
Yeah, there you go. So you’re talking about impact records and stuff. Like, say, Hey, isn’t, it’s a beautiful thing.

Ben Hutchings (16:46):
Yeah. Mind blowing stuff. I forgot to talk about actual comics that are making them. Right. Um, in, in this you can talk

Leigh Chalker (16:52):
About anything you like, Ben, this is, this is your talk, man. I just, I just get excited, man. Like, ’cause comics are my thing too. So, like I said to you before, when I sit, you know, like, you know, Tuesday nights, you know, like I don’t get to talk to many people about this sort of stuff, man. So, you know, that’s why I relish my Tuesday nights. Oh, oh good. ’cause I can really sink my teeth into, um, you know, like the, the thing that, um, well, I guess I’m obviously very passionate about it. Like you, and, you know, it’s given me something, uh, of a, of a, you know, like a, a a bit of a line and a path to pursue, you know, like, I mean, through life and stuff. And, uh, you know, I, I enjoy meeting people, so me and you, you go ahead and you tell us anything you like, mate. I am all ears <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (17:42):
Well, it’s gonna be, um, during, during this, the Comic Discoveries and, and all that, and running around and buying it and buying every comic I could find was, um, figuring out how to make ’em as well. That was a big deal. Like, ’cause I loved drawing and so on, and wanted to make ’em, and had to figure out how I can make comics like the ones on the shelf. And, um, discovered the photocopier. Mm-Hmm. And in high school, as did many other kids my age, all around Australia and other cities with, you know, just independently zine makers, comic makers, that they all seem to just at some point, you know, they, they’ve gotta get their stuff out so they Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> photocopier is the way to do it. Right? Yeah. And, and I started, I started in that way drawing comics as well. And so I was, I was drawing comics and I didn’t even know what kind I wanted to do.

(18:34)
I wanted to funny ones, but I also wanted to do cool adventures. Like the ones I was reading. I wanted to do Superman. I wanted to do just make my own. Who knows? It was also cool, you know, everything from the Freak Brothers to Super Batman. All of it was so cool and, and so cool that I, I was, I wouldn’t do anything. I’d draw any comic, never could decide what, but I kind of fell into the funny ones. Mostly I think I take to them the best, you know? Yep. But as for Impact Comics, um, one day I was in there and I, I’d been, I’d been making my little photocopied ones in, in, in, um, in high school, just stapling ’em. And they was just funny, weird ones I drew in Biro and stuff like that, given to my friends, you know. And, um, and I saw, I looked, I looked behind the counter and um, uh, saw that there were other ones up on the shelf, but they were photocopied as well.

(19:32)
Just like Mark, I could tell, you could tell. ’cause the, just the way it printed and the way the photocopied sometimes ruined the paper bit. And there funny marks and stuff like that. But they flatted in Kuna and, and the artwork looked scary. It looked like kind of cool. And they were big. Mine were little, but these ones were big. And, um, and they had titles like I think Bump and Snore and Fruity Murmurs was another one. I think I, I mixed up the memories a little bit, but I could tell they were homemade. And I said to the guy at the shop, mate, who makes those? And he goes, oh, the kids at the art, the art school students. Oh, the older kids, the art school students. Wow. That’s why they look so evil and, and cool, you know, um, and Arty. And I said, so if I make a comic with use, will you put it up there?

(20:19)
Can I put mine here in here? Yeah. You mate. Yeah. And so I was like, ah. And, and I ran home and, and, and I, I, uh, I drew and Drew and Drew and Drew and Drew. And um, and, and that’s what I did. I made, um, I think I made, I made, uh, might be able to show you the comic I made. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got a portal. I love portals. Yeah. I’ve got all my stuff behind me on shelf. This isn’t the actual comic is a collection of the comic, but I made Yeah. First of one. And it’s called You Stink. And I don’t, yeah. And it was like a, and uh, it was like a, a funny comic and it was almost like a zine really, but just random drawings. And, and by now I was, I think it was, um, maybe, maybe year 10 or 11 or something like this.

(21:05)
But, um, it looked like, like that you stink. And I don’t, Mr. Sexo man a man’s, and it’s just like half cut out and, and I was trying to do like an old fashioned ad and I, I even, I wanted mine to look better than the ones on the shelf that I’d seen. Yeah. So I went to, um, the printer and paid him like hundreds of bucks just to put one extra colour. ’cause it was pre-digital. So I said, print it with black and white, but with a skin tone on, on the, on the front. So mine would look more professional. And, um, and uh, and uh, and, and put this comic cup on the shelves alongside the Bump and Sno. And by the way, that, that, those comics were by, I don know if you know Mandy Ord, who’s quite, um, quite popular now in, uh, Australian cartoonist down here in Melbourne. But, uh, she, she was one of the first cartoonists I ever made contact with in letters and, and, and praising each other’s comics and, and we are friends and stuff. So, um, she got a lot of stuff out now. But yeah, the, the

Leigh Chalker (22:00):
Alice mate, Alison has that, there’s a comment from Alison, she’s letting you know that she has that.

Ben Hutchings (22:06):
Is this Allison? I wonder which Alison this is, is this an Alison that I know, or is it, is it one of, I

Leigh Chalker (22:11):
Dunno. But I tell you what Alison, do you know Ben? Like, let, I

Ben Hutchings (22:16):
Think she does. I think I know Alison, maybe <laugh>. Um, yeah. But this was so fun. I, I brought, this is the, the collected book brought up by Milk Shadow books in 2010 or something like that. Yeah. But, um, that comic, yeah, that was, uh, that was like, uh, the first, my first one, you know, doing it all myself, paying for it all, drawing for it all going into the shops. Hello, Ben. I know Ben. Ben.

Leigh Chalker (22:40):
There you go. Hello, Ben, man, you got a, you got a, you got a crew of fans lining up here, man, look at this. You know,

Ben Hutchings (22:46):
I think they’re friends. I think they’re friends. Wow. You know, they’re fans in that sense. Fans of me. Um, but, but yeah. Uh, yeah. So that’s, that’s how I started, uh, self-publishing and did so many, like over the course of Yeah. A long time. I’ve never stopped. I, I still do them now. Uh, my own homemade ones, self self-published, still love going down the office works and printing ’em up and drawing some weird idea and folding and stapling and cutting and, and all that. Still fun.

Leigh Chalker (23:18):
Yeah. It’s amazing, man. How many people I’ve met through these chin wags that, um, um, oh, Ben says, hi from Sheffield. Hello. Yes.

Ben Hutchings (23:26):
In Shefield, England.

Leigh Chalker (23:28):
Yeah. Right. Awesome. Well, hello to you mate. Hello from Townsville, far north Queensland in Australia. That’s where I am. So, uh, yeah, there we go. Connections. Um, uh, man, it’s amazing how many people still have, um, uh, started, you know, like with many and, um, and the self-help, uh, self-help the self-made, um, you know, like, uh, idea of comic books, because I, I’m similar. I, I never had like an office works or anything when I was younger, but I used to sit there and I would just, I didn’t know either Ben, you know what I mean? When I was a little fellow, man, I’d just have this weird idea of something and I’d just draw a story, man. You know, like, and I’d put some word bubbles and, you know, like draw, you know, colour it in, you know, do it all in a day.

(24:15)
This is an eight page story. Yeah. Whack, you know, staple it, whack it in, give it to mum, you know. That’s lovely. You know, like encourage me more, like go back and, and I was just pumping these things out, man. You know, like, um, if I could reach my thing wherever they are, it’s like, I’d show you them too, but, uh, um, man, I, I love it. Like, I’ve met heaps of people. Like, you got your Neil bla Nadia. Hello, mate. How are you? It’s, uh, how are you, Ben? Your pop. There you go. Look at you been go, mate. Hey, unbelievable. Um, uh, now, um, yeah, but like you got Neil Blandon still makes the minis and you know, people like Ryan <inaudible> and stuff like that, uh, Nick May, who’s a fan of yours, uh, makes beautiful, like, you know, uh, mini comics as well, and that, and, um, there’s something, um, well, when you, I guess from what I’ve seen of you like, and met of you in this space of time, it’s like your enthusiasm, DVN 61. That would be Danny Nolan. I’m, I

Ben Hutchings (25:14):
Have 5 cent. How, which library?

Leigh Chalker (25:17):
In the library photocopy for me?

Ben Hutchings (25:19):
5% pieces. Show me the library. I want to go to that one. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (25:23):
Yeah, yeah. I, man, um, I used to, I used to, I’ve said this before, but I’ll add well to the photocopier. Me and my mates used to have a, uh, a look, a bit of a ring going. Um, we’d buy comic books from news agents and there’d be other people that wanted certain comic books, so we’d photocopy ’em in school and sell ’em off, you know, at school, you know, photocopied and stuff. And Oh, did you really?

Ben Hutchings (25:48):
That’s awesome.

Leigh Chalker (25:49):
We make a little bit of on the side, man. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, you know, then the librarian cottoned onto us, you know, a couple of, you know, like about six, seven months later, man, and that got stopped. So it’s a sort of bit sad. But, you know, we, uh, <laugh> imagine

Ben Hutchings (26:06):
Getting one of those. Yeah. That’s really cool. That’s like Murray, the cat fan club. Who was that Murray, the cat that used to reprint and federal comics? Those Australian reprints. Oh, they were men. Oh, man,

Leigh Chalker (26:18):
I, you know what? I remember that cat. I don’t know the specifics of it, but I remember the ad, like on the back of, uh, cat

Ben Hutchings (26:27):
With a Cat

Leigh Chalker (26:27):
Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do

Ben Hutchings (26:29):
Remember it was mail order. I

Leigh Chalker (26:30):
Haven’t heard of thought about that in such a long time, man. Isn’t

Ben Hutchings (26:34):
That Yeah, it was around. Yeah, no, it was, it was a mail order thing. And so you would get those, those comics mailed to you and I, I can’t quite remember they had the Murray the Cat logo on the corner. Mm. But I think they were similar. You probably also remember the, the federal comics. And I think Planet Comics, you can sometimes see those thick Australian, black and white reprints of sixties comics.

Leigh Chalker (26:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to read, they used to get heaps of, um, my dad used to get heaps of, um, the Batman ones that were particularly, uh, reprints of like all the, um, uh, Neil Adams Batman period. And, um, I, I really enjoyed the Neil, um, Adams Batman because, um, at the time when I was growing up, um, that’s, you know, Marvel, like you had Batman, you know, like, um, the, you know, Robin, but you also had that weird, I don’t know, um, like sort of stop motion animation, like Captain America’s incredible Hulk, you remember that? Captain America, uh, you know, I’m not much of a singer, Ben, but I’ll throw this one at you, man, just ’cause this is, this is just what I, I do, my brain works weird, but remember that when Captain America throws his matey shield or da, you remember that? Are you talking

Ben Hutchings (27:47):
About the 1960s animations where they’re almost not even animated, they just sort of slide onto

Leigh Chalker (27:54):
The screen and they’d slide across? Yeah, yeah, that’s what I saw, saw. You gotta see their legs.

Ben Hutchings (27:58):
It’s just their top

Leigh Chalker (27:59):
Half. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They, they to love those things.

Ben Hutchings (28:02):
Did you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I, I don’t know if I saw many of them. <laugh>, they weren’t very well animated, were they?

Leigh Chalker (28:09):
No, no, they weren’t. They weren’t. But there was something, there something that captivated me about it, man. Um, and it just, it just, you know, like, uh, I guess all the seeds of, you know, like when we are kids and, you know, they blossomed like with, um, how you got into making that like, hands on, um, with your mini comics and stuff, and, um, and man, but I tell you, it would’ve been so cool. Oh, absence, uh, oh my God. Bring that. Oh my. Hang on, Shane. Wait, I’ve got <laugh>. Oh my God. I forgot about those shows. Yeah, I think they’re on YouTube. You know what I mean? If you ever check that I love Roger Ramjet. Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (28:48):
Same era. Roger Ramjet was the same era, but that was a parody. That wasn’t a, that was like, that was a clever parody. That was like political satire, I think.

Leigh Chalker (28:56):
Yeah. And yeah,

Ben Hutchings (28:57):
There was tonnes of those marble ones. There was like The Hulk, I think there was, yeah, there was, um, Thor, maybe

Leigh Chalker (29:03):
I just seemed to,

Ben Hutchings (29:06):
They drew in the Jack Kirby style. So you’ve got these giant Jack Kirby faces appear on, that’s

Leigh Chalker (29:11):
The ones, like, I always around like the Captain America one with the red skull, you know, because the red skulls went, ha ha. You know, that weird laugh, you know, they got going on with like every evil dude, you know, it’s,

Ben Hutchings (29:22):
Um, Hey, um, speaking of those, I, I didn’t really know those shows that well. But my thing when I was a kid, um, I love those. Um, I had these cassette tapes, and they were, originally, they were records as well, you can get ’em on, but there’s these Batman radio shows. Do you remember the Batman and Robin Radio shows? There’s not many of them. And they are on YouTube. Well, but they came out as albums, but also cassette, and they, they were great. They were so good. It must have been the sixties or something like that. But I listened to them so many times. It was Batman and Robin, the Adventures of Batman and Robin had a weird variation of the TV theme. So kind of cool, funky, but not the TV one, but had the same code <laugh>.

Leigh Chalker (30:01):
Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (30:01):
You know, that sort of thing. And, and then it’d be, I loved to a lot the voices and everything say, Robin, blah, blah, blah, Jeep Bruce, like this sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a story about something. And, uh, I love, I know them word for word, even now. I haven’t heard them for 20 years, but I still know all the words because I listened to ’em over and over and over. And in fact, I used to make YouTube for YouTube. I made, I, I don’t know if you know what a YouTube poop is, but it’s like a weird edit of, of audio and video. I used to make them on my cassette recording Batman, making him repeat himself, because I thought it was very, very funny to make them talk weird, um, or slow down and speed it up and stuff. Um, uh, what was the point of that? I don’t think there was a point. <laugh>, I just remember made me remember

Leigh Chalker (30:50):
Made.

Ben Hutchings (30:51):
Yeah. And every episode <laugh> ended with them laughing that someone was like, holy moly. And then they’d all go

Leigh Chalker (30:59):
<laugh>. Yeah, man, the old comforting, weird laugh, you know, like them, you know, they’d just, yeah, I know they’d face off 50 men and they’d all be like, oh, oh, you know, I, I know they’d punched every one

Ben Hutchings (31:14):
Them in the face.

Leigh Chalker (31:16):
I did <laugh>. Yeah. I, this, you know, I’m, I’m tired of this, you know, like violence, you know, let’s, let’s wander off and have a laugh, you know? Yeah. <laugh>, man, I, um, God, I haven’t thought about a lot of that stuff in ages, man. You know, like, um, so I love Chin Wangs too, man. ’cause it brings me back to good memories, you know? And, um, and people that listen to it, you know, like, and, uh, later on, you know, you know, jogs their memory and they go back and look at things. But, um, one of the advantages of YouTube is now with so much on there, man, is like, you know, um, um, I’m pretty sure that, uh, over the next week there might be a chance, next time you’re on YouTube, you might, uh, type in one of these things and just have a look, you know, because I’ll probably do that tomorrow as well. In my spare time. I’ll be like, oh, what was that Ben was talking about? Yeah. But,

Ben Hutchings (32:00):
Um,

Leigh Chalker (32:01):
Man, like, your enthusiasm already is like, humming with me. And like, with the vibrancy, like obviously, uh, as when you’re a kid and doing your, your own like comics and, and just like, you sound to me like a real ideas dude. Like, you just, you would’ve been like, just gushing like ideas and trying to draw, or probably couldn’t keep up with yourself as much as you were having ideas and things and had heaps of stuff happening, you know? Like you would’ve been a busy fella from the sounds of it, you know? Mm-Hmm. Um, what do you remember, like the initial, like when you took that beautiful book that you went to the printers and you got the skin coloured cover so you could, you know, make it look a bit better than everyone else that was behind the counter, <laugh>. Do you remember, do you remember your initial enthusiasm when you were walking into that shop? Man, and like, here it is, you know? Yeah. Like, what was that like? Man,

Ben Hutchings (32:59):
But fear though, and nervous. Not completely pleasant. I, I, I remember, I remember opening the box when you get your first comic that you make and you open that box, and it’s still, everyone who makes comics can relate to this is the feeling of getting the box and sliding it open, opening up and getting the bubble wrap off and picking up that and smelling it is the first thing you do. <laugh>,

Leigh Chalker (33:23):
I thought I was the only one that smelled comic books, man. <laugh>. Oh,

Ben Hutchings (33:28):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (33:30):
Smell.

Ben Hutchings (33:32):
Smell. And you don’t care if it stinks. Sometimes they stink. It’s weird. Oh. But, um, yeah, and you just go, ah, and, and, and then you flip through it maybe, and then you hold them. And it’s great, isn’t it? But I always got this thing where, um,

(33:50)
I think it was, and when I get the comic and I, I would have the box. No, it was taking, I think it was when I was taking the art to the shop or getting the box, I’d get suddenly really nervous that I’d get hit by a car and die before I would get the comic onto the shelves. And this weird sort of like, wouldn’t it be really bad if you got hit by a car now? You know? And every time I do a comic, I get that, like, taking, taking the comic out. It is like, you get it up to the shelves and then you can get hit by a car after that <laugh>.

Leigh Chalker (34:22):
I don’t think anyone would get hit by a car, but man, like, there’s almost, oh, like, do you still feel that now? Like if you walk in a comic book in somewhere, oh, here we go. Kay. Kay. Bel Morrow has a comment for anyone listening that can’t see the screen. And it was, I was only allowed to have Tin Tin comics as a kid. I can’t understand why. I feel like I missed out on lots of other comics growing up in the eighties and nineties. Well, she

Ben Hutchings (34:50):
Certainly did.

