Jesse Dracman

Voice Over (00:04):
This show is sponsored by the Comics Shop. We hope you enjoy the show.

Leigh Chalker (00:27):
Good day and welcome to another episode of Tuesday Chinwag. My name is Lee Chalker. I am the creator of the Australian Independent comic book called Battle for Bustle, published through Comic Studio. So, uh, chinwag is broadcast live over two channels. Now, on that little yellow ticker box running across the bottom, you will see their address. And that is Comex network and Aussie verse. So please go and check out those sites and, uh, just have a look at anything comic book related. There’s bound to be tonnes of stuff that you may wanna check out. Now, the best thing you can do by supporting them is to go and like, and subscribe ’em anywhere you can find them. I’m gonna say gday to sp. Yeah, gday mate. I’m gonna say gday to Nick May. I’m also going to say that all comments are welcome. I’ll do my best to bring them back into the conversation with tonight’s guest who is a gentleman I’m very much looking forward to talk to. And his name is Mr. Jesse Jackman. Hello, sir. How are you? This fine evening.

Jesse Dracman (01:29):
Good evening, Lee. I’m doing great, mate. And it’s an absolute treat to talk to you buddy.

Leigh Chalker (01:33):
Oh, thank you.

Jesse Dracman (01:34):
Good too,

Leigh Chalker (01:35):
Man. I’m going all right. Yeah, yeah. How are No, I’m going good. You know, like it’s, um, I’ve been really looking forward to talk to you today. It’s, uh, I’m feeling, I’m feeling, oh, I’m running. All right, man. You know, good. Someone doing alright, you know. Hello. Absent minded, you know, like, no hiccups, mate. They haven’t missed a beat today. So I’m ready to rock and roll and notice I threw in beat there ’cause you know, like, we’ll get into your music and stuff like that as well tonight. Yeah, yeah. So, um, I’m full of dad humour, mate, so, you know, I’m down

Jesse Dracman (02:07):
For it,

Leigh Chalker (02:08):
Mate. Yeah, yeah. When that’s rolling, you know, like, it’s like anything could happen. Um, so Jesse, mate, I’m going to just get right into the existential question. The thing that, you know, uh, always starts off the fluid nature of the Chinwag, who,

Jesse Dracman (02:30):
Well, my name’s Jesse, thanks to mom who, uh, who won that naming battle. ’cause dad wanted to gimme some American Indian name, um, bless his cotton socks. So, uh, yeah, went with that, but, uh, oh, wait a minute. We’re talking about my life. Yeah. <laugh>. Um, so yeah, I’m Jesse <laugh>. I’m a Pisces. I love comic books, uh, music, music across many spectrums. So a lot of people think I’m just into heavy metal, but I’m actually, uh, I love jazz. I love seventies funk. I love, um, all kinds of cool shit, man. If it, I mean, if it’s rocking, I’m down with it, man. So, yeah. Um, love my horror movies, love, you know, movies in general. But anyway, that, that, that side of me aside, um, I’ve led a very interesting, colourful life, uh, actually, you know, was one of them kids that grew up wanting to be an astronaut and came pretty close actually. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, um, yeah, yeah, NASA got involved and all that kind of stuff, so, story for another time maybe. But, um, oh, no,

Leigh Chalker (03:33):
No, we we’re going down that path tonight, mate. I’ve never had someone who was on NASA’s look before, so Yes, we will investigate that.

Jesse Dracman (03:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, um, did all that and, um, you know, down that path, I discovered this thing, this wretched thing called rock and roll. And, uh, it just took me down a dark path of, you know, singing in bands. And, um, you know, to this point. And, um, you know, obviously pandemic, uh, opened a doorway for me that, uh, gave me a chance to follow something that I had put aside for the longest time, which was writing and making comic books and, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, uh, you know, here we are today, you know, I’ve got, um, four comic book series under my belt and a children’s book and, um, you know, all self-published. And, uh, 90 per 99% of it funded through weekly recycling. And, um, I’m, I’m just having a really good time, man, and part of this journey is meeting people like yourself and, uh, just realising just how much amazing talent we have in this country. So it’s, um, you know, just like music man, it’s great to be in good company. So, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (04:44):
Yeah. That’s cool, man. That’s, that’s me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s, that’s, uh, nicely put. I, I have noticed in, um, because you and I met, um, on a live stream a couple of years ago, and, uh, um, I, we had like, I guess a, a half hour, 45 minute chat that day with, um, Shane and Dustin. And, um, and I was taken aback by you at the time with how, uh, motivated, uh, determined you were particularly, you just touched on it then, which I want to get into as well tonight. Um, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is the, um, your like, environmental, uh, aptitude towards recycling, things like that to further on, um, uh, your endeavours with comic books and, and, and artists and all of those sorts of things. And, um, I, I’ve kept a, like, obviously I’m not a huge social media person. I have my moments, you know, like where you’re on there and you’re, you know, doing your thing.