Leigh Chalker (34:51):
Yes.

Ben Hutchings (34:52):
It could be worse than Tintin. He’s, that’s one of the best ones, right? Like, I love Tin Tin so much. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s strict, isn’t it? Yeah. Only tin, tin

Leigh Chalker (35:03):
Man. There’s, um, there’s a lot of, um, funny stories about, um, how different, uh, uh, parents over time and schools and things like that, you know, like, um, oh yeah, we’re okay with some things, not with others, you know? But, um, I think everyone, you know, that’s part of everyone’s journey, isn’t it? But I mean, you know, I mean, if you miss something now, I mean, God, the amount of reprints you can get, and, um, I know,

Ben Hutchings (35:28):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (35:28):
You know, you can find anything you want, but any comic’s beautiful. And you’re right, Tintin has lasted forever. And you know, like there’s reason for that. So I, I mean, I, I, I, uh, give you a thumbs up for reading tinting ’cause it’s a pretty good place to start, you know, <laugh>, like if, uh, anything you get.

Ben Hutchings (35:46):
Yeah. It’s very wholesome, wasn’t it? And exciting lots happened. It was really dynamic. He drew with little tiny frames and, um, and had these strange rules that no other artists had. He would often have straight on views, straight on camera angles where you’d see the ground, and he’d be walking along down a corridor in Marlin Spike or something. And Yeah. And everything was given the equal amount of detail. There’s no fading out of things. No artistry in that sense. No, no, no abstractness at all. Mm-Hmm. It was completely literal and really nice. He had nice hands. He drew nice hands holding things and

Leigh Chalker (36:23):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now, did that, that attitude you’ve got right there about talking about like that, like what we, you just spoke about then. Mm-Hmm. When did you discover that? Or did you always have that? Were you looking at your comic books and the enthusiasm of not just making them, but that, like, you were looking at the storytelling already and you were seeing the difference in the artists and the camera work and the, you know, the dynamics of like, the, the motions and things with the panels. Like, because, um, that that’s, yeah, like, I just thought of that then, because man, you’re enthusiastic about that and it interests me. ’cause I mean, you have a long body of work behind you now. And I guess I, I ask because is that something you’ve developed, that you’ve noticed since you’ve started, you know, and been doing comic books and illustration and work for so long? Or was that something that was initially there that attracted you to the medium?

Ben Hutchings (37:21):
Uh, don’t think I consciously noticed that stuff. I noticed when I think about it later and compare it to other cartoonists and compare it to my own work, you know, when an artist does something that I wouldn’t do, or when they do something that I really want to do, I pick up little techniques, strange things, little odd things from, from different artists. Oh, that looks great. I’ll do that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and actually not very often either. I don’t, I read a lot. I, I used to read a lot of comics and, and look a lot, but don’t pick up a lot. I don’t take a lot on board and use a lot, um, or just admire it and think that looks good when he does it, but I don’t want to do that. You know, that’s thing. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (38:03):
Well, that would indicate to me that you’ve discovered your voice, Ben, you know, like that, um, you’re happy with your artwork and you want to improve yourself within yourself with what you’re producing, mate. You know, like, um, uh, yeah. On a note with that, do you find that when you are doing a project that, um, because I know as, as you know, we all get older, you know, like responsibilities become more prevalent and things like that. And, um, we don’t often get as much time as we used to when we were younger to appreciate, you know, like piles of comics like we used to and things, but yeah.

Ben Hutchings (38:34):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (38:35):
Do you find that when you are moving into a project and the ideas are flowing for things that, uh, you read less and you focus more on you and what you are about to produce on, uh, into the work?

Ben Hutchings (38:49):
Uh, uh, I already hardly read anything. I, I’ve been like, honestly, since I was a bit a lot younger, um, I, I kind of stopped having the input, right, which I think you need input. And I think it’d be good to be able to, to read a lot. You definitely should. And watch a lot of movies and read a lot of comics and books and everything, and look at a lot of art. You should do it as an artist. Yeah. But I just haven’t <laugh>, I just did it. I stopped. I like making it so much. And something happened with my concentration sometime, uh, sometime ago in my life, I, something snapped and I no longer could concentrate on reading a, a book. It’s not social media and that stuff. It’s something that just happened at this point where I, um, I kind of stopped paying attention. Um, um, so, uh, I guess, uh, what was the question again?

Leigh Chalker (39:46):
So, oh, the question was, you just answered it. So like, it’s just, just, um, I mean, you’re focusing and you’re working on your own stuff, which, uh, you know, like, I, I just like, obviously, you know, like my level of skill and, and work is, um, not to the extent of yours. Um, but I just, I guess I, like, just from my minimal experience in, um, comic books and things like that, just always like to, uh, I guess find an identifying, uh, marker with, uh, the guest mate because, um, I tend to find that when I decide like that I’m, uh, going to do one of my comic books. Like I sit down and go, right, this is it. You know, like, this is my time. I don’t tend to devour any, uh, exterior material at all. And, um, I tend to go very inward.

(40:36)
Um, uh, Allison, uh, do you both hyper focus while drawing and lose time? Um, well before Ben answers that, I may be able to answer this with what I’m talking about, Allison, because I go very inward with the project that I’m on, um, and what I am drawing. Um, and I don’t tend to take a lot of outside, um, uh, I guess input influence only what I know from what I’ve been as a kid, you know? So I don’t, um, uh, I don’t particularly take someone’s, oh, I like that, or I like this. I like that. I just try things, man. I, I’m, um, I guess I, I like to be fluid, um, uh, as well as, you know, like in conversation and, and in life myself, uh, I and Alison, yes, I do. To answer that before I hand it over to Ben, I have found that my drawing is, um, like a meditation. Um, but then I study meditation and, uh, I’ve been doing that for a fair while now. And, uh, I have found that my meditation, uh, that I practise has only increased my creativity and my focus into my drawing. So, um, I guess it’s double whammy that Ben, therefore, my artwork seems to be a lot clearer, more detailed, and, uh, it’s in a good place. So I’m happy with that, if that answers your question. But Ben, your turn to answer Alison’s question, mate, about high focus,

Ben Hutchings (42:08):
Talking about the Zoom, that’s what everyone calls it, isn’t it? The Zoom? Yeah. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I can get there with like washing dishes, right? <laugh>, but drawing, I want to get there, right? I, I can’t. It’s, I want to. And, um, I find it really hard. I a very distracted, very easily distracted person, always jumping and distracted so easily. But the nice thing is when you can, and, um, usually it’s just within one particular frame. If I’ve got a nice drawing one, one frame of a comic, I, I go with plans to draw pages and pages and pages, but I struggle with that. But, but when I’m in one frame and it’s a nice frame of pencil that really nice, I do pencilling really tight, pencilling, I don’t leave any looseness or it’s gotta be completely tight. And then I get there and then I sit down and start inking that.

(42:57)
And that’s just fun because it’s kind of a no brainer once you’ve pencilled it. Right. You know what you’re gonna draw now. Yeah. And so it’s just the fun, to me that’s the fun bit is now when you, you’re going over it and you’re doing the line real nice and you’re, I’m gonna shade that bit in. I love doing all the little lines and the crosshatching in the dots or whatever, and I keep thinking about it and I just take it slow. And I don’t think, like, I’ve got to get this much done. I think, I think I’m gonna treat this panel like a work of art on its own. And that’s when I can get into that, um, into that zone. And I’ve done comics where, um, you know, each frame will take 45 minutes or something like that to, to do a frame. That’s my average time, by the way, for, for, for a frame. Um, I, I hope I can, oh, I can, I definitely can show you an example, uh, what I’m talking about. Sure. About. Uh, here’s a one that I was thinking of when I said this. ’cause I used to sometimes make videos. I’ve got a few on my squish Face studio, um, YouTube channel, some very old video drawing videos. I would encourage people to look at those. ’cause no one’s looking. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (44:02):
Yeah. That’s the Squish Face Studio, YouTube channel for everyone that’s listening and, and can’t see any of the links. If you’re just listening via podcast, squish Face Studio on the YouTube channel, go and check it out. Ben’s got stuff on there that may interest you.

Ben Hutchings (44:16):
Yeah. Goes back wise. There’s not tonnes, but, but every time I do something cool, there’s, there’s some good videos on there. And I did this comment called Iron Bar Ball Listo in 2000. And look, it’s that it’s got a price tag. I’ll take that off. Um, uh, in 2015, I think. And Milk Shadow Books published it, and it was really cool. It’s just a one off about a, um, sort of a barbarian, um, warrior who is also, he’s a musician, so he uses musical instruments and music features heavily in the comic. And that was cool. And I treated that whole comic like that a bit. It, it was such a simple story. Uh, and it was pretty, I mean, it was, what, 40 pages or something? And I treated every, every panel like, like an artwork. And, and I, I, I completed it in just for me, this is fast, but I completed this in just a few months or a couple of months I think.

(45:07)
Yeah. And to do a detailed, Kyle, I’ll show you the art in a sec, but, um, it had really nice detailed, if I could show you that. Um, it had, yeah, lovely one colour over the top. But, but, um, that was another decision. I quite like, it’s just really basic simple colour. There’s just three shades of this kind of greyish blue. And, and I drew these frames twice as big as what they needed to be and spent ages on just the nice crosshatching and mm-Hmm. And, and, uh, and it, it made it so fun. And also ’cause it was in a semi real style, um, real, you know, serious, but not really. Um, it allowed me to just go get really freaky with the sort of the, um, wrinkles in the clothes and, and facial expressions. Um, he’s another one I like.

Leigh Chalker (45:56):
Well, Nick May said he loves Iron Bard, mate, so thanks.

Ben Hutchings (46:00):
I always wished I could make another one of these. I’ve got two more stories that I wrote, but, um, it’s such a big undertaking ’cause it’s actually, that’s not really, like I just said a few months, but I got a lot of other thing. I get distracted really easy, like I say, but I only ever did, did one of those. I always wanted to find a publisher before I did the second vote. Wasn’t successful in that and didn’t want to undergo such a big thing. Um, and self-publish. But, but I’ll, I’ll, I’ll do another Iron Bard one day. It’s, it hasn’t been 10 years yet, so maybe I’ll do another one. Uh, it’s come,

Leigh Chalker (46:34):
Come along for the, the anniversary mate, the 10th year anniversary. I, I, man, I really like your artwork. Like you were saying, um, you were saying, um, that your inking is, I guess like your meditation process because you’re, you know, you were just saying that, um, you lay your pencils down really tight so you know what you’re doing. And that just took me back to a chinwag, um, when I was talking to Dylan Nailer because Dylan Nailer also, uh, tends to be that way. He was saying, if my memory serves me correctly, he does his pencils really tight and then he finds that he can, um, just let go in the inks, you know what I mean? Like, and flow with it and just do his thing in that regard, man. And, um, and it’s interesting that, um, that you would both, uh, have that, um, uh, method, I guess, um, and probably being very different individuals. Um, Don Tiao. Hello mate. It’s been a while. I hope you are well, um, Ben, where can Don find a copy of? Uh,

Ben Hutchings (47:39):
Unfortunately

Leigh Chalker (47:40):
I

Ben Hutchings (47:41):
Sold the very last copy that, that’s it. I should do a reprint ’cause it is a really good comic and I, I should have, yeah, I should. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll have to reprint it. Um, uh, so, oh, I should say, while we’re on the subject of buying my comics, that yeah, if you wanna see my stuff, um, all the stuff that’s currently in print, um, you would go to the Squish Face Studio, Etsy, uh, you know, Etsy, the online market shop. So if you go to Etsy in type squish Face Studio, uh, you will find the Squish Face Studio shop that, uh, features all, all, all my titles, um, all the ones that are currently in print, and I’ve got plans, uh, to print most of the things that I’ve ever done because a lot of it’s them are out, out of print. So, um, it’ll take lots, it all takes lots of time. All of it does. So, yeah. Um, if you are watching, you should bookmark the Squish Face Studio, Etsy. Um, but yeah, when I do, when I do do another Iron Bard and reprint that guy, um, it’ll, it’ll go up there. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (48:49):
That’s awesome, man. Um, look at all the people that you know, like are reaching out to you and telling you that your stuff’s awesome, man. You know, that’s nice. That’s your community, you know, like it’s, uh, all these enthusiastic, you know, friendly family stuff like that. I do enjoy it when people, uh, um, share their love for the media man and the, and the person that’s the guest. Um, and, uh, yeah, it’s cool. Um, man, with your, um, like you’ve got Iron Bar and you’ve got like, things that are happening there. Do you tend to find, like, ’cause you seem like I’m, I’m gonna, I’m, I’m coming to your, your, your, your new book a little later on, but I’m really interested, like, ’cause I like how people’s brains work, Ben, I know that may seem strange. Like I’m not really like, um, you know, like I’m, I don’t think I’m odd.

(49:37)
I just like, uh, I find creators, uh, creative people in general have the most, uh, interesting outlook on life. Um, you tend to, uh, you see little details in things, um, that other people miss. Um, and, um, with your body of work, um, there’s obviously a big spectrum of things. And you were noticing things, obviously when you’re a kid. Now, what, what I’m, I’m getting too, and people will follow this later on, is as we go through your career and you’ve shown us Bard and you’ve shown us these earlier works that, you know, like you, when you’re a kid and you’re still enthusiastic about things, man to look at you from me, look at what you’ve put down here. And having gotten that book today and sat down and looked at it, man, you have like such a wide range and varied interest. You know, like, it’s like a broad, broad spectrum man. And that, um, did, when, when you choose to do something, um, what, what does, I guess, because you do have a broad spectrum of interest and work, well, I guess what I’m asking is like, it it this with your projects that you wanna work on, are they sporadic these days? Like in terms of like, you get an idea and you go, oh, that’s gonna work. I’m gonna bang, have a crack at that, or do things sit and gestate with you, man, you know?

Ben Hutchings (51:01):
Yeah, yeah. Both. Both, right. So, um, both, both of those have some, I, I got, I got um, <laugh>,

Leigh Chalker (51:08):
He draws a mean Bur Newton and he likes fucking little drawing <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (51:13):
Yeah. I, I must have drawn him once. I don’t remember, but I could definitely draw a mean Bur bur mutant Bur Newton, um,

Leigh Chalker (51:22):
<laugh>, I like there’s a character for you, Bert Mutant mate, you know, <laugh>

Ben Hutchings (51:26):
Oh, rest in peace. Um, yeah, uh, what were you saying? Yeah, no, I was just looking at my computer the other day ’cause I collect all my notes and stuff I used to do on paper and I’ve got piles of these paper just things that I think would be funny and sketchbooks full of things I think will be funny to do. And I was looking at my computer and I just said, tonnes, tonnes of note notepad files of ha wouldn’t it be good if you did this? So millions. But, but occasionally one idea will stand out, not just as, oh, that’d be good, but fully formed in my mind exactly how it will go. Um, and so then I will just jump and do it and I’ll just do it and I’ll smash it out and, uh, uh, um, that’s what happens. So I’ll make, I’m like, you know, just like a one off about something completely unrelated.

(52:15)
Most of my comics are unrelated to each other. So over the years, yeah, I’ve done that. And you know that, that’s, that’s a really killer idea because you actually knew exactly how it was gonna go and you, you made it in record time as well. That’s the other thing. It’s really fast to make and you just wanna see it out. Um, I’ve had a few titles like that. Um, uh, I’m not sure saying them is gonna help ’cause they’re all out of print. Um, and I don’t have any record of their existence behind me. So, um, I had a really cool one called Walking to Japan in 2011, and it was, um, I was just sitting at a cafe, it must have an outside airport, and I love Japan, and I wanted to go there, and I was just, I van could walk there, right?

(53:01)
And so I just had this idea of, it was, the comic was a person just hopping out of, of a car on a beach and walking across the ocean, growing really, really, really big into a giant as he walked across the ocean. And, um, and then, and then as he approach, you know, above the clouds, you know, like a giant wading through the, the sea and then, and then starting to shrink, shrink, shrink down as he approaches Japan and enters Japan as a giant comes down to normal size. And that was the story. Just like, oh, this would be great. And all I thought about was all the different camera angles, all the different shots I was gonna do. Um, it was gonna be amazing. So, so I knew kind of, and I sketched it all out. And then, um, over the course of maybe, yeah, just a few weeks, um, I I drew the thing and smashed it out.

(53:48)
Um, we were at this, um, we had this event, it was, uh, called, um, in, uh, inherent Advice. It was a drawing event in, in the city. And they invited all these artists to go and sit in this open studio, um, and be on, like, on display to the public, right? So we’d all be sitting there at our desk drawing on display. And I used that to draw this comic walking to Japan. And then at the end of it, um, I’d done it in four weeks and, and there was no talking. And it was a really nice looking comic, big panels and stuff like that. And released it in, um, in, uh, in, in newspaper format. Nice big newspaper as one of my best, one of my most popular comics ever. Really? Uh, I think Milk shadow books might have done a reprint or maybe they did the, they did their version of it. Um, but it was a really big deal. It was really, uh, went down a treat and, and even got shown at the cinema. They did like a special cinema screening with Yeah. Mike Oldfield music. I put Mike Oldfield behind

Leigh Chalker (54:49):
It. Oh, tubular Bells going over the top of it. Matt,

Ben Hutchings (54:52):
What’s that

Leigh Chalker (54:53):
Old tubular bells going over the top of it?

Ben Hutchings (54:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, it was, forget which one I chose. Um, but, but it fit perfectly. And I, and um, that was a great comment. I’m gonna reprint that as well. It was, it was a very, very cool comic to do. But that’s an example, um, of, of, of just an idea hits and you kind of have to do it. You just, you know, you can do it. You know exactly how it’s gonna look from start to finish. It’s kind of a no brainer and you smash. I love that. But, um, it’s also a problem because I have real, uh, issues with, um, concentration and, um, yeah, it’s a bit that, that has also been a problem. Actually, the concentration is doing one comic, like Iron Bard. It’s a great comic, but then I’m done and I wanna do something different now. Whereas it would be kind of beneficial if I maybe made three of them at least, you know? Mm-Hmm. Um, and, and maybe it would build up and grow into something bigger. Um, but that’s just how it is. You, you, you are, here you are, and you’ve gotta go with your real urges. If, if I didn’t do that, I wouldn’t be enjoying myself at all. Um, bored easily. Right. So, um, I’m going to just step over there because it’s become really hot in this room and I’m starting to get flushed in my chins. So I’m just gonna turn off the heater so that I won’t be the

Leigh Chalker (56:12):
Pinkest one in the room. That’s okay. That’s okay. I think that sounds fantastic. Um, now we have Che Dorsha just coming in now, so sorry if repeating, but have you ever come close to quitting? And if so, how did you get through it? Uh, well, for <inaudible>, um, I do hope I, uh, pronounced your name correctly. I apologise if I did not. That’s a lovely question because, uh, I think all creators would at points, you know, have those feelings. So Ben, have you ever made and what pushed you through it?

Ben Hutchings (56:51):
Uh, not, not exactly. Um, I’ve definitely got those. I know the mood that you’re talking about, right? And I have had that, I’ve had that, um, that frustration. Absolutely. I have, I mean all the time, like, like as far back as I can remember. But it’s never led to, I’m gonna give up because I have all these ideas I wanna do, and I have plans to quit comics after maybe a couple more graphic novels or something. Or I’ll do a few more things and then I’m gonna, there’s so many other things I wanna do, like games, animation, oil painting. I wanna learn how to do oil painting. There’s too many things, like life’s just not long enough, right? To all these fun things I wanna do. But, so I’ve never, I’ve, I’ve never thought of quitting comics, but I’ve, I’ve definitely had that mood that I know you’re talking about, which is a fucking, you know, well, no one care. But I’ve, I’ve had that so many times. Um, <laugh>,

Leigh Chalker (57:44):
Especially <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (57:46):
Yeah. I be, I mean, it’s, it, comics can be one of the least thank, the most thankless, uh, form I can think of. I reckon apart from maybe acting might be up there, there must be a bunch, but, but comics, the rewards are not big for the amount of work I’ve gotta say. Like, I love them. So for me, that’s all I want to do. But, but there’s definitely been those times, um, uh, after doing, um, used Stink and I, back in the nineties, throughout the nineties into the two thousands, especially around the early two thousands was when, uh, this is 20 years ago, but I do remember that time because I had been doing, um, self-published comics now for almost 10 years, right? So early two thousands and spending so much money to go to comic conventions like Supernova and all the other ones.

(58:37)
I was in Canberra, so I was travelling far, that’s expensive, travelling far all over to go to any comic thing I could get my hands on. I just wanted to go to all of them and try and sell my comics there. And they charged a lot for the tables. And you have to get accommodation and you have to travel there, and it, you spend so much. And then, so when you get to the thing and you sit there for a couple of days selling comics, if it doesn’t go well, this sort of comes a point where you just go, why the fuck? And you just, I didn’t know what was gonna happen. What I’d just been self-publishing all this time, but I was, no, I had, I had a little following. It was nice, you get occasional letters, but I think because of the internet, people started stopping, started to stop writing letters.

(59:21)
I got less and less of them. And I think I, I just remember it being that things got a bit quiet then in terms of Aussie comics and, and, and interest in that sort of thing. And I was possibly even losing interest. I wasn’t a young guy at school anymore. I was now in the real world having to earn a living. Um, so I suddenly thought, where’s this going? When am I gonna, when’s something gonna happen? Like, like I, and I noticed other people who had never heard of, or people I knew had just started were getting success in, in other areas in comics, but not me. And I think of all the work I put in, and then I’d go to the comic shop and see the, the manga section where there’s just one person’s life work like a million volumes. Why isn’t that me?

(01:00:06)
Right. You know? And, and, and, and I felt really bad going into comic shops, and I felt really bad doing comics. It was my whole identity. Right. You know, and I’d failed at it. Right. I, I felt like I was a failure because I’d put so much work in for no reward, no recognition or anything, even, even though it’s easy to forget that I enjoyed doing it right. And, and it was all I wanted to do, right? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But I felt I appreciated really unappreciated. I felt like I was just pouring all this effort mechanically pouring it into a vortex. You might as well just chuck myself into a volcano. Just all my work in me. I’ll just throw myself into a v might as well. Why not? What was the point of me? What the hell? I was thinking like that fully, um, horrible feeling.

(01:00:53)
Um, and well, this isn’t, this isn’t, this isn’t really the lesson you should learn. But, but I did have a success after that. I, I, I suddenly got picked up a, a guy had noticed my comics, um, um, an old workmate named Anthony O’Connor, uh, who I used to work with in Sydney. And he, um, he, he liked my, my my little, um, you stink and I don’t comic. And, and he was now the editor of Picture Magazine, which is a men’s magazine. It’s one of those ones you go into the, like, the seven, the, uh, you know, petrol station. Yeah. And there’s those two, there’s Picture Magazine and People Magazine. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:01:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, I was around for those mate <laugh>, I remember

Ben Hutchings (01:01:38):
Them. And he said, I work for them now. I’m a writer for them and I’ve got an idea for a comic. You wanna draw it, right? He says, it’s called Tales from the Pub. And what it is, people write in with a funny story, and I will introduce the story and we’ll tell it in comic form. And this guy Anthony, right? So I used to work with him, and he, but he was in the magazine photographed in like a top hat and with a sort of a cane and like a robe looking all sleazy like this with two like topless women sort of draped around him. Like he was this dude in a, I think he was ENT throne as well, maybe he had a sceptre with a skull in it, and I think he had a piece of meat in his hand or something.

(01:02:14)
But, um, but he would appear in tails from the pub and he’s, Hey, readers, good day readers. Oh, I got this choice story, you know, or whatever it was. And, and they tell this debaucherous story and just, you know, really gross, something about having diarrhoea or just getting drunk or something like that, <laugh>. And, and, and I did that, that was my job then. And that was, um, so it kind of did pay off, like after all this time, just doing it for no reason and hoping that someone would notice, actually it did. Like someone did notice and something came of it, right? So now I was professional cartoonist for the first time, a professional comic artist for the first time doing an actual comic, uh, actually for the second time, but, but, but proper income for this comic. Um, I drew one issue a week, full colour stories about just shit in your pants.

(01:03:03)
Sorry, I swore that p you know, all that kind of thing. Vomiting, whatever, you know, and, and putting so much care into the, into the poo or, or like into the ball. It was often about either one of those two things. But, but it was great. And it was the early two thousands. So that was the time when you could actually like, rent and like afford rent and be happy renting and like get by on, on not much money. So a few hundred bucks a week plus a bit extra work, and I could live. And, um, I tell you what, I still, I was stoked to get the job. It was the best, one of the best jobs I ever had. But, you know, you’re asking about the brain and how we think, right? Yeah. I should have appreciated that a lot more than I did.

(01:03:44)
I was still, I’m not exactly doing exactly what I want exactly do, right? Yeah. Just do my own creations probably. And, and tell us in the pub that the, the, the humour of it was a bit different than mine. It was a little off from what I, what I would normally do write about. But, but, but man, I was getting paid, I was getting seen by so many people for the first time ever seen by this huge audience, right? I don’t know how many people, a lot, a lot of people. And read Picture Magazine and well, I’m

Leigh Chalker (01:04:11):
Pretty willing to bet Ben that, uh, three quarters of far North Queensland probably were reading that at the time, man. So,

Ben Hutchings (01:04:18):
I think so. Right?

Leigh Chalker (01:04:20):
Everywhere <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (01:04:21):
Yeah, I think so. I think I think that’s true. And, and, um, it was popular. It ran for a long time as well, and I was really honoured, like, like, uh, you know, when you, you feel like you’re not noticed, right? Underappreciated not not appreciated. And suddenly they’re paying you and they want your work, and you’ve got an audience there waiting. It’s like, like, like stepping out on stage in a way. Like, like, like, you know, you’ve been practising your whole life and now you step out, now you’ve gotta perform and show ’em what you can do, right? So I just did my absolute best, man. I, I made it the funniest comic. I drew my own things. I’m not sure where you could see it now. I think I, um, had ’em all up on Facebook at one point. They probably all gone, but again, I’d probably do a Kickstarter book or something like that.

(01:05:05)
’cause there’s so much work. I did it for 11 years, right? And, um, 501 episodes, I believe 501 episodes of Tales in the Pub every week for, for Picture Magazine. And I was really proud of it. Um, I think I was one of very few Australian artists making a living from comics at the time, because I was also getting paid to do a, a thing in, in a spinoff magazine, a spinoff picture, spinoff magazine. Uh, so I was getting paid for those two and doing okay, like, like, like, um, being able to pay rent and eat food. Um, I was really, really proud of that actually, at the time. That would’ve been, uh, early before 2010, like rent 2006 seven maybe. Um, uh, what’s the point of that story? She was asking if I ever wanna quit, um,

Leigh Chalker (01:06:00):
If you’d ever wanna quit. And what was it that, um, when you’d had those moments, what was it that dragged you out? Um, personally, um, just coming in there. Yeah,

Ben Hutchings (01:06:12):
Yeah, yeah. Sorry if

Leigh Chalker (01:06:12):
I’m repeating, but have you ever cl come close to quitting? And if so, how did you get through it?

Ben Hutchings (01:06:19):
Yeah, so, well, like I say, again, I didn’t ever want to quit being in the pits, being in the pits of absolute self-doubt. Think this is a waste of time that doesn’t draw me out of it. I still want to see these ideas of mine come out. I just want to. And, um, and so I never quite did want to quit. I, I mean, I wonder if she’s a cartoonist herself or, or, or maybe she feels that way or, you know, I’d like to maybe have a back and forth about that. If you’re there. Um,

Leigh Chalker (01:06:51):
Uh, feel free to the lady who said that, uh, that those, uh, comment, that comment in if you would like, uh, Ben’s here. And, uh, you feel free to keep adding your comments, mate. We’ll, uh, get through ’em for you. So we’ll see if we can, uh, help you out. Uh,

Ben Hutchings (01:07:07):
I just have that feeling of hope all the time. Like, I’ve seen what you can do, what a person can do with a pen is, is amazing to me. Like what one of the first inspirational things was, was seeing, discovering Japanese manga and when I was kind of a kid, and, and, and going from Superman, et cetera, those colour comics and, and all that stuff to just seeing these little manga volumes that were tiny little volumes that are similar to,

(01:07:34)
Uh, to this. Actually this artist here is a guy called Suge Yoshi Haru. And he’s a, he’s a, he’s a Japanese cartoonist. And this is probably not a great example because it’s an early work of his, but look, here’s, here’s a little frame of the kind of thing, the kind of book you can see those reads there. And there’s a dead man who’s just died there. And he’s, he’s, he’s, there’s a, a little crying baby. And that starts this big story. Um, he, he’s a great artist, but I, I found one of the volumes of his work, and I was so amazed at the amount of detail in this tiny little book that, um, it was really inspiring as what, what you could do with a pen, but what you can just do with a pen. The simplest instrument just makes lines with, with, with, with black ink on white paper.

(01:08:28)
And you need nothing else. You don’t need technology. You don’t need anything. If you’ve got the skill and a patience and imagination, you could tell an epic tale, right? And, and, and I felt that way, and, and I knew that I didn’t have his skill at all, but it was possible, right? So you, you have that, that feeling of hope I could do this. It may be really hard and it may take a long time, but I could do something that cool. I could eventually, and, and if I really, really, really want to do it as soon as possible, I just need to go and do it all the time. And that’s all. It’s all it takes. It’s a lot. But it’s doable, right? It’s possible. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. And so there’s always that feeling of hope of you could, you can make something really great. You just can, there’s no reason why you can’t. And, and I’m always excited about the future. And so I think I never quit because I just, yeah. But, but, but what if I did that? This might suck. Someone might hate this. No one cares about that, but what? But there’s nothing, no nothing saying that a future thing that I do can’t be a phenomenon. You know, there’s, there’s no no reason why not. You just never know. You can never predict that, that I think you’ve

Leigh Chalker (01:09:34):
Got, I think you’ve got a beautiful attitude there, man. In fact, I’m, um, you’re, um, like, uh, for someone who thinks similar to you in terms of, uh, art and doing it, um, you seem quite spiritual to me. Uh, and you have a connection with your artwork in that regard, um, uh, in terms of, uh, it is you and, uh, you seem to be full of hope, which is a good way to live. And you seem to have a lot of faith in yourself and your creativity. Um, I’m just going to talk, stop myself talking there for a second and we’ll go back to that lady’s, uh, or

Ben Hutchings (01:10:09):
Yeah, she, she responded.

Leigh Chalker (01:10:11):
Quick question. Um, all right. So, haha, yes, I am a cartoonist coming on 10 years of constant failing, and I often wish I would quit ’cause it’s so hard. But I keep trying ’cause I wanna see these projects finished so much. Yeah,

Ben Hutchings (01:10:30):
Well, that’s the same thing, right? You wanna see ’em finished? I, I dunno, I, and I, I would also wonder what she meant by constant failing, like what she sets out to do that doesn’t happen. Is it that people don’t like your work or you don’t like it? Or, or what? ’cause that matters a bit. Um, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. I don’t, or,

Leigh Chalker (01:10:49):
Or, or maybe that person hasn’t met their own expectations, but the funny part is sometimes, um, you know, each individual sets their own expectations. But to those people around you, you know, like you’ve, you’ve surpassed expectations because like to me, I, I think, um, uh, look, meant to create something, the difficulty that goes into putting a comic book and idea together and get it started, get it finished, get the cover worked out, you know, you know what it’s like, just even that is an amazing accomplishment in itself. Like, and you should never sell yourself short for that, because there’s so many people have ideas to do these things. Yeah. But they don’t. And you are one of the few that is, you know, that’s true, isn’t it? You know? That’s true. It’s, and that’s part of it because as you said before, like the first day I got my first box of comic books, man, I didn’t believe it was real, you know, like, and got it.

(01:11:48)
And was so excited. ’cause this is something I wanted to do as a kid. And I, I start like, I was always drawing Ben, but, um, and I was creating my own comic books and drawing, uh, you know, like forever in a day, um, going through ups and downs in life and different things like that. But it wasn’t until I was in my, uh, what early forties 42 that I got my first comic book published, man. And, um, that was, believe me, I I, I understand the whole idea of, you know, like, um, you know, like thinking you’ll never get it done. But then, um, I, I mean, I, I think just in my time of talking to people, and I’ve said this before too, man, is like, everyone has a different idea of success. Like, I mean, some people, you know, want a house, other people want a horse.

(01:12:33)
I mean, some people get fan, you know, like get people send them letters and tells them like how much their work means to them. And you’ve, you know, you’ve made an impact on one person’s life, which is an amazing feeling. ’cause that’s one person. And it’s not to say there’s not others out there that aren’t admiring your work either. And, um, you know, like, it is about being positive. And I can tell you, man, I had a breakdown the other day. I, I have breakdowns all the time about what am I doing in my granny flat, you know, like drawer and, and you know, like trying to get these comic books out and stuff, you know, but just, I, man, just have a breather, like, just pen down. Just go and have a walk, chill out. You know, like, you know, like, have a cup of tea, something, you know, just let yourself reset. You can, you know, you don’t have to, you reset and set as many times as you like, you know what I mean? And then come back when you’re ready.

Ben Hutchings (01:13:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Know, you just sit then, like that feeling, she’s talking about the failure feeling and stuff. And I get so down, I just start to add up and weigh up all the bad things and go, oh, and this happened as well. Oh. And that other thing that I, that was bad. And you, you make a little pile of bad things and you walk, you go with the bad thing feeling. Yeah. And then you just of just sort of go for a walk and you eat a nice piece of cake and suddenly it’s weird. Like you might, so it just goes, you go, Hey, I think I wanna draw comics. It just, no, it’s weird. It, it is just this weird chemical thing that makes no sense. Oh man, she, I missed what she said

Leigh Chalker (01:14:02):
There. Yeah. No shame will bring that back up for us. So the next comment is for anyone listening that can’t see the screen, it’s very much that I don’t like it. I rarely show anything I do because it’s so bad. And when I do, it’s crickets. Oh,

Ben Hutchings (01:14:18):
Oh, right, right, right. So you’re not happy with your work very much that I don’t like it. Oh, man. After 10 years, you don’t like your own, do you really, is is that a real, I wish we could talk face to face. Is that a real feeling or is that just you saying that? Like, like, oh, man, there’s so many questions I wanna ask because these are just, these are kind of, I, I mean, I’ve been, I, I’m lucky. I was told from a young age that I was good at drawing. I’m, I’m kind of really lucky than most people. And, and, and, and was able to just sort of lean into that and not try very hard for a long time and stuff. So I don’t, I don’t often have the feeling that, that feeling, but I definitely have doubts about everything I did with it.