(05:50)
Yeah. I, I’ve, I’ve followed you, uh, enough to see you pop up and you’re out and about and all that. You, um, man, you’re like, you, you’re busy. Like I’ll give you that. There’s no stopping you <laugh>. You never, you never seem down. You’re always like, come on man, we can do this. Your attitude is excellent. Um, and I liked it. And, and when, um, and just with Chinwag having the opportunity like myself to meet people that, you know, I’ve seen and touched base with previously, and to have a long form interview, uh, man, like, it’s, it’s a huge, like really is a honour man to get you on here too, because Oh,

Jesse Dracman (06:32):
Thanks man. Appreciate it.

Leigh Chalker (06:34):
No, man. Like, I honestly mean it. ’cause it’s, um, I love all my chin wags, but there’s just something about tonight that I was buzzing today, and like I told you, like, that’s

Jesse Dracman (06:43):
Cool, man.

Leigh Chalker (06:44):
Yeah, I was, I was, I was telling Jesse and Shane for everyone out there before the start of the show that Jesse’s part of a band that some of you, you know, like has been, is we’ll get to that. Jesse can tell his story. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But I spent the day listening to the band and, um, much like I like about comics, where you can hear people with a voice in their creative sense and stuff like that. Very much I saw and heard Jesse and what he does with comic books coming through in the music. And, um, and that, uh, today made me like here, you know, like, this dude’s got his, his rhythm. He is got his vibe happening, you know, so, um, I’m looking forward to, you know, like, um, getting into this man. Yeah. But before we, but before we get into like little Jesse, I wanna, I wanna, and, um, and whatever your, you know, hopefully you can have an exclusive here and let us know what, um, possibly your American Indian name was gonna be like five, six Arrows and Miss or something like that, you know,

Jesse Dracman (07:53):
I don’t remember it, but it was something like that. Yeah. <laugh>,

Leigh Chalker (07:56):
You know, like dances with Bears. I mean, who knows? Um, it could be anything. Um, but, uh, mate, take me right back to, um, nasa. Come on. You can’t just throw something like that out there and just not expect to go back to nasa, man, <laugh>.

Jesse Dracman (08:14):
Well, I gotta blame mom for that. Um, you know, she, you know, like any good parent, man, they, they notice your parent always notices your interest before you do. And, uh, I always found myself drawn to, you know, all things space. You know, like I was, I was that kid watching, you know, star Trek and Star Wars and, you know, all, you know, all the stuff that, that any good, um, well-rounded kid should be exposed to at an early age. And it just got me, you know, into, um, you know, space travel and, and all that. And anyway, long story short, um, there was a opportunity to, um, go experience the, the joy that is the, uh, US Space Academy. I’ve always known as Space Camp in Huntsville, Alabama. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, uh, yeah, I applied. And um, next thing you know, I’m, yeah, here I am, you know, going over to the States for two weeks, you know, with mom and, uh, experiencing, you know, what it’s like to be an astronaut.

(09:20)
And, uh, yeah, if I didn’t drink the Kool-Aid before I really drank at that time. And so I just really got into it. And, uh, so much so that, uh, um, they pretty much kind of invited me back for, you know, a follow up. And I even did the, what’s called the Top Gun, a Aviation Challenge course, uh, where you spend, uh, two weeks, you know, learning the ins and outs of being a fighter pilot. So I was, you know, yeah, flying F 14 tomcats, uh, not the real ones, just simulators, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah. But, uh, yeah, you know, got to experience, you know, all the simulators that astronauts and fighter pilots experience, like the, you know, one of my favourite ones, the five DF, the five Degrees of Freedom. Um, and yeah, it’s this harness that you basically strap to that, um, basically simulates zero gravity.

(10:18)
And, uh, you know, it’s for, uh, a role that the astronauts have called Mission Specialists. They do all the repairs on satellites and that out in space. So, um, yeah, so I got to experience that. And I remember vividly of all the things I could remember, I, I remember my trainer saying to me, whatever you do, don’t adjust yourself too much, or you will basically, um, give away any chance of having kids one day. So <laugh>, you know, ’cause I look down and there’s these two straps just wedged in real nice and tight. <laugh> probably, yeah. Probably not, ideally where they should have been. So, um, yeah, it’s a bit daunting for a kid, you know? So there, there’s having a bit of fun there, flying around upside down and, uh, experiencing all that and yeah, you know, it, uh, it, it got, it got, look, it things got, um, got pretty interesting there.