(01:15:05)
Right? Like, and, and my life decisions and oh, and, and my, well, is it, most of it is very unpopular. No one cares about it, man. I, I, I’m still like, like you, uh, what can I, so what am I trying to say? You, it’s hard to measure the value of something and also it, it who you show it to matters a lot as well. Today. I person say I got three likes on Instagram. I got hardly any followers. You know, I’m not, you know, I got little successes here and there, but the amount of work that’s just gone into the volcano, right? The amount that just hasn’t been seen, the amount that was not appreciated is, is immense. And, um, it’s, I don’t, I don’t know what to say about that, really. It doesn’t make make me want to quit. Uh, well, I wanna talk to this lady properly and, and kind of, it’s a, it’s a real back and forth thing, isn’t it? Like that, that, that’s a big problem. That feeling

Leigh Chalker (01:16:02):
Would, um, would it be fair to say, and I don’t wanna put you on the spot, that if that individual wanted to, uh, reach out to you via your, uh, you know, email or, uh, anything like that and chat to you about, um, different things that would be a possibility? Oh,

Ben Hutchings (01:16:18):
Sure, sure thing. Sure thing. Yeah, absolutely. ben.net anytime. Um, also, she’s <crosstalk>.

Leigh Chalker (01:16:24):
I mean, I, I, I tell you, to be honest with you, Ben, I’m that interested in, uh, in how you are feeling about that, that if I had the capabilities, and I don’t know, um, if, if Shane’s capable of doing it in the background or organising, or if that individual would like to, but, you know, like I, I’d be very open to, um, having that person join us on the show, um, to come in and, uh, have a yarn maybe this time be pardon

Ben Hutchings (01:16:57):
This time now, or some other time in the future.

Leigh Chalker (01:17:00):
Oh, mate, they could come on right now if they want. I love the fluidity of this thing. I’ve been, I’m one of those people that man, like, I think myself from re, like, again, I’m not someone that has the extent of work that you do. Mm. But I have drawn since I was a kid. Mm. And I have had those moments too, only as last, as last week. And, um, you know, even doubts with, like, I sit there to my right hand side with the proof of my new comic book, and it comes out in a couple of weeks and I’m doubting myself now, whether that’s the best thing, you know, I, you know, is that a good piece of work? That sort of thing. But the fact that that person has just kept going through 10 years and wants to improve to me, is an amazing show of, um, determination is an amazing show of spirit and heart in the medium. And I’m, man, I’m a dude that started drawing at like five years old and didn’t get my first comic book published until 42. There you go com X show slash interest form to get on the show. So if you want to come on, you can. Um, but the whole thing is, it’s like, don’t give up. I mean, if it’s giving you pleasure, if it’s, um, yeah. If

Ben Hutchings (01:18:27):
It’s giving you pleasure, if it’s not giving you pleasure, do give up <laugh>. I would say that, and I, I,

(01:18:36)
I kicked myself a lot when, when I was talking about the early thousands and, and not just then, but throughout periodically, you know, like, what have I done with my life? Me? And, um, and I kind of, it’s really easy to forget that actually am enjoying myself, right? Like, I have been enjoying drawing this and believe in the thing that I’m doing. Um, I don’t think I’ve ever a hundred percent just done it for a reaction or success or anything like that. And I think if I’ve never, I, I’m, I’m doing okay now. I, I get commissioned to do graphic novels like that when you were just talking about and stuff. Mm-Hmm. But I think that if, even if I didn’t, um, and it was crickets, right? I, I still think I would’ve kept on with it for quite a while. It’s just because I like it. It comes naturally and you’re just doing the thing. I’m just doing the thing like that. So hopefully with this lady that was talking, um, she’s getting pleasure out of it and, and, and maybe overlooking it because I, what I was gonna say is in those down times, um, you know, when you’re doubting yourself, you, you do, you do forget, you forget that you were actually enjoying yourself during the creation, right? You, you forget that, that you were doing that instead of something else that was boring, right?

Leigh Chalker (01:19:52):
Yeah, a hundred percent. And, and I, I would agree with that, man. Um, I also would think too, that when you grow in more self-confidence, um, with yourself, um, don’t worry so much about what other people think about your artwork, just find in it and it’ll come from there. Um, Ben from Magee, Ben, you encouraged me to make comics all the way back at inherent advice at the NGV when I was really must. I’m making my own zines and got into the zine machine up in Ballarat recently. So thank you for inspiring me.

Ben Hutchings (01:20:31):
Wow.

Leigh Chalker (01:20:32):
That’s that they

Ben Hutchings (01:20:34):
Do they have the zine machine up? I was in Ballarat just two days ago. Wow. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, that’s great. Yeah. I probably, maybe remember, I might remember you maybe, I don’t know that NGV was cool. That was like that thing I was talking about, inherent advice. It was the thing that led to squish face in, in, for me anyway. Um, and we had tonnes of students and kids and, and all kinds of artists and just all kinds of people coming through waves and waves and waves of people who were really interested in drawing and, and, and watching people draw that was really strange to me because it was just a thing that you do by yourself in your room, right? And that no one else cares about. I didn’t really know many visual artists in high school or college. My friends were all musicians.

(01:21:22)
So it was a really isolated thing. And I never realised that. I just didn’t realise. But gosh, it is something I just did on my own mostly. So doing that event was amazing because suddenly there’s just people taking an interest in you drawing comics. It never occurred to me that that would be interesting to someone. Uh, and, and it was such a fun time, such a nice fun energy at this, this thing in the middle of Melbourne City, like in the, in the, in the, um, the NG. Uh, it was actually the, what do you call it, Federation Square? It was there. Yeah. It was a tonne of people every day. It went for, I believe it went for a month. Uh, it was really inspiring. That’s a big thing that inspired me to start. Uh, I’ll point squish Face Studio. Squish Face Studio. Yeah. That way. Squish

Leigh Chalker (01:22:08):
Face Studio. Yes. They’re coming to Squish face.

Ben Hutchings (01:22:13):
What’s that?

Leigh Chalker (01:22:14):
We’re gonna come to Squish face very soon. So, you know, like we can talk about your workings and your little crew and everything like that.

Ben Hutchings (01:22:22):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:22:23):
What I mean, yeah. You about to say something, mate, I interrupted you. I’m very sorry.

Ben Hutchings (01:22:28):
Get what I was gonna say now. What was I, what was I gonna say? <laugh>?

(01:22:32)
Yeah. For those in Melbourne or visiting Melbourne. Um, we still, we’ve kept up a monthly free drawing night every month. First Wednesday of every month from six 30. I think it might be seven now. Uh, doesn’t matter. You can find out. Um, uh, you should follow the Squish face, Instagram, squish Face, studio, Instagram, all the details. Anyway. Yeah. Monthly. For, for, for, I think, I think we’ve been doing it for more than 10 years now. One of the first things we did at Squarespace was start a monthly drawing that it’s just a free event and used show up. And I think there’s a coin donation where you don’t, you know, whatever. And, um, and you show up and you bring snacks and you sit and draw and you draw whatever you want. And it’s not even a class, it’s just sitting and hanging out with other people and drawing, which is kind of the spirit of the, the studio, which is what we like.

(01:23:19)
Drawing is fun, but drawing, not by yourself, but also not really socialising as much as you want. You socialise as much as you want. You can just sit there and draw on your own. Uh, but you’re around other people. And it’s so cool. And we have it out at the studio, in the hall there. We’ve got a big hall, and I believe we’re doing one this coming up. Um, and I, you have to check the, check the date, check on this, you know, it’d be the first Wednesday. It’s great. It’s a really good event. And then that’s where you have conversations about, oh, I wanna quit, or whatever. That’s where those sorts of conversations come up. And you have ’em with everyone in the room, and everyone commiserates and everyone gives you great advice and drawing tips, and you get to know people. And there’s new people and there’s experienced people, and there’s people that never draw it in their life. And, uh, professional, it’s a really cool event. Um, and hopefully just keep going forever. But, but if you’re in Melbourne or visiting,

Leigh Chalker (01:24:15):
Man, that to me, that to me, coming from a regional city in far north Queensland,

Ben Hutchings (01:24:22):
Yeah. Far out

Leigh Chalker (01:24:23):
Would, would be a dream man. Um, I be, because I love the idea, obviously of, um, community for like comic books and artwork and stuff in general, the medium as a whole. Um, and that’s, um, already from what you, you started, um, like going into, uh, what Squish Face Studio is about is something that would attract me if I was in Melbourne, to be around like-minded people and not feel that you were the only person, you know, like at your table by yourself. ’cause you do get a lot of thoughts. And sometimes overthinking can develop into negativity too, and, you know, oh yeah. That’s only natural. I mean, that’s just how it’s, um, um, but you know, that’s one thing. Like I, I see, um, seeing a similarity in the community feel that squish Face Studio is, um, established or establishing, um, ongoing and, um, even what like Comex is doing in the livestream fashion, you know what I mean?

(01:25:29)
Because being from Townsville, and, I mean, Australia’s a giant like country, and just to be able to meet people, you know what I mean, is amazing, you know, like, and, um, um, just to pick up advice or, or see things, you know, like you change and you talk and build your confidence when you are with other people. And like, when you’re seeing other people develop and you are like, oh, you know, like, you are doing awesome. You know, like, and there’s an enthusiasm and a vibe and stuff like that. And you feel proud for how each other’s doing and things like that. Man, I, you know, I love

Ben Hutchings (01:26:01):
So much. And the best thing when you’re a kid, even like starting out, is just to meet that other friend, that one other friend who also likes to draw, right? Or the same stuff you do. And then you guys come up with the ideas and you do crazy stuff and great stuff. Yeah. Being around people that, that energy, um, is, is, um, is so important. Yeah. Yeah. Being around people, obviously, it’s really, really important for artists.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:28):
It is no matter what. And Nick May, Nick May, sorry to interrupt, has got a comment up here, and he says, for those, just listening, I took my two daughters to Squish face when they were quite young, and we got to draw on coasters with lots of people. So there you go. There’s Nick. Oh, mag, I’ll have to visit the next one. Drawing around other people is so much more motivating than doing it alone. Sometimes well Mag as, as, uh, Ben said, squish Face Studio on Instagram. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, we’ll have the upcoming dates and stuff like that and times and, um, um, keep an eye out. And,

Ben Hutchings (01:27:08):
Uh, July the third. July the third, July the third.

(01:27:12)
But it’s on every, every, every month. So, so we’ve got a meetup, you know, the site meetup.com you could do through that, or you could just check out the webs, uh, the Instagram. And you don’t need an Instagram account to look at Instagram, you can just go on the internet, internet, uh, instagram.com, Swiss Face Studio. But, but yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, I think people learn that when they come to the drawing night, they, they, they keep coming back. They, they all, they really like it. Back in the old studio, we had this quite small room and, um, and we’d hold it every month and, and, and we’d fill up, it would fill up with people. They didn’t even get desk space a lot of the time. They’d turn up late and they’d be sitting like this shoulder to shoulder man, like sardines in this room, especially in winter, right? And, and that, and we’d have to buy, we bought piles of, um, uh, clipboards, you know, so they could draw on a clipboard. And people loved it. They loved to draw just around other people. Like I say, it’s not a, not a class. It’s just hanging out,

Leigh Chalker (01:28:12):
Just hanging out, man. Just vibing. Just, you know, like having fun. Like, you know, it’s so

Ben Hutchings (01:28:18):
Nice. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:21):
Beautiful. That, that does sound beautiful to me, man. You know, like, if, if I was down that way, I’d be there, you know what I mean? Like, um, because it’d be cool ads to hang out with, with people. Could you even

Ben Hutchings (01:28:33):
Do one in Townsville? I mean, every Town City’s got their artistic, uh, event.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:37):
Yeah. Well, you know what this is, oh, for anyone, there’s, um, uh, squish Face Studios, Instagram, uh, sig, uh, sign, hashtag thingy, um, address that’s there for you. Um, I mean, I could possibly, uh, it’s really weird, Ben, that, um, I had this conversation with a dude today and, um, um, I, I odd that that came up this morning to a certain extent, there was, like, we were talking about, man, there’s no groups in Townsville. There’s no like-minded people to even talk about, you know, like, you know, hang out for a few hours, talk about comic books, you know what I mean? Like with, with folks and stuff. And, um, we were sort of saying like, man, you could really set up an event, you know, like just hanging out somewhere. And then suddenly you’ve just, you know, could you set something up like that in Townsville? And, you know what I mean? Like, there’s probably a good chance that I could, Ben, and you know what I’m actually, I, I think I might look into that mate and uh, see what’s out there. ’cause that would be a really cool thing to do, man. And meeting people locally and stuff. ’cause I know they’re out there, but we’re all shy. <laugh>. Yeah. You know, like, we don’t like coming out, mate. You know, everyone

Ben Hutchings (01:29:43):
Who comes to the drawing nights are shy. They start off really quiet, and then for some reason about halfway through, someone will start talking and then everyone will start talking, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or, or you’ll get that one person who just never stops talking. And they’re great. The people that never stop talking are the best for things like that because they, and, and everyone else goes, ah, and they all start as well. <laugh> and

Leigh Chalker (01:30:09):
That man. Yeah,

Ben Hutchings (01:30:10):
It helps me. But yeah, you could do it. You just need a venue, any venue, community centre. I bet you’ve got a community centre. You’ve got something like that. Or just, I’ll bet there’s a cafe and a nice cosy cafe somewhere in Townsville and with a nice old lady who runs it. And you go, okay, can I do this? And she’ll go, oh, that’d be lovely. And, and you’ll have a little room and, and you’ll do it every, every two weeks or something, and maybe just make it drawing or art or whatever it is. Um, yeah, nothing like it, man. Like, like being around other people is, is just this great, it’s a free natural thing. Uh, it’s, you know, a, a break from online, break from isolation. Most of humankind know this to be a fact, <laugh>, but, uh, it, in, in our society, I think people did forget a little bit that you just, you can’t just be around your own family or your own two friends once a week. You’ve gotta be around people.

Leigh Chalker (01:31:02):
Yeah. Gotta get out. It’s good for it’s good mental health mate, you know? Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (01:31:07):
Mental, yeah. All that stuff. All of it too. You

Leigh Chalker (01:31:09):
Know, get around people and vibe and stuff. Um, too with, um, now I just with you look, I, I like the sound of this Squish Face Studio thing. Um, what, um, now just looking over your, um, looking over the back of you there, mate, you seem to have an award on that top shelf, um, oh, yes. And, uh, now I certainly don’t want to, um, not, um, point that out to people because that’s a, that’s, um, one of those great things that, um, you know, like someone that, uh, has well in comic books and, um, comic Arts Australia awards or the ledgers as they were once called, was a ledger prestigious thing. Yeah, mate, so tell us about that. What was, what, um, got you that and, uh, you know, like what year and stuff?

Ben Hutchings (01:31:54):
Uh, 2014.

Leigh Chalker (01:31:56):
Yep.

Ben Hutchings (01:31:57):
And, um, it was, uh, the platinum, the ultimate one. Yeah. And it was funny. It was in a, in that year. And, um, I was there at the awards and it was a really nice awards. For some reason. I was having a nice time chit chatting with everybody, and there was wine and, and it was in the ski <laugh>. And I’d been to a few before, and I think I might’ve been the judge for a couple at some point. Maybe, maybe. I dunno. But they’d been going for a few years. And, um, and so I went along and I’d always go to them. And this time I believe it was almost over and I didn’t win anything, so I, oh, I feel like going now you in that selfish mood. I, I didn’t win anything. I’m outta here. <laugh>. I didn’t mean I was angry. I, I was just like, okay, I’ve gotta go home. I’m, I’m sick of standing up. I’m not gonna go home and sit down and play PlayStation or something like that.

Leigh Chalker (01:32:54):
Yeah. So I left

Ben Hutchings (01:32:55):
And I think I left on a tram and, and, uh, and then I <laugh> my friends were back there, and I left on a tram, and I got this phone call and I listened and I, I didn’t take it, and I just stayed in the tram. And then I, I checked my phone and there was a saved message on the phone. And what it was, was the entire crowd of the pla the ledgers going, Ben, your dick Ed, come back. And he said, yeah, come back your dick Ed, like the, the host of the, of the ledgers, David, my, my, the co guy, the co squish base studio founder and Bernard Callio. And they would say, come back, back. So they were calling me, they’d held the phone out, come back and I’d, I rushed back and, and I’d won the, the Platinum Ledger award for, um, and then people were waiting there, and then they were laughing as I was coming back in. You, you left too early, like the, the, we announced the platinum. And it was for, um, just for being in comics for ages and being really rad.

Leigh Chalker (01:33:59):
Being really rad. That’s a good reason to get an award, man, because it’s like, I can see, I’ve only known you for a little while and I think you’re pretty rad. So you <laugh>

Ben Hutchings (01:34:08):
Likewise.

Leigh Chalker (01:34:09):
Thank you. No, that’s, man, that’s a lovely thing to get. I was looking at it before, like, as we were talking and I thought I must ask you about that. They’re

Ben Hutchings (01:34:17):
Really nice. I I don’t think I, I’m they’re not, they’re not called that anymore, right? Like there’s a different Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:34:23):
They’re the CC Triple A, the comic, uh, awards of Australia now, um, I believe is the correct name for them. Um, I’m not sure when they stopped being called the Ledgers, uh, maybe a year or two back. Um, someone out in the audience may be able to, um, clarify that for me. But, uh, I really

Ben Hutchings (01:34:42):
Like that, the Ledge Award. I like that it’s this, I just like it the shape, everything. It’s just a classy little wooden thing. Yeah. Um, my, one of my friend David, the guy I keep mentioning, he started Squish face with me. He, he won one in the year that they didn’t make, they didn’t manufacture the physical award, I think Covid or something. So

Leigh Chalker (01:35:02):
That sucks. Paul

Ben Hutchings (01:35:03):
Got secret chance to build him one. Um, but I dunno if that would work.

Leigh Chalker (01:35:07):
<laugh> mate. It is called the C Triple A, but the awards, uh, I guess the show, the awards are still called Ledges, so. Okay,

Ben Hutchings (01:35:16):
Good. So yeah. Good, good, good. They’re very good. And, and, and we, we had a few in, in Squish face, different members of Squish face, one different, uh, ledgers for different things over the years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, who you

Leigh Chalker (01:35:29):
Got in Squish face mate? Like, let you know, like, who are your other, um, studio mates and what, what’s the studio like? Like, it, it’s an open room. Like do you, do you have like little quadrants or, you know, you stay outta my area if you got those weird spatial walls up, or is it open, like, living and, you know, you throw paper at each other or tell the other one to turn their music down, <laugh> or someone meditating in the corner with, you know, like, uh, uh, what’s that word you said? Pickles going off. Hey,

Ben Hutchings (01:36:02):
Pickles. Pickles. That was the word, wasn’t it? <laugh>? Not, not that

Leigh Chalker (01:36:05):
<laugh>, not

Ben Hutchings (01:36:05):
That this is a bad subject at all. It’s just that we haven’t had that place for quite a while. It, it existed for, uh, nine years and, and it was just an open room, one open room with a big long table in the middle. And that turned out to be the ideal layout. And it looked, the walls looked like the walls behind you. Can you see your, your own walls? That it was just pla in the artwork of, uh, uh, tonne hundreds of people. Um, someone mentioned the coaster show, drawing on coasters. We used to have a coaster show there, uh, for our birthday where people, the public would come in, everyone would just draw and we’d stick these coasters on the wall and they stayed there for years as well as just random pictures, posters, whatever. We thought it was amazing. And just, that was in itself really inspiring and, and really nice. It had this beautiful, cosy atmosphere. It was tiny, but it was big enough to walk around. We had printers, graph photocopier, GOCO machines. We had it, we had it all. Um, yeah. But unfortunately, um, that that ended, we got kicked out, someone bought the building and, and since then we’ve sort of been drifting around a little bit. Um, we, we, we had a, a, a space. Did you, I think I saw that you might’ve spoken, done a chinwag with Fran, Fran with F France. Can Candle is his name.

Leigh Chalker (01:37:26):
No, no, I haven’t. But he is someone that, he is someone that, uh, I, uh, trying to, uh, track down, line up, get in touch with to, uh, to do that. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Ben Hutchings (01:37:39):
Yeah. So anyway, he, he, we shared a place with him, put, put Simply Yeah, cool. A giant big, and it, well, it wasn’t great. We ran the, the, the, the, the drawing night, that was fine. But as workspace, it was, it was not quite right. It was really big. And I was in a bad area far away and not, not near anything. Yeah. Um, after a year we got kicked out again. And then, um, David Blumenstein is someone you that you should maybe have one of these with Chin a Chinwag. He can tell you the squish face thing from his point of view. Um, yeah, he found a place in South Melbourne, and again, it’s, it’s kind of out of the way a little bit. It’s a nice area. Um, but not, not much going on. And, and the room is very small. It’s in, it’s in a sort of church complex.

(01:38:23)
It’s a little small, um, working space, quite nice, but, but very, very cosy. And it’s not open to the public. It’s not like a, on a, on a shop front like the old squish space was. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s, that’s what it’s, that’s what that place is like. And me, I’ve been very busy with, with, um, my latest sort of projects and stuff that I’ve, I’ve stepped away from, from the actual physical space a bit. I turn up to drawing nights. I host the drawing nights, but, um, but I, I don’t kind of focus on Squish Face Studio very much. I don’t, I don’t go in there a lot. And when, when I’m, when I’m done with these, these things, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll start visiting a bit more often and, and so on. Yeah. And, and someone mentioned it sounds like an amazing phase. It was, it was a really amazing space. Hopefully, I think if you go, I’m gonna point you to another URL. If you go to squish face studio.com, um, you can look in the archives, look in the photos, and see photos of the place and, and, and what it was. We haven’t updated that site very much, but you’ll see tonnes of photos of what it was like, um, uh, on the, on the Squish Face Studio site. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:39:30):
Mm. One second. Keep talking, Ben. I’m all right. I’m head and I’m, I’m an egghead and didn’t turn me power on for my computer. I was gonna do that while we were talking at the start of the show, but I got too excited talking here and a little battery thing went, you only need to charge up. So I just had to duck over there and do that, but I’m back now.

Ben Hutchings (01:39:46):
Oh, you did it? No, that was great. Alright,

Leigh Chalker (01:39:49):
Man. Look, Hey dude, I may be old man, but I can, I can do pretty quick. Get done

Ben Hutchings (01:39:55):
<laugh>.

Leigh Chalker (01:39:57):
I’m like super keen on what, what we’re talking about here, man. I don’t wanna like interrupt it like I’m vibing.

Ben Hutchings (01:40:03):
Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:40:03):
Dude. I love the, I love the idea of, um, that public, um, space and just, that would’ve been really cool and motivating me, like coming in and seeing people and meeting, like, you know, even just that comment just then from that, um, young person and, and Nick May about his daughters, you know, like having, had they’d met you or been to one of those things, you know, and like they’ve got their coasters and that person’s in a magazine now, you know, because you’ve you’ve motivated ’em and stuff. That’s good. That’s, that’s doing, um, that’s doing great work. I was in

Ben Hutchings (01:40:35):
A magazine, I missed that. What was that?

Leigh Chalker (01:40:37):
Yeah, that was that, uh, young lady earlier that, uh, you in, she met you at, um, the the Federation Square thing. You Wow. Yeah. She’s gone on and, um, to possibly contribute to a magazine or done her own magazine, if I remember correctly.

Ben Hutchings (01:40:54):
Oh yeah. No. Yes. She’s making zines and she’s got the zine in the Ballarat. Uh, do you know what she’s talking about? It’s a, it’s a, there’s this thing they do, there’s, there’s quite a few of ’em around now. There’s, there’s vending zine, vending machines, and zine of course, meaning really homemade, you know, magazines like mini comics or zines, and they’re filled with zines and you, I guess you put money in and turn the crank and a zine comes out that you want like buying a chocolate bar, but you buy zine. Ballarat have one. Um, uh, Geelong have one in their library on, on level two, I think. And that’s

Leigh Chalker (01:41:28):
Amazing.

Ben Hutchings (01:41:29):
Sticky Institute have one. There’s one in Canberra, but I don’t know exactly where they are. But, um, isn’t that funny? That’s just a thing now. Um,

Leigh Chalker (01:41:38):
It’s not a thing where I’m from. That’s so cool. Like, just, you know, you know, I’m gonna get a pack of chips, I’m gonna get a mini mag. You know, mini Z community

Ben Hutchings (01:41:48):
Is amazing. Like, like that’s kind of not new, but over the past 20, it wasn’t around. I mean, of course it was around, but I’ve watched that grow from a very small underground thing to a giant thing that it is now. Um, in 2024, like zine vending machine, who would’ve thought like, and, and zines and comics are pretty, especially you. The self-made self self-published comics are very closely related. Very, a lot of overlap. Um, it’s incredible. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:42:20):
That is amazing. How does anyone did, I mean, like, this is just a random question. I don’t know if you’ve got the answer to it, but how does someone that makes mini mags get themselves into a mag vending machine? Because I’m sure that would be a cool thing for people that are making minis down there, man, like, you know, my magazine and a vending machine. ’cause that would be awesome, <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (01:42:45):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:42:46):
That cool, you know? Yeah. But if anyone doesn’t out there listening and they find out just, um, you know, drop us a line sometime, you know, like on, uh, COMEX on any of the shows or chinwag or something in the future episode or, you know, whenever, if you ever find out who’s running that stuff and we No,

Ben Hutchings (01:43:02):
You would just Google it. That’s how you do it. Google Ballarat zine vending machine. That’s what I’m gonna do. Um hmm. Yeah, that’s sounds cool. Why

Leigh Chalker (01:43:09):
Think of that? You know, I’m always getting so dramatic and see over enthusiastic and you’re like, Mr. Cool. Like, you just, just, you know, like a Google Ballarat vending machine, meaning, oh, right, <laugh>,

(01:43:22)
That’s cool, man. I like your way better. You know, like I’m, I’m getting everyone in a fuss, you know, like there’s, the office has like, got paperwork going everywhere, like, Lee’s just done it again, you know, like <laugh>. But you know, that’s the fluidity of the nature meant. So that’s what it is. Um, now you were saying you didn’t have much time, you know, like with squish face, because you know, you’re a busy man, like you’re a busy man and you’re doing, you got, you know, you, you, you’re publishing, you’ve published and you’re, you’re doing things through a squish face, but you can’t quite get there yet because obviously you’re taking on, um, illustration work where you can get them, um, and things. Um, what, what, uh, like, I guess what, what differentiates like a squish face product to your own, um, illustration work? Like, ’cause I, I’ve never actually seen a squish face product mate, so like, treat me like I’m an egghead Mm-Hmm.

(01:44:20)
<affirmative>, everyone else does So, you know, like we may as well, you know, like, you know, uh, continue the trend. Um, because I, I like to be the, the, the bloke who doesn’t know anything and likes everything new. So were you were like, uh, were you like a group of artists and other people may not know either. Were you like a group of creatives that sitting around your long table or talking as you were doing? Um, we are working out stories together and vibing off each other, or were you doing anthology type things or were you doing separate, um, projects and you know, like helping each other and vibing off each other and stuff? How did that all work in that system? Separate

Ben Hutchings (01:45:04):
Projects, nearly always. Yeah. We were all working on our own thing all at different stages in our career. Some of us were really ambitious, some of us just, uh, having fun. I think we were all kind of ambitious. We all wanted to go somewhere with it. Um, uh, but, but yeah, nearly always working on our own stuff and, um, different people over the years as well. Um, yep. Yeah. And occasionally we did do anthologies. One day we got some funding to do a public art project. Um, and so we decided that our public art project would be to do a comic that you would put in the, um, in the bus shelter in the train station somewhere, maybe put on a little wall-mounted thing and have a comic about Brunswick in the, uh, in the, in the thing. And it was actually David’s idea, David Stein’s idea to do this.

(01:45:59)
And we called it Squish z Bruns Town. And, uh, and it had this cool colour front cover, and I did the cover. It was these two giant women sitting on the top of a building, Brunswick building. And we employed all these people, not employed, but we, we, we reached out to all these cartoonists to do a comic about Brunswick. If you’ve got a thought about Brunswick, if you’ve got experience in Brunswick that you wanna talk about in a comic form, uh, sent, send us your comics. And they did. They sent us all these really nice full colour comics about various different things, but all based about, you know, on on, on the, the suburb Brunswick on the area. And then we, yeah, pub published that. It was one of the best things we ever did was this really cool comic. I think we did 2000 copies or something and didn’t put it at the bus station.

(01:46:43)
We just sort of gave it away. And, and I think we might have put a few copies in the local cafes maybe, but many of them, we just gave them away. People came by the studio to get ’em, and they loved them. Everyone loved them. We, they just disappeared in a, in a heartbeat. And, um, I think, um, uh, well, I dunno what, I think it was great. It was a great, it was a great comic squishing bru town. We, we, we took a long time and then we did a, a second and third one. Um, a few years later, um, we sort of got sidetracked again and then go, oh, we should have done more of them. And we did a couple more stories about Brunwick. It’s all, it was three issues of squishing bru town, this free comic. It’s really cool. Like, I’m not sure. I might have, if you just gimme a second.

Leigh Chalker (01:47:30):
Yeah, man. Yeah. You dig into that portal, man. If you can find one,

Ben Hutchings (01:47:35):
I might have one if by chance I’ve grabbed one in this. Oh look, just Parker, she’s one of the long term squish face studio members, but she’s great. She’s in that room just there. I think I, yeah, with her. But she’s a great cartoonist and she was one of the ones who sat next to me. And like, we went through the same struggles and stuff. Comic making is a struggle often. Yeah. You’d find yourself frustrated and, and things don’t work out and, and that sort of thing. So we had a great time. Here’s another guy, Chris Gooch, he’s world famous. Now you know him.

Leigh Chalker (01:48:10):
I have heard of Chris Gooch. I’ve never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I have heard of him.

Ben Hutchings (01:48:15):
So I met him through, look at that nice graph. Blue, blue printing. He, um, he, um, this is probably some obscure thing that’s disappeared now, but he, I met him through squish face. He joined and was in there all the time, working so hard next to me and Jess and, and David. And, and he, he pumps out kind. He’s so prolific. Yeah, I don’t see much anymore, but he lives quite nearby. But I, I don’t see, you know, we we’re still in contact I guess. But, um, he, he went on to be really successful just as an in, as an alternative comic artist, like graphic novelist. He’s amazing. That’s another just one, this squish scene. Bruns Town number two, look at that. It’s a nice cool picture of of the back alleys of Brunswick. Cool. Brunswick’s a really good place to draw. It’s, it’s got a lot of character. And, um, and look at the inside printing was sort of two colour graph printing. That’s Sarah Catherine Firth there, who just happened to show up. She was involved in that. She’s, she’s, you should talk to her sometime. Oh, look, there’s I Iron Bar Ball Listo story that I did for it.

Leigh Chalker (01:49:17):
How cool is that?

Ben Hutchings (01:49:19):
But these are, these are free. We just gave them away. Um, oh look, here’s, here’s number three. Look at that. That’s my front cover. That’s this picture of Sydney Road, Brun Brunswick. It’s a three colour <crosstalk>,

Leigh Chalker (01:49:29):
That’s man,

Ben Hutchings (01:49:31):
Blue and red and, and a nice yellow there. Yeah, we were, we were really, um, really proud of those comics. They, they turned out so fun and so, so cool and silly. I’m glad that they came out in my hand when I pulled that random water,

Leigh Chalker (01:49:45):
Man. It’s like, it was like, it was predestined, man. But, um, just briefly, Ben, sorry to interrupt. Allison, thank you for enjoying Chinwag and, uh, I, I’m very appreciative and Ben will be too, that you’re enjoying the show. So, um, yeah, I enjoy spending these Tuesday nights doing this mate and getting to meet people and getting to meet, uh, people that, um, watch it and, uh, comment and everything. I’m very grateful, so thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But no mate, that was, um, that was amazing. Amazing pickup, man. You know, like if I’ve got these things and then suddenly bang, you know, like there you go. You’re like a magician bent, you know, <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (01:50:21):
Thanks. But you asked about the squish face, um, a squish face book. I should run out there right now. And just quickly grab something as well. Oh, by the way, KA of Brunswick, that’s another squish face published book that’s not by me, it’s by my h other housemate, other housemate cartoons. ’cause I live with three other cartoonists, um, Alex Clark. And that’s, that’s independent bookshops. It’s just like random stories about little cats that she meets. And I, um, I published this ’cause it was the best seller from Squish face as a zine. It was the best seller. And I said, let me do a book of them. ’cause I, I, I just want to, and it was, uh, it’s

Leigh Chalker (01:50:59):
Got cats, man, who can go, like, no one can go wrong with cats and dogs and stuff. I love. Yeah man, that’s cool. La that’s

Ben Hutchings (01:51:08):
Groovy. I should put that on. I haven’t put that up on the squish face, so, oh man, I gotta get my shit stuffed together. I got <laugh>. But wait there, wait one second.

Leigh Chalker (01:51:16):
It’s alright mate. I’ll keep the screen warm for you. Look

Ben Hutchings (01:51:20):
At that ledger award.

Leigh Chalker (01:51:21):
Just imagine will admire wooden panel, the the wooden ledger inspiration. Hang on a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See you look at that. That’s cool. As, um, well, Ben’s away. Anyone watching, uh, on the Comex Stream, there are other shows that, uh, you can watch. Thursday night is, um, drawing a comic book with a new character, um, coming up. That’s, uh, seven 30 Thursday night. You can see that on, uh, comics, uh, YouTube and Facebook and stuff. You can see Friday night drink and draws. You can see, um, recent reads, the Aus Comics Show. So just keep an eye out on the comic sites like ’em and subscribe ’em anywhere. You can find ’em and grow that algorithm in the tree. So I guess to more people and, um, you know, like the more people, the merrier. Beautiful. And look who’s back, it’s Ben Hu and, uh, comic show. That’s where you want to go for that address right there. And, uh, and get back. Alright mate, so if you weren’t go along <laugh>, if you weren’t go along

Ben Hutchings (01:52:24):
The, the front door right? Is, is just inside our front. There’s just, you know, when you do comics, there’s boxes and boxes of comics that you’ve gotta hold onto for hopefully not the rest. Yeah. Copy. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what our, the intro, <laugh> entrance to our house is like, it’s just mainly mine. There’s, there’s copies of

Leigh Chalker (01:52:41):
These books. <laugh>. Yeah. I just

Ben Hutchings (01:52:42):
Ran out there to get a couple, but, um, Katz of Brunswick is one of them. That’s a squish Face Studio book by Alex Clark. Yeah, I, um, put that around the place. It should be in my shop, so I’ll put it up after this show, I promise in the studio. This is my, um, I won’t No, no, I’m gonna put that off because you were asking I, I’ll, I’ll talk about that in a sec. You were asking about anthologies in the Squish Face book. Yep. This one here. David came up with this, he put this together. This is Squish book. This is kind of his baby as well, like, like squishy in Bruns Town. And then this is an anthology. And this is, yeah, this is a, a good, a good example of, of Squish face. Uh, I’m not sure if most of the people in this were squish face studio artists, but it’s got me and David and a bunch of other people.