(11:16)
Like, uh, there was a lot of interest. Um, and, you know, I ticked all the boxes to, to go to take those steps to go to nasa. But, um, the thing that I just couldn’t, I dunno, I just had, you know, I also had a very powerful imagination as well. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I found myself, you know, by that point in school, I, I discovered, you know, I really loved writing stories and I loved horror. Um, Mm-Hmm. My, my English teacher, who I actually still stay in touch with today, um, she really encouraged my writing. She said, you know, I’ve definitely got a, a knack for it. And yeah, I was even writing my own scripts in theatre and stuff, and, and then I discovered, you know, rock and roll. Um, I mean, I discovered it before, but I really discovered it in school, and it was kind of my escapism from the pressures of what I was going through to try and get these, you know, really high grades Mm.

(12:16)
To, uh, to appease the powers to be overseas, you know? And, um, yeah. It’s, it’s just one of those, you know, I, I wouldn’t call it a sad story, but I, I, I call it, it just, it, it was, um, it was an amazing experience. And, um, it definitely lit my creative fuses, like, like nothing else. I mean, some of the things I got to experience and see and do over there, uh, I went over there three times and I got to, you know, you know, practise survival training in the woods, you know, flying, flying foxes, you know, flying, you know, learning about, um, aerial combat manoeuvres from, you know, Vietnam and all that, and the Korean War. And, um, but also seeing, you know, these planes that I just stared at lovingly in pages of books up close and personal, you know, like being standing metres away from an SR 71 Blackbird, you know, the, the fastest plane on the planet, you know?

(13:16)
Yeah. Getting to see that, getting to see the space shuttle, getting to see, um, I actually saw, um, parts of the Space Station being built, um, in a sort of semi top secret location. Um, so I got to see that, you know, um, on the sly. And that was really cool. And, and also got to meet some amazing people. Like I got to meet, um, Paul Scully Power, the first Australian astronaut, um, and also got to meet, um, the one and only Buzz Aldrin the second man to walk on the moon. Mm. And, uh, that was, that was,

Leigh Chalker (13:50):
How was Buzz? How was that?

Jesse Dracman (13:52):
That was a buzz man. <laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, dude, he was, he was super cool. Like, he, he pulled out, like he carried, he carried like this little notepad with him of all these sketches and stuff, and he just started, he sat me down and just showed me all his ideas for man travel to Mars. And he explained his old vision to me. And, uh, you know, it was a lot to take in for a kid, but man, I was in, I was like, yep, you know what you’re doing, man, I see this happening. And I said, mate, I’ll, I’ll be one of your astronauts to go to Mars, man. You know, like bold words at the time. But, you know, it was, um, so

Leigh Chalker (14:32):
Was was Buzz like, sorry to interrupt you, dude, but No, you’re, he pulled out the notepad and he was drawing, like, was he like, fully sitting down, you know, like just flowing with you little fella, you know, like, these are my ideas, like colonising the moon and Mars, and this is how we could do it. And this is what I reckon.

Jesse Dracman (14:49):
Yeah, that’s exactly what he did, showed. How cool is that? Showed he drew diagrams and shit. It was, it was surreal, dude. Like, y you know, I didn’t expect him to be so open. Actually, I had no expectations, so I just thought, holy shit, you know, I’m, I’m meeting a man that’s changed the course of history, you know? Yeah. And, um, yeah, it was, it was cool. And, and he just, just, uh, the way he just took the time to, to talk to me and to share, uh, his stories with me and stuff, you know, um, I mean, when it came to talking about the moon, it was, I think it was just all the textbook answers. Um, you know, I felt like, you know, there’s elements, elements they set they hold back from talking about, um, that’s been well documented. Um, but, uh, you know, he was, he was cool, man. He was very cool and left a quite a profound effect on me. So Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (15:47):
I imagine he would have like, yeah.

Jesse Dracman (15:49):
So all that, all that side of thing got me, got me excited. But, um, physics and math, um, oh man, I, yeah, I, I was ha I’m, I never lose a night’s sleep over not seeing one of those books ever again. <laugh>.

Leigh Chalker (16:06):
Yeah. I, I imagine that would’ve been very difficult, man, because, um, yeah, like, it’s, man, it must, it must go to show you though you must have, um, had something that they, uh, that they liked mate, like, uh, to get to that extent. Like, what was it that you said that the writing in your English teacher, it stuck with you and, uh, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, it’d be pretty hard at this point. I, I would be thinking, you know, like, um, English teacher telling you, Jesse, you know, like, you, you’re great at writing. And then on the other hand, you know, like, you’ve got Buzz Aldrin sitting there, you know, like drawing diagrams of colonisation in outer space and stuff like that. Yeah. It was, what was, what was the dividing range there, man, that brought you back to earth as as, as opposed to shooting for the stars?