(01:53:30)
Um, and it’s filled with comics and stuff like that. But also mainly it’s about, um, uh, it’s about the art of drawing comics, right? What’s involved and, and, and how to think and how you can do it and stuff like that. It’s for young kids, right? So yeah. Um, filled with comics, but also sort of little segments and features on drawing exercises and, and, uh, why you would draw comics and, and just really quite random stuff. It’s very funny. He edited this and wrote this and thought it out and put it all together. And he’s been going around, um, uh, Australia really, um, doing all kinds of events. Again, you can find out about ’em through the, the Instagram, but the next one will be in Canberra. Uh, not the next one, but one of them coming up will be in Canberra, uh, um, on the 19th of July, I think. Um, and I’ll be there, I’ll, I’ll be going back with him to do a, an event at Smith’s alternative bookshop to, to talk about drawing. Do do a little workshop for kiddos. But David’s been doing tonnes of them. Um, and, and that’s a squish face book. That’s a squish face book, so that’s cool. So, so do

Leigh Chalker (01:54:43):
Check out Nick, Nick may got it. ’cause Nick may just put a comment up while you were talking, saying Squish book is cool, man. Like, we’ve got this

Ben Hutchings (01:54:51):
Good. So he might have one. Yeah. That’s really cool. It is a good book. It’s really interesting. It’s, it’s an interesting book. Um, so that’s one of the, one of the ones that we’ve got. It’s a squish face studio publication, I think.

Leigh Chalker (01:55:03):
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s awesome, man. Teaching kids, you know, like in young people to like, just the thoughts and the processes of drawing and stuff by people who, man, it’s a beautiful thing, you know? Um,

Ben Hutchings (01:55:15):
And, and, and, uh, yeah, yeah, it’s a really cool concept. Um, so he’s going hardcore travelling all around. I’m going with him a lot of the time to sit at d different book festivals and, and, and zine fairs and book fairs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And random events at libraries and that sort of thing. So, so if you, you know, visit our Instagram and, and you’ll, you’ll, you’ll find out when he’s coming to town. ’cause he probably is coming to your town at some point. Um, uh, uh, another, uh, when you said, you know, I was saying I I’ve been really busy. Um, this is, this is my, this is Squish Face Studio book. This is by me. Yep. That’s a, it’s very different than You Stink. And I don’t, it’s a kid’s book. I’ll just put it on my shoulder like a parrot. And it’s a, it’s about a, a, um, little girly shrinks That’s Minnie Mel, yeah. Riding around on the back of her cat. And that was the concept I had in my brain. I thought, I gotta write a story about these guys. And it was a long time ago, but it took me a long time. And I wrote this nice huge 111 page, um, epic story. And, and it’s colour.

(01:56:18)
It’s the full colour book.

(01:56:23)
And, um, and that’s my, one of my best ever creations. I think. I, I think I’m the most proud of that. It’s just really cute. And it’s funny and it’s not, it’s not rude or anything. It’s, it’s for young kids. Um, yeah. Yeah. Uh, I love it’s about Canberra, like it’s set in Canberra. It’s not about set in Canberra, so it has a lot of Canberra and themes, which you would know if you are from there. Yeah. You would recognise some of the places. So I was really proud of that book. And, um, yeah, that,

Leigh Chalker (01:56:48):
How long did it take you to do that? You said it was a big one for you, fully coloured and everything, and you said it took you a while. So what were you thinking there? You would’ve been in between other projects and coming back to that? Or was that <crosstalk>?

Ben Hutchings (01:56:58):
It was always, no, it was always way down the list on priorities for some reason. It should have been at the top, but, but it, it was not. And, and so the first idea, the first concept I had for it was in like 2003. And the book came in in 2009 19. So the first sketch over did of those characters was 2003. So I actually got moving on it and got serious about finishing it. It would’ve just been maybe a, a year or something. It was, it was a, it was a long time even so, but to do one of those books, um, to do that book, yeah, it was, was, um, uh, if I, if I just sat and did it and nothing else, yeah, I could probably knock it out. It would still take a few months for sure. Yeah. It would absolutely take half a year at least.

(01:57:43)
Uh, as it is I’m doing everything else, earning a living and stuff. So yeah, it’s the slowest thing ever. But, but the reason I’m not going to s squeeze face much is because I’ve done number one, number one did really well. It was one of my best sort of successful things. I just self promoted, like with all the zines and stuff, taking it to the shops myself by hand in a bag. I turn up and say, I’m Ben, look at this book. Do you wanna stock this book? You know, and just doing that all around Melbourne. Um, so it’s been a big, it’s a big, that side of comics is huge. Like completely separate from drawing. Uh, you know, this, you know, this, you would know this from doing your own comic, right? Like, getting it out there is killer. It’s, uh, it’s, it’s more work than drawing, wouldn’t you say? Like, like it’s,

Leigh Chalker (01:58:27):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, um, I, I suffer the, that’s the double-edged sword of it, isn’t it, man. Do you know what I mean? Like, you wanna stay at home and you do the drawing, but then you gotta have that salesman sales face on mate. You know, like where you gotta try and do everything you can to promote it and get it out there and get people interested and sell it and convince people and have your blurbs and have, you know, like you got, it’s, it’s an all encompassing, um, uh, craft mate. Yeah. You know,

Ben Hutchings (01:59:03):
Some are better at it than others. I’m never been great at it. I don’t have a big following on online either. And I hate online. I don’t like it. I’m not good at it. And so even if I do promote something brilliantly, there’s not that many people gonna see it. But anyway, I tried to sell this book. I tried to get a publisher for a long time. I couldn’t get one, so I just did it, did it myself, right? Yep. It took a long time, but amazingly through a different, ah, do I need to rush out there again? I think I do. I think I’m gonna, you

Leigh Chalker (01:59:34):
Can if you want to, mate. It’s all good. <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (01:59:38):
I don’t need

Ben Hutchings (01:59:39):
To, I’m just gonna tell you this big long

Ben Hutchings (01:59:41):
Story. Um, I, in 2019, so

Ben Hutchings (01:59:47):
When, when, when I left off, um, I was talking about, uh, in my career, right? It was, uh, tells in the pub, right? And I did that for 11 years. Yeah. And that ended, and then there were a few years where I was desperate. I couldn’t get work at all. I was really poor and really struggling and, um, and was in between every, I didn’t know what to do, was hardly making any money. Uh, and uh, at one point these people contacted me out of the blue, these scientists, and they were interesting and unusual, uh, little very much into science, very much into microbiology, you know, very, I could tell really passionate about it. And, um, and they had an idea. They’d done some books, they’d done some books, kids’ books about, um, bacteria and, and so on, and wanted to move into graphic novels.

(02:00:40)
And, um, uh, they were trying to find someone to draw their graphic novel for them. And they, I believe they asked Sam Warman, who, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that name. I’m not, I’m not, he’s extremely good, uh, political, uh, cartoonist, um, down here in Melbourne. Um, he said, that’s not really for me, but Ben will do it, right? And he didn’t say that. He, he doesn’t, he didn’t know that. He said, try Ben. Right? That’s what he said. And, and, and, and they, they came to me and, and said, oh, could you do this? You’re doing comic here. Here’s what I’m talking about. You know, like, like, it’s gonna be about, um, uh, dysentery, right? And it’s gonna be about all the germs and all the biological warfare going on and stuff like this. And, um, they showed me this little picture of, of what it would look like, maybe just something they’d seen, which is a six comic panel, really simple comic panel of a single little shaped blob going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, and landing, completely black background, this white thing.

(02:01:40)
And I said, oh, yeah, we are thinking this sort of thing, you know? And I looked at, oh, yeah. And they showed me the, um, the, uh, I didn’t really think about it much, but they showed me, they showed me the, um, uh, the script. And I, I thought that’s pretty dynamic. And the script was amazing. It was, it was, it was really incredible. And I, I think I, I think I didn’t really pay attention at the time. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Then later on they came back and said, we’ve done the script. Can you, can you look at the script? And, and yeah, the script was an adventure. It was action, it was set in the World War I it was for all this stuff happening. It was so dense, really dense. And these sprawling scenes of like gut bacteria done in microscopic level, but also humans zoom out and there’s humans and, and, and soldiers and all kinds of detail.

(02:02:28)
And I said, uh, you guys want this to be like 32 pages, but this has to be at least double that. It has to be, I’m not gonna be able to draw this. If you keep it that small. There’s too much, even the words alone, right. Because often people don’t realise, you know, how much a comic fill to get across the information. Right? Yeah. And it was written by a, a prolific children’s author called Elsa Wild. There was a lot of people working on it, but I was gonna be the artist. And I, I, I took it on and, um, and I had all this input, tonnes of input into how they should sort of write it and how it should go and stuff like that. Like, like directing almost, I think. I think that maybe like, you know, it’s like the script, a movie script and the di the director, ’cause I’m making the visuals, right? So Yep. Sort of thought a little bit. I wouldn’t say director, like, like it was written, the story had to go a certain way. But, but I, I was thinking of in terms of the flow of it and stuff like that, angles and stuff. But I was not envisioning it like black, a little tiny thing going. I was imagining sprawling, sprawling explosions and dime camera angles and all this stuff. And I was

Leigh Chalker (02:03:34):
Imagining at this stage, you are into it. You are, you’ve read the script, you’re digging who you work, and with your imagination, just, wow, we can, we can make this, yeah, we could rock this. I,

Ben Hutchings (02:03:45):
I could vision it. And they, they send me a lot of, uh, a lot of, um, sort of, uh, kind of reference material. The, you know, the electron microscope, pho scope photos, which were really useful. Yeah. And also, they sent me a lot of artwork, which, which probably wasn’t so useful. I, I, I wanted to, to be very literal in terms of scale. So the scale was always absolutely accurate. You wouldn’t be able to see a little, uh, bacteria walking up to a hair because the scale’s wrong. The bacteria is like seventh the width of a hair. So I wanted it to be completely accurate in terms of scale. And that blew my own mind and was so difficult for me because I’m not a scientist at all. And this is a, actually a really new subject to me, but I still had strong ideas about how I want it to be done.

(02:04:31)
’cause I don’t like artwork. I don’t like science artwork. That is misleading, right? Yep. I kept thinking of those. Um, uh, um, when they show space and they show those diagrams of all the different planets, and they show ’em all together with the relative size and they show ’em all moving around, it’s just like, no, they’re not that big man. They’re not that close. They’re really small and really far away do it. Right? Because my whole life, I got that wrong. And I don’t want anyone to get this wrong. I want the scale to be absolutely spot on, right? Yeah. But anyway, the invisible war, that, that was, that was what it was called, the invisible war. And, and, and it was, that’s my front cover there. And it’s an okay cover. I admit the designs are right, it’s fine. But, um, yeah, it was like this amazing black and white, uh, drawing experience. I really, I, I, I would say, I’d say I enjoyed it. Huh.

Leigh Chalker (02:05:23):
It’s beautiful. The cover’s great, man. The interior that I just saw there, thankly two men,

Ben Hutchings (02:05:29):
I’ll show you the best. It’s got a huge in, it’s got a huge appendix, like, like as in the, the, the, the, um, science bit. But here’s a page that I sort of fought to put in. I think that was my invention, saying, could I please just do a page before we get into it showing all of these different bacteria and what they do? I think that was my idea. Maybe. Yeah. But, but, but I just thought that was important. So we could just get some real nice visuals. And they do look like that. This is what they look like. Literally. They look like this, these little guys, all these different ones. And um, and, uh, I was drawing that, and they’re all in mucus that, that stuff, there’s mucus. And, uh, and so this story is amazing because it, it’s called The Invisible War because it’s about dysentery.

(02:06:12)
It’s about the, how the body fights, um, invading, you know, sickness and stuff and all, all the different ways it does it on a microscopic level, showing it like a war, like a battle. Uh, but also zooms out to the human level and shows the, the real, you know, the, the war, the battle, the fighting with how people were fighting each other with guns and killing each other and dying. And so it’s <laugh> an Australian, Australian history sort of story. But it, it, it kind of, um, moves back and forth between going down into this, this nurse who contracts dys dysentery and, uh, moves between her guts as the battlefield and the, the, the actual battle of battlefield. But that was the invis war that that came out in. Um, that’s that’s

Leigh Chalker (02:07:00):
An amazing concept. Like

Ben Hutchings (02:07:02):
It’s really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it was sort of the concept of this, this, um, uh, the, these guys Scale free network is the name of the publisher. These, these creators. And they’ve got a pretty big team. I guess. It’s like, um, there’s, there’s about five of us working on it. But, um, uh, that came out in 2019 and one tonnes of awards and stuff, it did really well. Won like seven awards or maybe at least like, you know, like nominations and, and things and just covered in stickers. There’s only two on that one that there’s heaps, um, because you’ve run outta stickers, right? So when you win, they send you stickers to put on your own book. Right. That, that’s really cool. But, um, so that, that did well, and I’ve even got a actually slip pullies out because it got published all over the world, right? Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (02:07:50):
Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (02:07:52):
Got published in, uh, Egypt.

Ben Hutchings (02:07:55):
Oh, that’s my camera. Whoops.

Leigh Chalker (02:07:58):
<laugh> man down. Hopefully it’s okay.

Ben Hutchings (02:08:03):
Uh, yeah, my room’s filled with stuff. That’s the Egyptian version. That’s the Egyptian Invisible War. Exactly the same book. But

Leigh Chalker (02:08:16):
That’s unreal, man. How did it feel to like, have it, um, translated into another language? Man,

Ben Hutchings (02:08:22):
Really good. But, um, it, that

Ben Hutchings (02:08:25):
Didn’t stop there. Here’s the Korean version. That’s a little, little version.

Leigh Chalker (02:08:32):
Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (02:08:33):
And isn’t that not, well, isn’t that nice? Like, they just picked a, a different, slightly different background. They did their own. That’s why I was a bit down on my own, on my own, um, on my own design when I saw the other designs are a little, little nicer, a bit more refine, nicer colour. But that looks good, doesn’t it? And it’s a very thick little book and, and it just looks good. And there it is in Korean and Australian.

Leigh Chalker (02:08:57):
It’s hard

Ben Hutchings (02:08:57):
To get this published in a lot of places. The only reason, the only hurdle with it is it’s a very Australian story. So I think, um,

Ben Hutchings (02:09:08):
You know, that that’s one thing.

Ben Hutchings (02:09:10):
But it’s got broad appeal because all about science, all about World War I, blah, blah, blah. But check out the American version that’s not translated, that’s just the American Edition. So they got a nice cool logo there, and it’s got a nice hard cover. I believe the <crosstalk> too.

Leigh Chalker (02:09:25):
Yeah, well, they’ve done that flash, haven’t they? You know, like,

Ben Hutchings (02:09:29):
Yeah. And I think they shrunk the appendix a bit, but that’s, I like that, that’s a really nice small version of it created by Brownie Briany Bar and Dr. Gregory Chetty, I still don’t know how to pronounce his name ’cause I don’t say it out loud enough, but he came up with the concept, Briany and him, I think worked together for the general sort of, um, direction of the story. And then as the Wild is the, the author who wrote all the words and how it all works, and, uh, and he’s this other fellow, Dr. Jerry VAs, the consultant guy who kept the science, um, cutting edge so that we can get anything

Leigh Chalker (02:10:07):
Wrong.

Ben Hutchings (02:10:08):
Meticulous, my God, they’re so meticulous. He didn’t wanna get anything at all wrong and misleading with the science of it all. I was just say, okay, sure, I’ll change that word or whatever illustrated by me down the bottom. But that was, that was big. That, that’s in bookshops. I’m not sure,

Ben Hutchings (02:10:25):
Um, exactly which bookshops, but

Ben Hutchings (02:10:28):
Should be able to find that in most major ones. Um, that was a big deal. That was a really big deal for me. Yeah. Uh, the first time I got contacted to do a, um, tale from the pub was really good, but it, it had ended and it was all gone now. And, and, and so, and I always did want to get into graphic novels, so I was the first one. I didn’t get paid tonnes. I didn’t have tonnes of money or anything, but yeah. And, and I remember that, um, they were, it, I didn’t get much time to do it. Like, like I, I got plenty of time to pencil the entire book out, all of the work, but to ink it, they didn’t want to get me to start because there were all these things they had to get right. They didn’t want to make a book with any errors about any misleading stuff that’d triple check it with other scientists.

(02:11:14)
And, and, and before they would give me the go ahead and in the end I only got, uh, I think, I think two months, maybe two months, uh, to, to draw, to ink it to ink, the whole thing. And um, and it was, oh man, I remember it was Christmas and I was looking up, I was, I was just like, um, it was around Christmas and I was uh, like looking at horrific photos of men with the face and just, they used to do that surgery with the rubber masks and all this weird stuff and skin grafts and from, from a hundred years ago. And it was difficult because there’s, there’s actually not a lot of reference from that time of World War I, not of World War I, you know, if you wanna know what a barge looked like or you know, a tank or they didn’t have tanks, did they? Did they?

Leigh Chalker (02:12:07):
Yeah, they did. Oh yeah. They were introducing them around that time. Remember those weird little odd shape ones that kept getting like, um, you see a lot of images of ’em, they’re like upside down in trenches and stuff. That’s

Ben Hutchings (02:12:19):
Right. All that stuff. I’m sure museums would, would have everything I needed, but, but not Google. Right. And, and, and I wasn’t always around a museum, so. Yeah. Um, um, that was, uh, that was tricky Drawing that was, was tricky. You needed to know exactly what the, I wanted to get it all right. Right. I wanted to, for it to be, I didn’t want any historian to be saying they didn’t drive that kind of truck, you know, because that, that’s what they’re like <laugh> some of those old guys.

Leigh Chalker (02:12:48):
Well, suppose when you’re doing those historical things like that too, man, you know, like, oh, thanks. What do we got here? Scissors brought up all the, my God, most underrated book of 2017 seven 2017 Ledger award, shortlisted project. You got the Children’s Book of the Year awards, notable book, the 65th Australian Book Design Awards winner, overall winner Educational Publishing Awards, Australia 2017, and the something Children’s Science Book Award, man.