Jesse Dracman (16:53):
Well, I, I just shocked for the stars from a different perspective, you know, like, um, you know, I, I just, you know, it’s that thing about being at school, you know, peer pressure and stuff. Yeah. And, um, the pressure of being a kid. And, you know, when you, when you don’t perform and when word travels that you are this, you know, has, they called me in school, the spaceman, you know, apparently the spaceman can do anything. So when the Spaceman can’t win the a hundred metre dash, um, there’s something wrong with you. Or if the spaceman can’t get an A in the Mafa report, there’s something wrong with you, you know? So, Mm-Hmm. It just really sort of started creating a bit of, a bit of taste in my mouth of, you know, I just, I, the, the, the thrill was gone of sorts. Yeah.

(17:42)
Um, I, I never lost my interest in space travel by any means, so I just, I just really just detested the pressure that came with it. You know, I, I mean, I probably could have changed my attitude and, and applied myself a bit more and done all that stuff. Sure. But when my English teacher started talking to me about the world of Stephen King and Clive Barker and, um, you know, and, and she discovered that I had a real, you know, my eyes lit up about this stuff. So she really pushed me and, and, um, gave me a lot of encouragement on following those creative ideas. You know, um, some that raised red alerts, apparently with the guidance counsellor. ’cause I just had a pension <laugh>. Yeah. Had a bit of a pension for writing Gore and, um, very graphic detail. So, you know, um, it’s, it’s the sort of thing that, um, just got me, got me excited about a whole new world of possibilities. So, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Creative writing was my new forte.

Leigh Chalker (18:47):
Yeah. No, that’s good. That’s fair enough. That’s a good answer. Um, getting back to Stephen King, what, what’s your favourite Stephen King stuff, man, because, uh, I’ve been writing through quite a few of those books over the years myself.

Jesse Dracman (18:59):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I haven’t read every single one of his books, um, ’cause he got so many of ’em. But I really, I always go back to Salems a lot. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It’s one of my favourite, favourite books. Um, it obviously, but yeah, I think if you ask me, um, Salems lot is definitely my hands down favourite. ’cause I found, like I had a, a bit of a personal connection of sorts. ’cause, um, one of the first times I read it, I was living in a place called Low Wood, um, which is out near Ambay Air Force Base. Okay. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. But anyway, it’s sort, it sort of a country town. Yeah. Small population. Everyone knows everyone at the time. And when I was reading the book, I was reading about the, the house, um, where the vampire lived and that I just had this weird vision in my head. And lo and behold, looking out in the hills of low wood is this one lone hill and this one lone house just sitting on it. And I just, for the longest time, just always looked at that house and thought, I think a vampire lives there, <laugh>. I just, my imagination took me places, man. So,

Leigh Chalker (20:09):
Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, that’s, that’s cool. Let’s, um, yeah, it’s funny how things resonate with you. Hey, just little things when you’re younger. Like I, um, like my first encounter with Stephen King was, um, my uncle Steven was, um, my godda, um, was a voracious reader, man. Like, the man would just like see you later, you know, like, like in a day or two, you know, like just unbelievable. And, um, and he loved High Fantasy. He loved, you know, anything that what, you know, like let’s say he, hello Dave die, you champion. Um, like he didn’t, he liked real life stories and he liked the far other spectrum. He wasn’t into spy stories and things like that, you know? Um, and, uh, man, like this is the dude who was like, you know, given like nine and 10-year-old me, like the Lord of the Rings read that and, you know, varying other things.

(21:07)
That’s cool. One of the, and one of the books that he gave me was The Gun Slinger. And, um, oh wow. Yeah, I, poor man, probably 11 or 12 at the time. And I had no idea what the gun slinger was about. My family was a bit like, oh, that’s Stephen King mate. You know what I mean? Like, ’cause I’m, you know, like in my mid forties I was around when Carrie came out and like, you know, the first it Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and you know, like all those things were like pretty like woo. You know, like, um, and, uh, the gun Slinger old Roland man, like, just boom, blew my mind. So then over the course of the next, I suppose, six or seven years as I picked up varying volumes, you know, like I really got into the Guns Slinger, uh, and the Dark Tower series. So that, um, that’s my, like, I’d, I’d always for me, like it’s, yeah, that, you know, ’cause um,

Jesse Dracman (21:58):
Yeah, that’s one I’ve gotta retap into man. ’cause I kind of grazed the surface, but I didn’t fully dive into it as much as I’d like to. So I think it’s just all about just being in the right place at the right time. In the right head space. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (22:10):
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent man. It’s just some things, you know, like you can miss a classic just ’cause you aren’t in the right head space or you can miss, or you can Yeah, absolutely. Find something that no one else likes because you just get lucky. I mean, everything happens for a reason. It’s time. When it’s time, man. You know, like it’s, um, you can’t push or forth, you just go with that flow and things will come or things will stay away. It’s just how it is, man. You know? Um, well, yeah, I was just very lucky. Like you, you know, like suggesting those sorts of things. So, um,