Ben Hutchings (02:13:23):
Yeah. Did

Leigh Chalker (02:13:23):
You have enough, was there enough room in the car to get home all of those awards for all of you, man? Like, come on. Like, look at that. Like, where, where did somebody go to get a copy like that? You said they were possibly in like, um, you know, bookshops around Australia and things like that. Or I guess people can order them from their bookshops and things like that. Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (02:13:46):
Yeah. And I believe, I don’t, I should have ’em on the squish face. Etsy. They should be there, but, um, it’s not a squish face book, but it’s there anyway. Um, you know, they give you copies to sell. It should be in the bookshops and libraries. Yeah. Um, I haven’t really checked, but, uh,

Leigh Chalker (02:14:04):
Because the invisible war sounds like, man, like, you know, like if you win, you’re winning that many things, man. You know, like then, uh, not even that look, just be having you do the artwork, man. ’cause I’m liking what you’re putting down, like from what I’m seeing tonight. You got a new fan here in me. Oh, thanks. You met my pleasure, mate. Um, uh, it says it’s in Booktopia, says Siz. So anyone else,

Ben Hutchings (02:14:27):
You know, I should know that, but yeah, thank you. Book

Leigh Chalker (02:14:29):
Booktopia. Booktopia. There you go. Now I wanna bring,

Ben Hutchings (02:14:34):
I’m sure you’ve got a box of them down there, so if you,

Leigh Chalker (02:14:37):
Well, there you go. You can go to Squish face or you can drop Ben and Ben a line and you know, like you can say, Hey man, do you know I want some of those comics outta outta your box there. Um, mm, I’ve noticed that you said a name and uh, you know, because this is what got me today, now from the creators of the Multi-award winning Stem, STEM, comic, the Invisible War. Uh, what brought me to this Ben, ’cause you can keep talking about it, but I connected the dots here, man, because several of the people that you were just talking about did that with you are involved in your book that’s coming up soon. Um,

Ben Hutchings (02:15:18):
That, that was the segue,

Leigh Chalker (02:15:21):
Which is Follow Your Gap.

Ben Hutchings (02:15:25):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:15:26):
You are working with the same crew here, mate,

Ben Hutchings (02:15:29):
The same crew. So, um, maybe I, I don’t know, should the conversation go straight to or should I just, I I did a couple of other books in between.

Leigh Chalker (02:15:39):
We can go to all the other books in between, mate. This is, this is huge. That was the

Ben Hutchings (02:15:43):
First one. That was, that was great. I was really happy with, yeah. Okay, Mel, that’s Mel <laugh>

Leigh Chalker (02:15:47):
Bring more pp to, can I

Ben Hutchings (02:15:51):
Just listen to see the, to-do list, go on the website and put up this thing and go to Canberra and give more. You, I want, it’s just,

Leigh Chalker (02:16:00):
I

Ben Hutchings (02:16:00):
Just wanna, I just wanna draw, man. I just wanna draw <laugh> back. Everyone. I don’t want you to have the comic. I don’t want the comic to be seen by anyone. I just wanna draw it. Um, uh, uh, uh, uh, what am I saying? I really, what was

Leigh Chalker (02:16:15):
The segue into the comics in between Follow You? That

Ben Hutchings (02:16:18):
Was it, that was the start. Since then, since that book, I have been, um, um, uh, um, kind of in, you know, doing books. It’s, it’s been really good. Was why all What I always Wanted was to be doing books. So, so that was my first one. And, and that was a big deal for me. And then I think I did another one called the next one. I did, do you wanna see it? It’s called Personal. Yeah, Proctor. It’s not a comic, but this is a, what do you call, like, a self, like a vanity project by this guy called. And he wrote this really cool book and he is down in, um, personal Proctor Monster doctor. And that’s another one. I think you could just get that online. Just look it up. Right? It’s in DIMMs, I believe. Um, uh, and it’s nice, nice little rhyming kids book about a monster doctor. Like, he’s like a, like a doctor for monsters. And it’s filled with really cute. Oh, here’s my best one. Um, this little guy, lots of detail, nice colour. It’s this doctor. And he, and he treats

Leigh Chalker (02:17:19):
Al told you to keep drawing Ben Hill. Come get him himself. <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (02:17:24):
Yeah. Yeah, I’m coming to member. Yeah, I’ll bring some, I I absolutely will do that. Or if I don’t, I’ll just send them. But yes, thank you. Thank you, Mel. But yeah, this is a cool, this was a cool book. I did that slowly over actually a few years. Like I was really, really slow. Um, yeah, I was thinking doing other stuff. But, um, uh, uh, I want to show you one, show some

Leigh Chalker (02:17:44):
More art. Show us some more art, Ben. Yeah, I

Ben Hutchings (02:17:46):
Know, I know. And I’m just trying to find like the best ones. Here’s um, here he Oh, that’s a good one. He’s, oh yeah. All these little guys. Um, Percival, Proctor, monster Doctor. And I don’t have any copies of this or anything like that. And, and I don’t really sell it. So you should, if you’re watching and you want it, please look it up and please buy some, it’s a really, I keep going. So you say it’s really nice, like, my art is really nice because it is. I’m not being modest. It’s really nice. Look at, look at that guy.

Leigh Chalker (02:18:19):
That’s cool.

Ben Hutchings (02:18:20):
And it’s all in rhyme. The doctors, they visit all run off in fear before those poor monsters can even get near just to see one in person would give you off. Right. But a monster that’s sick is one heck of a site. So it’s a, it’s all like that. It’s about this little guy who, who treats monsters. It’s very cute. Um, yeah, yeah, I did that. That’s my next book by Nick Ary. So please do look that up. That was one that they, I, for some reason I didn’t talk about it much or try to promote it very much, but if you’re watching, please get some of those. Um, there’s a hard cover and a soft cover. Um, but then the next thing that happened, I showed you Invisible Wall got Thingy Me Jiggered. Oh yeah. Um, one day I was at this place called Planet Earth. Um, anyway, um, these people contacted me,

Leigh Chalker (02:19:07):
<laugh>, is that a shop or is that just where we’re at? You know, where we’re at? And,

Ben Hutchings (02:19:13):
Um, these folks contacted me, right? And, and um, they did a language book, and it was an Italian language book. And their old artist had passed away a long time ago, and they’d been making this book for years and years and needed an artist to draw it, but they couldn’t find the right guy. They really said this, right. We’ve been looking for hundreds of people. And, and, and that’s new normally a warning sign, right? That, that, that’s normally a red flag. If you, if you meet a client and he’s go, I’ve tried everyone and no one’s good enough. You go, oh shit, this guy’s gonna be a nightmare to work with. That’s what that means. No one wants to. That’s what I thought it meant, right? Yeah, yeah. But it didn’t, they were looking for this specific kind of artist, someone who would fit the bill.

(02:19:58)
And, and they said, we do this book, and it’s called Avanti. It’s called Avanti. And it’s this old book that that had been for generations been published, reprinted and reprinted and reprinted, but it’s filled with comics and it’s all told in comics. And, um, and I’d never heard of it, but they, they needed to make some new books now ’cause they’ve been just reprinting this same one again. But we wanna make a new one now. And it’s about the children of the characters in this first one. They’re the ones doing the, the comics are in that format of language learning, you know what I mean? Like, on tv, like there’s, I would like a cup of tea, you know, that sort of thing. But, but, but, but it’s in comics as these kids in a classroom talking about this and that and the other. And so they showed me this old beat up copy of Avanti, right?

(02:20:41)
I never heard of it. And it was really old. And it was from about 1983 and it had all scribbles on it. And it was all dogeared. And I, I thought, man, the artwork was amazing. Um, and you know what? I should have looked up his name. Phil. Phil, somebody, the original artist of Avanti. But the artwork was, was great. I could tell that his influences this old guy who’d illustrated this book, I could tell that his influences were, were similar to mine. Like, I could tell that he’d read Robert Crumb and, and Freak Brothers and, and all those old nineties ones, he had those, that old illustrative style, lots of cross ing and shading his different than My Style. But I could tell my style really kind of work. Yeah. I could see it as a similar kind of draw, similar kind of illustrator.

(02:21:26)
And, um, and, and, and then, so I, okay, cool, cool, cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think I’d be interested in this and okay. And, and, and, um, and I went home with this book. They lent it to me. They didn’t give it to me. They lent it to me. ’cause it was one of the oldest remaining copies and it’s nowhere, anywhere, anywhere. And I told my flatmates and they was like, oh, yeah. And they started quoting the book. Like they’d grown up with the book. They knew the book. All these people that had spoke to. Oh yeah. And there’s this famous line, which is, um, uh, uh, what word is it? Bloody help s how do you say it? Jesus Christ Sem Every Type <laugh>.

Leigh Chalker (02:22:04):
You’re right, you own <laugh>.

Ben Hutchings (02:22:06):
Yeah. Yeah. They kept quoting this book to me. Uh, um, I should know the line. They, they kept quoting this book to me. The, the, what the characters would say. It was really famous. I didn’t know it was that famous, you know? Um, so I felt really honoured. Oh wow. That’s who these guys are. They’ve been in this game for so long, making these, and these books have been read by generations of people. Not me, obviously, but, but other people. Um, and, and so I agreed to do this next bunch of books. So that was my next big job, was doing Avanti. I did this new Avanti version called Avanti Tuta, which is the, like the next generation. It’s about the kids and it’s in full colour and so many illustrations. I forgot to say the old guy Philly choked the book with illustrations. Just every corner was a little worm or a tentacle, or a funny gorilla or a machine.

(02:22:56)
He, he just went, you know, in that cool old style of drawing, man, really nice, whimsical, funny, cool. A little bit underground too, a little bit like, like that kind of thing. And, um, so I was fighting. I was, I said, I wanna do that too. Can I do that as well? Let me just draw random stuff, please. And, and you put it all through and, and stuff like that so we can keep that energy. And at first, yeah, it, it took a long time. It took a little while for us all to, to get this nice, um, kind of, uh, uh, uh, relationship where, so they trusted me to do my thing, and my thing was correct for them. You know, they were really precious about it. Understandably. They were really precious and hesitant, you know, to do this new book. ’cause they, they put so much of themselves into this old one, and it’s kind of a really famous thing.

(02:23:43)
And, and, and eventually, yeah, we, we got into this real good role, and that was a great job. And the book was huge. Uh, it was a language, it was this giant volume, really thick, full colour colour way a tonne. And, and there’s a, like a accompanying book and stuff like that. So I still work. That’s, they’re my main job now. I work for them still. That was years ago. But, um, they, that won an award, won, won, won an award. And, and that was a big deal. And then, and then after that was, was the one we were gonna talk about, which is, um, fio Gut by the science guys,

Leigh Chalker (02:24:17):
You’re on a roll, man. Like, I’m on a roll coming out. Everywhere you’re working, you’re busier than a beaver mate. Like, it’s like, look at you. Go, man, I, I looked at this today and it didn’t catch me off guard at all because, um, obviously I, I, I, I’m open-minded with everything, man. If every anyone knows me, excuse me, I was just about to sneeze. Um, I love heaps of material. Like, I’m not sort of like blocked into like one, you know, like sort of comic book or book or anything like that. Don Tio, he looked it up. Looks pretty good. There you go, Don. Um, you’re getting a lot of love here from the people out there watching,

Ben Hutchings (02:25:06):
Watching the whole thing.

Leigh Chalker (02:25:09):
It’s good. Hey, don’t you love it? You know, it’s uplifting. Makes you feel good, man, spread love, put, that’s the <inaudible> way. And um, I love the fact that it does, it’s another educational book, but man, just like looking at it, say, obviously I haven’t read it, but like, it’s so cool how it’s like, from what I can see of it, man, it’s like basically raising a human being from inception and birth to like, to optimal health and describing how each of the, you know, ’cause you’ve got characters on the back here, like Biffy and Lacto and Roy and Rumi and Phage, and Rose and Eske, you know, like all these sorts of things. And they’re all involved. And you’ve got your, and you’ve got your, as you were saying, like, uh, earlier, like, you know, you’ve got your appendix, you know, like that’s going into further details and things like that. I mean, that’s, it’s a very impressive book. Like, I like the look of it. I like the feel and the shape of it and everything. Um, thanks. The artworks be like, the colours are wicked too. You know what I mean? They work, man. You know what I mean? Like, ’cause I’ve seen you black and white and so are people watching the show, but I’m looking at your, um, like your coloured work here too, man. And um,

Ben Hutchings (02:26:26):
Thank

Leigh Chalker (02:26:26):
You. I think it’s really lovely, man. You know, like you’re not scared to use lots of blacks when necessary, you know what I mean? Like, but then you’re happy to take it away a bit. Like on the other, here we go on the other page where you let the, the, you know, the, um, shapes and act as a landscape and things like that. Like, it’s really, really nice. Like, the other thing I wanna ask you is, um, when you’re doing the artwork, are you hand lettering this stuff and doing the work? Oh, okay. So

Ben Hutchings (02:26:54):
Yeah. I, I never settled, I never settled on how to do that. I originally, yeah, I wanted to, wanted to always do hand. I’m just not good at it. And so what I did was made a font of my handwriting, but even that looks like a font. It looks, it doesn’t look perfect. I think the, the end result was a real weird mixture of, of all of it. And I think, you know, my font of my handwriting, my actual handwriting and, and, and going digitally and fixing up so many letters and doing so much editing of letters, it ends up being just a sort of a weird, a nice kind of nice digital, neat version of my handwriting.

Leigh Chalker (02:27:35):
Yep, yep.

Ben Hutchings (02:27:36):
Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I love lettering, but it’s my weak spot. Like it’s my weak point. I I never quite got good at it. Um, but, uh, I, I do prefer it. I I prefer even messy handwriting to, to fonts, honestly.

Leigh Chalker (02:27:51):
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s good. Just like, man, I just, um, like, I like how you get a lot of, um, um, I’m just gonna leave this here to show your artwork and stuff too. But like, in terms of like you, where you put your word bubbles and everything. ’cause I know there’s, um, oh look, you know, there’s gonna be people out there that’ll go, ah, you know, leave. You know, like, but I, I’m a little bit of a, I like instinctual stuff, man. I think you, you know, like while you are working on this sort of a thing and you’re getting it right, ’cause you’re dealing with scientists and you want people to, you know, like not look at it and go, oh, that’s incorrect, like you were saying before. Yeah. And invisible war, you’ve also been talking about some of your other pieces that you just get this idea like, you know, like walking to Japan, you know what I mean?

(02:28:37)
And like, you just sort of letting your, you know, your intuition and you know, your vibe and your calm, it’s all happening and you’re just letting it flow, man, you know? Yeah. So you obviously work in, in multiple ways, but man, I, I like from looking at this, I like, well, I guess for no other, it’s a bit of an overused word these days, but it’s accurate for what it means to be used as it’s very organic lettering. You know what I mean? And I like that. It, um, while it’s, while it’s not, um, you know, the, the standard comic book Law of Hair, you know, like gotta be this way and go out on that page. It’s got a real lovely, um, flow to it. Like, it’s like the words are like floating through the artwork, but not, um, disassociating any of it. It’s all acting as one.

(02:29:30)
Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, um, um, I really appreciate that, man, because, um, I like, uh, I like think, I like people that think, um, creatively and, um, intuitively with their, with their stuff, man. And um, that’s what, that’s what, when I picked that up today and I looked at it, I was like, yeah, man. You know what I mean? Like, you’re just, you’re vibing with that man, regardless of, um, the scientific, uh, uh, you know, like pinpointed ness that you need. But your other work, you know, obviously is very, it’s just intuitive man. And from talking to you today, it’s um, you know, like, you’re obviously man, very enthusiastic man. Do you know what I mean? And creator, which is a beautiful thing. ’cause it’s like, I, I, that’s infectious, man. That’s why you’ve probably got so many people like reaching out to you in the comments and like knowing your work and you’ve had people following you and stuff like that.

(02:30:29)
You know, that’s probably why you had a whole crowd of people at the 2014 ledgers, you know, like calling you out, going like, oh, get back here, mate. You won the award. Thank you. Naughties art Best dream. Woo-hoo. Um, it’s all because of that man Ben Hutchings. So, um, um, and, uh, you know, like, so you, you know, it’s, it’s good man. You just seem like you’re real in touch with yourself, man, and know what you, what you want, what you, um, want to do, your intentions and stuff. You know, things catch you, you, you know, like, you get enthusiastic about it. You, you know, like, you don’t think about it too much, you know, you boom, like, you know, like you’re after it. And I like that your body of work is massive. I mean, like, you’re showing all the things that you’re doing.

(02:31:13)
Um, and I can appreciate that, Ben. And mate, I’ll tell you why I can appreciate that is because I do battle for Bustle and I dabble a little bit here and there in other stuff. Yeah. But I do big bloody story and like, you know, the same story and I have lots of ideas too. And, um, I can’t get to ’em because I’m trying to do this damn thing, you know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, multiple, you know, like issues of ’em. And I can really, from my perspective to you, I can so appreciate the fact that you have the opportunity to try so many things, man. Like, it must be fully, um, uh, invigorating to say the least, you know, like as, as a creator and as an artist.

Ben Hutchings (02:32:00):
Yeah, I guess so. Uh, yeah, doing it forever. Indulging every creative whim almost amazingly, somehow. I dunno how I haven’t starved to death, but, uh,

Leigh Chalker (02:32:14):
On the love of the art mate, on the love of the creativity. I know.

Ben Hutchings (02:32:17):
And, and it’s just like, I, that’s why I don’t, I don’t get enough time to just sit and read other people’s stuff. Like, uh, like I really want to, this is, this shelf is stuff that I think I’ve read most of <laugh> Shelf I’ve actually read. And then there’s files of, everyone’s the same though, aren’t they? Everyone’s got piles of books they haven’t read Absolutely. Shows, they haven’t watched games, they haven’t played too much cool stuff. Just too much cool stuff out there. Yeah, I know.