Jesse Dracman (22:37):
Yeah, I’m grateful that luck. Yeah. Same. Well, I mean, that’s, that, that’s for me, like one piece of advice that I always give openly to anyone is just, you know, don’t feel bad or whatever if, if you don’t jump on the boat straight away. ’cause I certainly don’t, you know, I’m a late bloomer to a lot of things, you know? Yeah. Like, the world blows up about one thing and I just go in the opposite direction, you know? Like, I just go, look, I’ll, I’ll get to it when I’m ready, you know? Yeah. Um, and I’ll enjoy it the way it’s meant to be enjoyed in my own head space and all the rest. And I always pass that on to everybody I come across and go, man, don’t feel pressured to jump on something just because Joe Blow and Jimmy Blow and all those other guys all do the same thing, man, just be your own person and find your own path and you’ll be happier that way.

Leigh Chalker (23:25):
Yeah. I think that’s pretty wise advice, mate, because, um, I, I know for like, for myself for so long, um, and these are, these are like, these are self-realization facts for me over recent time, you know, like, ’cause I’ve had a lot of changes, uh, over the last few years as well. And, um, and one of the many traps that I found myself in, and it is, it’s hard to break the, you know, like the chain is being something that other people want you to be, not being yourself and going with what resonates with you because you don’t want to disappoint someone or leave someone behind, or you don’t want to, you don’t want to be left behind because for whatever reason, you just haven’t got that courage within yourself to I’m going this way, I’m gonna carve that path, you know? Yeah. And, um, but things, again, things happen like for yourself, man. Like different people have those realisations at different ages and, um, yeah. You know, you gotta go through your shit really, you know, like to, um, you do get there up experience and, you know, you do. So, yeah.

Jesse Dracman (24:47):
And I think that’s, I think that’s what happened with the astronaut thing too, man, was just that there was just a lot of pressure, you know, a lot of, um, you know, teachers and students all had these high expectations of what I, of this person that I should have been when, you know, I was the kind of kid in school that I liked to goof around and, you know, play practical jokes and make fart bombs and, you know, and play battleships in class and just, just be a kid, you know? And, um, the more I got told that I wasn’t allowed to be there, that person, the more I kind of went, well cool, well maybe someone else can do that, and I’ll just, I’ll go be a kid and figure out my ship my own way.

Leigh Chalker (25:28):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Man, I, I think, um, you got, you got that, uh, rebellious streak, uh, in your life. I do, man, because I, I couldn’t understand it. Like, you know, 13 years old, man, you know, you totally popped over into the teens and you got some person standing in front of 600 of you at this Catholic school, you know, like going and you must know what you want to do with the rest of your life. It’s like <laugh>, man, I dunno. I just wanna read comic books and, you know.

Jesse Dracman (26:00):
Exactly. Dude, <laugh>. Exactly. You know, you just wanna play video games, read comic books Yeah, man, and be a kid, man. You know, like, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (26:08):
Yeah. And you got, and you got kid sitting there going, oh, yes, I, I want to, you know, be a brain surgeon. Like, what the hell are you talking about, man? Right?

Jesse Dracman (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (26:17):
Closest thing you’ve ever seen to a brain surgeon is the re animator, get outta here, you know? Exactly, dude. Yeah, yeah. Oh man, that’s so true, man. Like, hey, it’s like, that’s not for everyone. It’s for, it’s for some, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Much like yourself though, you were saying, man, you had, you were lucky to have, um, a teacher that sparked you, you know? And, um, yeah. And your influences. So you were obviously, uh, I wouldn’t say would I, would I be using too strong a, um, word if I suggested you were a little, little bit bullied perhaps, you know, like coming from space school and not, not being able to quite meet their expectations and stuff.

Jesse Dracman (27:01):
Yeah, yeah. I would, because know, you, you, you’re pretty right. ’cause I mean, you know, every time, you know, everything was fine every time I was going to the States. Mm-Hmm. You know, like all three times when I went to America to do the academy, um, I was centre of attention, um, which was good and bad. Um, you know, but every time I came back, the level E expectation grew, you know? So, um, you know, it was fun for five minutes. And then after that it was like, um, so where’s your physics homework? And where’s this and where’s that? You know? And you’re dealing with the pressures of just being a kid on top of all that. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (27:42):
It’s, yeah.

Jesse Dracman (27:43):
You know, it’s, um, yeah, it’s a lot to take on board, you know, and I think that’s, that’s one of them things that, um, they can’t teach you, um, in life. You know? You just kind of have to figure it out yourself and find your own path and your own way of thinking of what you wanna be and what you want to do. So, yeah, that’s why I’m, I’m forever grateful for the experiences I’ve had, and I never regret it for one minute. Um, but I’m more especially grateful for the fact that someone took a punt on me and identified, um, the potential in my creative thinking and, and expanded on that with me and, and helped create a path for me that I would just follow for, you know, for a lifetime. So, yeah,

Leigh Chalker (28:31):
It’s pretty, it’s pretty amazing when you do have that mentor or friend or parent Yeah. That, um, does encourage you to pursue something that really does light that fireman, you know, it’s not pretence. It’s like, this is me and I love it, and I want to do it. It’s all me. Um, and that English teacher, you, like, you’re really lucky too, man, that, um, yeah. Um, that you’re still in contact with him because I, I was, I was very lucky. I had two teachers in school, so I, I’m sort of running parallel with you a bit here, man. <laugh> like, cool. My dad, my dad was very much, I have to play sport. I wasn’t really into sport, but I’m physical. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I, I don’t mind it, I don’t mind taking tackles and, you know, tackling and, you know, that sort of thing.

(29:25)
And, but my, my granddad on my mother’s side was an artist, you know, like from the second World War. So I was always this middle, and I had an English teacher and an art teacher, and I really wasn’t interested in any other form of schoolwork other than history. And, um, and my English teacher was a dude called Richard Wewe, still one of the coolest men ever. I do see him around. And, um, uh, he buys my comics, actually. ’cause you remember that’s awesome little kid saying that I wanted to, you know, like make comics and, um, man, he used to get up in class and he’d be reading like the Lord of the Flies, right. But he’d be like, the whole Right. You know, like giving it like this full Shakespearean thing. And you’d sit there and you’d be like, wow, you know, I’ve never heard anyone read a book like that, you know?

(30:16)
And then you’d get your art teacher who was just like, very much like, um, you know, what do you feel like doing today? I’d like to do this. Well, you are going to do it. So there you go. And everyone would be doing something different. And like, it was just all like, math, creativity, and really cool too, you know? And they all, and all of the dudes that are in those classes and stuff have gone on to be like, um, you know, musicians like yourself and, um, artists and varying other people in those, you know, areas, just through those people’s influences and stuff. So, I mean, that’s, that’s a really cool thing, man. Um, yeah. So I reckon that’s awesome that you found that person. ’cause um, when, when you discovered rock and roll, ’cause man, we, you know, we’ve all had those, there’s that one time, man, you know, like when you Oh, yeah.

Jesse Dracman (31:06):
Oh

Leigh Chalker (31:06):
Yeah. You know, what, what was it, mate? You, you surely you’d know like Yeah. One, like, boom, I’m playing that album 1000 times. You know, like <laugh>. Yeah.

Jesse Dracman (31:17):
Well, it’s kind of, it’s kind of interesting, you know, because when I discovered it was, I, I’d been around it, you know, growing up as a kid. Like, I came from one of those, uh, Dyna family dynamics. My dad was a, you know, he was that old school biker, you know, so deep purple, ac, CDC, you know, that was, that was a staple mom, you know? So between him and mom, it was a, a staple diet of Judas Priest and frigging Black Sabbath and all that. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, it was pretty rock solid from that aspect. Yeah. But, but I kind of didn’t sort of, um, connect with all that straight away. But in school, um, the part that triggered that next path in, in my life was, um, Elvis Presley of all people.

Leigh Chalker (32:06):
Oh man. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jesse Dracman (32:09):
As, as soon

Leigh Chalker (32:10):
As I, what period mean, like, I, I’m, I’m a cl I’m a little, yeah. I’m a fan as well, mate. I’ve had my

Jesse Dracman (32:15):
Moments original, original Elvis, the Mm-Hmm. The early Sunset Blues recordings. Mm-Hmm. Um, I can’t remember songs specifically off the top of my head, but dude, he would do some ripping blues covers. And just listening to his voice, there was something about his voice that was hypnotic to me. And it just, it just sang to me literally. And next thing you know, I find myself singing along to it. And before you know it, I’m at school the next day singing Elvis, you know, just not to anyone. I’m just singing it in walking. And, um, you know, and, and that’s, that’s where it took me down another path, you know, like, um, couple of, couple of friends discovered, you know, here’s this guy singing Elvis. Oh, maybe he can sing in our band, you know, next thing you know, I’m, I’m jamming in my first band. It was bloody hilarious. So, yeah. There you go, man. Rock and roll.