Leigh Chalker (02:32:43):
That’s what I was saying to you before, you know, like, I sort of look back on Little Lee and I’m really envious that, you know, like, you could just spend the day, man shitting the breeze, laying in a chair or a couch, you know what I mean? Like, and just, you know, reading comics and filling out nothing bothered you, the whole

Ben Hutchings (02:33:01):
Future. That’s why you don’t have that sense of it. And, and you’re being fed because you’re a kid. Your mom, your dad feeding clothing, you, that’s why you could just,

Leigh Chalker (02:33:10):
Ah, I gotta do nothing wrong. You know? This is way, man, you know, don’t going dude that. No, I’m not. You know, you hear a fry, hand drop and instead of rushing to see if someone’s all right, you just read the next page of your comic book, mate, you know, <laugh>, it’s just no hurt. See about it at all, man. Like, it’s a beautiful thing. Um, mm. Yeah. And what do you, what do you, um, when’s follow your gut out, mate, because you were saying that it’s, um, it’s due out soon, I’m gonna assume from the August I, I think it’s books. Sure.

Ben Hutchings (02:33:42):
The launch will be August the 19th, so Yeah, I think, I think it’s the 19th. Um, yeah, yeah. Through Scribe. Um, they’re the ones who are publishing it. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:33:53):
And how you feeling? You a little bit nervous about it coming up. Were you keen man, you are ready to rock and roll or have you, like, your typical seem to be, you’re already onto the next project, mate, you’re already onto something new, aren’t a

Ben Hutchings (02:34:05):
Little bit,

(02:34:07)
It’ll be a fun night when it comes out. And I, I reckon maybe I’m, I I feel that it will be a big deal. I, it’ll be popular. I don’t, I met Gregory, the, the creator, the, the instigator of the idea. And on the train the other day and talking to him, he was not, he was, oh, he was worried it wasn’t gonna be big. It wasn’t gonna be a thing. And ah, you know, the creator of the book, man. And, and I was like, no, what are you talking about? This is gonna be amazing. It’s not like anything, you know, it’s really unique, this book. I mean, ’cause of art. I mean, the idea like, like grappling all about a little germ going through a baby’s body. You’re joking. It’s gonna be huge. Like this is insane. It’s not like anything I take such pride in something that is so, uh, just not like anything else, right? Like I take real pride in that. Um, yeah. So he,

Leigh Chalker (02:35:06):
Great activity is having a uniqueness and an individuality, you know what I mean? Like Yeah. And that’s certainly what this is.

Ben Hutchings (02:35:13):
Yeah. He’s got, he got a good writer, AER all of us. We, we, we, we put so much, um, <laugh>, I was reading that guy’s comment, but, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. It, it, um, it’s gonna be, I think it’ll be a big deal. I think the book will do pretty good, you know, it won’t, won’t be he, yeah, I’m feeling positive about that book. Um, but I, I was, I was saying, um, yeah, I, I’m onto the next thing, which is the second mini Mel book. That’s what I’m worried. Remember I was talking to you about how took 13 years. Yeah, yeah. I don’t want the kids who’ve read this one to grow up into adults before the next one comes out. So, so I’m, I’m spending, I haven’t been thinking about Folio Gut really, because it’s finished a long time ago. For me, the launch will be great, but, um, I haven’t been thinking of, just been thinking of how I’m gonna get my, my second mini Mel out. And I was gonna tell you like, through those books that the f Your Guts and, and, and Invisible War. Those guys get published all over the world. There’s a Chinese version of f Your Gut. I’m not sure if I’m allowed to show you this yet, so don’t tell anyone, but,

Leigh Chalker (02:36:22):
So I’m not telling anyone

Ben Hutchings (02:36:24):
That’s the Chinese one. Isn’t that nice?

Leigh Chalker (02:36:26):
That’s cool. Yeah.

Ben Hutchings (02:36:28):
I mean, so that, that they, they’re really good. They’ve got this agent and, uh, and she’s also my agent now. So, um, she gets stuff into Asian countries and I’ve got, uh, this is the, it’s got a pile of books over here now, <laugh>, that’s, that’s the Chinese mini Mel. She got mini Mel I published over there. Right. The Point B. It’s really amazing’s just like, it’s even better than the original one. Like that. They, it was incredible. But, um, so ’cause of that, that publisher over there want me to do a second one? And, and I’ve been rushing to get something that normally takes me 13 years done in like, record time on top of everything. On top of making a living and living life and stuff.

Leigh Chalker (02:37:19):
Yeah. So one would, one would think that, you know, like from, um, even, um, ’cause I missed, I, I saw absence, comment then about That’s so cool. But I missed the other individual’s comment previously. ’cause I was looking at Follow your gut yet too much cool stuff. It’s awesome problem to have though. And you know what the amazing part is, is, um, um, that’s awesome. I’ve known children’s artists who have taken so long to bring out the next book that the kids have grown up and it’s a real shame. It is. There you go, Ben. Like, <crosstalk>. That’s how it feels.

Ben Hutchings (02:37:53):
Just this pressure. Yeah. It’s not paying, it’s not, it’s not a paid job either. It’s just like, I’m doing this outside of work. Right. So, so I’m kind of stressed life, but it’s a good sort of stress, you know, it could be worse, right? Like, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:38:07):
Well, I mean, man, you know, like you, you’re sort of, you like you were saying before, like, and I guess alluding to with what you were saying about stress, it’s like there’s just different factors of stress, isn’t there? That cat is sick. Reckons naughty as that. Yeah. You mean sick?

Ben Hutchings (02:38:24):
He means sick in the cool sense.

Leigh Chalker (02:38:26):
Yeah, man. Sick in the cool sense. Um, ’cause you know, you’re stressed now you’re working and stuff like that, but you’re sort of stressed back then because, you know, like you were trying, you know, am I, can I get there? Can I not? Like you never, you never really escape. Like, I guess an element of stress when you’re chasing, um, something, uh, a drive or when you have a drive or you have a compulsion to get something done. Because I think, um, you know, from our conversation is I’m picking up that you’ve definitely got a compulsion to like, get this creativity thing happening and keep it going, man. Do you know what I mean? Like, it really, I mean, if you didn’t, you wouldn’t have given the thought and time to those kids that have read, you know, mini Tom, you know, like, and started thinking like, you know, I don’t want those kids to grow up. You know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So essentially, even though you’re an adult vibing and your work, and then you’re doing your work, you’re still thinking like with that love of, of a child, man, that magic, you know, in your creation. And that’s a beautiful thing, dude. Um, absent art in all its forms is a labour of love. Indeed. Um, and Mel Briggs, it’s mini Mel two in Canberra suburbs or Melbourne suburbs. There we go.

Ben Hutchings (02:39:46):
I love Canberra like so much. And it’s the one city in Australia where it’s socially acceptable just to tell someone from there that it sucks. Like, you can go up to the I I’m born. I, I’m sorry, <laugh>. You are born in Canberra. Are you going there? Why <laugh>

Leigh Chalker (02:40:06):
Do that. You’re allowed

Ben Hutchings (02:40:07):
To, apparently. And I’m, I sit there and I take it <laugh>. Yeah, I like it. <laugh>. Okay. Yeah. Like that. Like, you can’t get mad. You’re, you’re supposed to take it. That’s, that’s Canberra. But, um, man, I lo like really love it. I, I was there for so long, I didn’t wanna leave. Like I didn’t really want to go to Melbourne. I wanted everyone to come to Canberra. Right. I wanted to stay there. I love, love small cities, love small towns. They’re the best. They’re, they’re amazing, but they just, yeah. They don’t have those opportunities. Right. So, um, well, me Canberra didn’t at the time. I’m not sure what it’s like now, but, but, um, uh, uh, what’s the point? What’s the point? Oh yeah. So when you grow up somewhere you love, right? Like, um, and you, and you’re happy and you have a nice time and everything has nice associations, then you notice the details of it and what makes it unique to you, you know? So Canberra kind of probably looks boring to other people, but, um, to me it’s, it’s not boring. It looks really, really nice and cosy. And I try to get that joy and stuff of, of that childhood feeling into, into those pages. Hmm. So yeah, set in Canberra always set in Canberra. It’s gotta always be set there, I reckon some different, well,

Leigh Chalker (02:41:20):
That, that would, that’s your childhood affection as well, man. I guess it’s an ode Canberra, isn’t it? You love for it too, you know, like, which is cool. Um, <inaudible>, I’ve been to Canberra a couple of times and I really liked it. Canberra is a great place. Yeah. Yeah. Canberra. Um, um, I’ve spent time in Canberra, as I said earlier, but, um, Canberra for me, um, other than my granddad, the one thing, um, for me was, uh, going to the, um, art museum when I was about 13 with my nan. Yeah. And not really vibing with a lot of the stuff, you know, ’cause I was so cultured at 13, do you know what I mean? And seeing a de Kooning in her, you know, like, as you know. But then man, turning the corner and seeing Jackson Pollocks Blue poles at 13 blew my mind.

Ben Hutchings (02:42:04):
Really? Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (02:42:05):
Yeah, yeah. I sat there for, oh man, long time. Like, my family went off around the whole gallery for, I don’t know, man. Like, I was just, this is cool for me, you know, like what I’m seeing, you know, like is just exactly, I’m loving it. Um, and, um, and discovering all the either Hile, um, uh, drawings in the War Memorial and, uh, his portraits of all the, um, prime ministers in the Parliament House. So, um, you know, other than family being in Canberra, Canberra for me has, um, uh, going me some pretty amazing art that has still resonated with me, um, years later, you know, and you go through those spurts of like studying and reading books on these people and they become favourite topics and things. So Canberra’s cool, man. I’m with you there. Um, uh, it is, man, like, just, it’s a bit chilly, you know, I gotta say I come from far north Queensland, man, you know, like, um, uh, yeah, it’s <inaudible> and, uh, I’m sitting at a pretty cool, like 18, you know what I mean? So, um, I’m not, I’m not like sitting like close to negatives or real low zeros, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I don’t go too well down there in, uh, this time of year. It’s, um, yeah.

Ben Hutchings (02:43:19):
Not for everyone. Crunchy grass in the morning,

Leigh Chalker (02:43:22):
Hanging your shirt up on the clothes line mate, and coming out the next morning there’s a piece of cardboard, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like you <laugh> you gotta like shake it off. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve done that. Yeah. Your dog and dog water goes frozen overnight on the top. That,

Ben Hutchings (02:43:37):
That disc of of water, you can lift it off. Yeah. Yeah. With the dead mosquitoes in it.

Leigh Chalker (02:43:43):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s cool. <laugh>. Um, Ben, I, um, man, as we start winding down our show this evening, um, I, man, I I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. Yeah, it’s

Ben Hutchings (02:43:59):
Great, great fun.

Leigh Chalker (02:44:00):
Yeah, I’ve really, I enjoy your enthusiasm, man. I enjoy, um, your work you’ve put in. I enjoy, um, the rich, uh, tapestry of, um, eclectic work you’ve got, man, but it’s very much Ben Hutchings from what I can see made with love, made with your own vibe, your own, uh, your own feel man, and very much you. So I, um, and your own voice. And, um, I always appreciate that about creators. Um, when you find your own way and, um, you’re just happy, you know, but you’re not without doubts. You’re not without certain elements as you’ve revealed tonight. You’ve had those moments before where you’ve doubted yourself, but you know, you’ve, um, kept plugging away and things and, and, and just little opportunities, man, you know, like started to prevail for you, man. And, um, you know, like through hard work, you know, you, you, you’re pushing on and you know, you’re still out there walking around.

(02:45:01)
Allison, thank you very much, mate, for watching. Um, thanks a really enjoyable show. Thank you for watching, Mel, thank you on your bud. Um, I’ll see you soon. And, um, and, uh, um, Jeffrey, thank you mate. Um, thank you. Thank you for watching. Um, and man, um, dude, I wish you every success, man. Um, excellent. Yeah, no, and um, yeah, I’m gonna, I’ll, I’ll talk to you when I, um, finish that, finish that follow your gut. Now, um, <laugh>, um, mate, one last thing. I always like to, um, ask the, um, individual, the guest that is on in the evening before we go into, uh, the wind down, you know, the, the very end of the show Yeah. Is, um, there’s two questions really, but we’ve got the why out of you, why you do it, because we know it’s a compulsion with you and you just gotta keep going.

(02:45:56)
You’ve always wanted to do it. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, what would you say? What would you say? And you’ve had, you know, and you probably covered this this evening, but if Little Ben right, the little Ben, um, that his Archies and stuff like that, um, and withdraw him. And, um, you’re a great talent. Ben says, Jeffrey, um, thank you <laugh>. And um, uh, and Big Ben was sitting in a comic book convention or, uh, you know, like, uh, Federation Square at Squish face and Little Ben came up to him and said, what’s your, what’s your piece of advice Big Ben? Like, how do I get to you? How do I become you? What would you say to that person?

Ben Hutchings (02:46:39):
Yeah, I think I did things pretty well. Uh, oh, what an excellent question. That’s a big one to Chuck right? The end. This is gonna go for three hours and 46 minutes. Just let me think about it. Just let me think what I would say to myself. I still stuff,

Leigh Chalker (02:47:02):
This is the fluidity of the chinwag, Ben,

Ben Hutchings (02:47:05):
I reckon this is really pragmatic advice. I think with any comic that you do that you think is good, don’t just do one, do three do, do a little set, do a little series, a little series. And don’t forget that. Yeah. It’s never just one comment. You can’t just do that. I, I kind of wish going back that all of those ones, I just, oh, I didn’t even show you any of them. I wish I could have, but it’s really good just to have a little tiny set of comics that’s a true finished thing that you can write off instead of having all of these unfinished things. Um, I, I’ll bet everyone can relate to unfinished things, right? I, I, I’ve, I’ve done a lot, but the result is I’ve not finished, I’ve not seen things through a bit more. And I dunno if I will ever get to, and I, that, that gets to me a little bit. I wish that I could have kept things off finishing. I would say that, and I would say that also that’s doing maybe two or three of something is enough to see if it will be popular, if it will take off, it will get momentum and be good. So I would say that, and, and, and another version of that advice is to just focus a bit better <laugh>. But that’s never my strong suit, so I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna get too worried about that.

Leigh Chalker (02:48:27):
Yeah, yeah.

Ben Hutchings (02:48:27):
I’ll bet, I’ll bet everyone can relate to all of those things. I’ll bet. Ev I’ve heard other artists say, um, you know, the same thing. The same thing, just, yeah. It’s too much to do, man.

Leigh Chalker (02:48:40):
Yeah, yeah, it is. It’s like when you’re in, you know, when you’ve got a big imagination, like you obviously do mate, you know, like it’s, um, it’s uh, you know, you’ve got a lot of work on your, on your plate. Um, yeah. And um, I’ve, uh, again, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this evening, Ben, and, um, look man, thank you for being part of your family. It was fun.

Ben Hutchings (02:49:01):
Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:49:01):
And yeah, well mate, um, when you, um, you know, we’ll get you back on sometime the track and we’ll can, and you can show us, uh, the stuff that you missed and, um, you know, like, uh, you know, give some words of wisdom to people out there that, um, that uh, are watching and things like that. And, um, Ben, um, just hang around after the credits mate. ’cause we always have a little, you know, couple of minute wind down and you know, like, um, you know, just a quick chat and catch up. Um, Nadia, you are Brill Ben. Love that. Head of yours. There you go. Uh, <laugh>, there you go. And, uh, thank you. Um, you know, like, um, I dunno why I’m saying thank you for liking Ben’s head, but you know, thank you <laugh> Nadia for liking my head, <laugh>. Uh, yeah.

(02:49:49)
So, um, thank you to Ben. I wish you every success do hang around at the end of the show and, uh, look, thank you everyone, uh, for watching Chinwag, um, uh, particularly the new people that have, uh, tuned in, uh, to see Ben. Uh, lovely comments. Uh, really appreciate it. I’m very grateful, uh, that you have popped on the show and, um, to say good day. And uh, and, um, look, it’s um, cool as there’s a cool dude too, Neil Blandon bring cash. That’s what Neil’s cat raise is. You need a T-shirt with that. Um, so <laugh>, so look, basically last thing I’ll say to you, a couple of things is like in subscribe, uh, COMEX, the channels on YouTube, anywhere you can find them, um, again, that just helps the algorithm and it gets this show and the other shows on the live stream side of Comex out into the world.

(02:50:40)
Um, the show is sponsored by, um, COMEX, uh, shop, which is the home of over a hundred Australian, uh, comic books. And, um, new improved website will be up and running soon. So keep an eye out for that. I’m sure you’ll be notified. Um, there are other shows on the live stream side of, uh, COMEX, so keep an eye out for them. Thursdays, Fridays, Wednesdays and uh, man, Tuesdays I nearly miss Tuesday. Uh, you know, that’s how it is. Say Tuesdays of the Chin Waggon. Um, and uh, always be kind to people. Look out for your brothers and your sisters because um, you know, it’s a tough world out there and some of us, uh, don’t deal as well as others, um, with all the pressures and stuff. And sometimes it’s just nice just to get a pat on the back or just get told, Hey man, how you going? You know, hug, love you. Ring up your family, ring up your people, take care of each other. Chinwag ears and always will be made with love and community as unity. And I’ll see you next Tuesday. So thank you. And see you later, Ben. Good on you buddy. See ya. Be cool.

Voice Over (02:51:43):
This show is sponsored by the Comex Shop. Check out Comex do CX for all things Comex and find out what Comex is all about. We hope you enjoyed the show.