Leigh Chalker (33:15):
Yeah. I, I like the fact you said Elvis there. ’cause, um, I can see how you would’ve grown up with a staple of, um, you know, describing that. I, um, yeah. I grew up with Did you have a, a family that, like, there was constant music in the house, like, um,

Jesse Dracman (33:32):
Yeah, to a degree. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, mum, mum played rec, you know, played music, uh, every weekend. So it was, it was a pretty, you know, like we, we had music and we had movies, you know? Yeah. So mum really encouraged me, you know, with movies and just watching, you know, everything, man. Fucking, yeah. Sorry. Um, yeah,

Leigh Chalker (33:56):
You right, mate. You fire away

Jesse Dracman (33:58):
<laugh>, um, you know, star Wars and, you know, all the, all the classics and, but it was the movies like Superman and the Rocky Series that just hit me, you know? Yeah. And the, but it was, but it was the soundtracks, you know, the soundtracks of what I connected with. Yeah. Bill Con’s score on the, the Rocky soundtracks really, uh, just resonated with me. And it just, it, it helped me sort of create, uh, creative, um, vortex in my mind so I could listen, listen to the soundtrack, and I could transport my imagination to anywhere I wanted, you know? And I think that sort of built, uh, a path to, you know, part of that path that led me to today, you know?

Leigh Chalker (34:44):
So, I mean, I, I would, I would say that that’s a beautiful summary. Like those, um, those movies and what you grew up with there too, because, again, similar to me, every weekend my mom and dad had, um, like the, the fourth monkey, hello Stu, led Zeppelin, Judas Priest, and comic books. That sounds like three pretty good things there, man. You can’t go wrong, Stu Rock on. Hell yeah. Um, my mom and dad had, uh, an old school, um, film reel player. Oh, sick. And, um, my mom and dad in 1972, at the age of 18 and 19, uh, dad got sent to, uh, join the Army, and, um, they moved to Singapore for three years. And over in Singapore, dad bought this, um, giant reel player, and he recorded thousands of songs from like the, um, the Army radio. And, uh, I grew up with stacks of these reels, man and dad.

(35:55)
That’s so cool. Dad had typed them out with, at exactly the point. Songs were, and it was like the old, you had to put ’em on, wind them up, tie ’em off, and then <laugh>. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that’s the song I wanna listen to. And it was just, so every Saturday and Sunday was this, and man, like yourself, it was everything from Elvis through to Sabbath, through to Bowie, through to credence, through to Oh man. Um, uh, uh, like, you know, oh, what’s his bloody name? The, the dude who does the Bismark, you know what I mean? My dad was country to rock and roll. Mom was psychedelic to <laugh>. Like, I was just inundated with stuff, man. It’s, oh, yeah, man, it’s healthy. Yeah. Like, and then Saturday nights were movie nights, man, and it’s like, the best, oh, dude. And it was just like, and my brain was just ticking, man, you know? Yeah. Totally. Much like war would’ve been just like, constantly going. It’s, um, so I get that. I still find myself just daydreaming about things, and I don’t know, man, people are like, oh, what are you thinking about <laugh>?

Jesse Dracman (37:03):
Yeah. Yeah. That, yeah. That’s, that’s, yeah, that’s the space man to me too, man. Like, I’m, I’m forever <laugh>. My mind is forever in space, man. I may not be travelling to space, but my mind is always in space, dude.

Leigh Chalker (37:15):
Oh, man. Yeah. I think I infuriate some people, man, because I can just veer off into the strangest things and like, oh yeah. People are like, okay, cool. And, you know, like, and, and they just leave me to it, you know? Um, yeah. Yeah. Lucky. Um, that’s just how it is. But yeah, no, man, all those influences from being a kid and stuff like that, like, were just, you know, I still, you do have to be grateful for all of those. Um, yeah,

Jesse Dracman (37:44):
You do, man. You do. Like, I mean, that’s the thing. Like, I’m, uh, you know, without going too deep into it, like my, you know, my life was, you know, had definitely had, its, its, um, you know, downsides as well, you know, like, uh, mom was a single mom raising, you know, raising us kids, you know? And, um, we did it tough, you know, we did it real tough, uh, for the longest time. But, but the thing, the thing that I have to give credit to mum for was, no matter how rough we were doing it, she always made sure that there, there was food on the table. And we had Saturday movie nights, you know, like, she just wanted, she wanted more than anything for us kids to have that, that, um, childhood that, um, we deserved. And I’m forever grateful for that. So, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (38:35):
That’s love, brother. That’s love, man. Yeah, it’s love. It’s the highest form, mate. You know, like, um, yeah, a mother’s love for their children, mate. No harder job. And being a mom, I had, um, I had a single mother as well for the longest period of time. My dad, as much as I speak about him, um, lots of people would think that he was in my life for a very extended period, but no, he was only in my life for five years, you know, like, uh, six years. And, um, mum did it hard too, man, like very hard. Like, I was raised by mum was working, I was raised by my grandmother who was a very strict Catholic, <laugh>. <laugh>.

(39:17)
Yeah. Uh, um, and, uh, my aunts, um, like my aunt Janelle and, uh, and Donna, um, like, and just a lot of, uh, I grew up with a lot of, um, uh, I would say female empowerment. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, which I also think, you know, if you want to go into a spiritual, you know, like side of things, I think that played a massive role in, um, also fueling like a lot of creativity and, uh, seeing absolutely, like the respect, you know, like these, you know, um, yeah. I just, yeah, that’s, um, a lot of qualities there, man, that are good. It is, you know, childhood, um, as long as you come, I think, you know, there’s, there’s hard stuff all the time, Jesse, but, you know, like, oh

Jesse Dracman (40:08):
Yeah, absolutely.

Leigh Chalker (40:09):
I, I like the fact though that, like, like we touched on before, man, do you know, like, you just, you’ve kept moving, man. Like, you, you keep creating and stuff like, um, and you know, you’re talking positively now and things, you know what I mean? ’cause you gotta take, oh, fuck, man. I suppose it’s like, it’s the duality of things, isn’t it? You know, for what’s up? There’s s and you know, like, you try and find that balance and medium and things. Yeah. You know, and you learn respect for people. ’cause like, what I’ve learned from, like, my growing up with my mom is, uh, when I was younger, I didn’t understand it. But now that I’m older and I look back on, you know, like what she went through, it’s like, man, damn. You know what I mean? Like, worked her bum off mate. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Not to, um, to, to, you know, to allow me opportunities as well, you know? Yeah. Now, how many, how many in your family? You mentioned you had a couple of kids, so what do you got? Brothers, sisters?

Jesse Dracman (41:02):
Yeah. Yeah. Got brothers and sisters. I mean, I, I’ve actually got quite a few brothers and sisters, so, mm. Um, you know, ’cause my mom, uh, you know, she remarried. And, um, so from the stepdad, I got two brothers and a sister. But from my dad, I’ve got, um, I last count, I think five, four brothers and two sisters, something like that. Yeah. So, yeah, big family. Big family. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So it’s, um, yeah, it’s interesting, man, you know?

Leigh Chalker (41:35):
Yeah. That’s, that’s a, it’s, yeah. Yeah. It would be, man. Like, that’s a big dynamic too, that at all. Would that fuel into your, um, yeah. Your right. Absolutely. Now that you’re a bit older and stuff like that, you know, your imagination fires on that.

Jesse Dracman (41:47):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it, um, it all, it all plays a part. And, um, you know, I’ve, I’ve got a, you know, pretty good relationship with everyone, so, yeah. No complaints, man. You know, other than time to see everyone, but that’s about it. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (42:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re a busy dude. Um, that’s what, um, Jesse was saying to me, everyone that’s out there listening, um, just earlier that, um, Jesse can’t even remember the last time he had a day off <laugh>. And, uh, he’s, and he’s, and he’s chilling out here with, uh, with me and everyone watching and listening tonight, mate. So I’m telling his story. So very, very grateful for that, man.

Jesse Dracman (42:26):
It’s all

Leigh Chalker (42:27):
Good. Yeah. And it’s, uh, super cool, man. Um, yeah. Yeah. That blew me out when you said that before, I was like, whoa. You know, like, okay. You know, I, I <laugh>. Oh, look,

Jesse Dracman (42:39):
It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s the world we live in, mate, so, you know, you Yeah. Everyone, everyone’s busy. You know, I never, you know, I, I always, you know, I, anytime I talk to any of my friends, I know everyone’s doing it. Everyone’s doing it tough. Everyone’s busy, you know? Um, time is precious and all the rest of it. So, you know, I, yeah. It’s, it’s a thing these days, man. But, um, these little moments where we get to have chats with like-minded souls like we are right now, man, it’s, yeah. Can’t put a price tag on it, man. So it’s cool.

Leigh Chalker (43:12):
Very cool. Yeah. Beautiful, man. Um, I, I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring a few things together now, and I’m gonna let you like, broaden this small structure I’m giving you now. Sure. It will involve what brought you, what was a comic book that sparked your interest in comic books, obviously, so we can get to that. But I do know that, uh, one of the, one of the, uh, comic books that you do, um, would obviously be from a love of a film that, uh, I also share with you, because that was one of the films that I saw as a young man, and that was, uh, the Warriors and, uh, yeah, man, the classic lines. Can you dig it? And, uh, you know, warriors come out to play with the beer bottles going and, um, at this, at this time that you were reading your books and everything you’ve discovered Elvis, and we all, I’m assuming like, once you get to Elvis, and you said you were like firing off on jazz, so I’m assuming with your jazz, I, I’m just gonna have a punt here and suggest you probably got into a little bit of Miles Davis and John Coltrane and that sort of stuff at the time, and Yeah.

(44:38)
Like, oh dude, man, I love drawing into that stuff. Hey, I crank

Jesse Dracman (44:42):
That.

Leigh Chalker (44:42):
Yeah. I, man, it’s like, you

Jesse Dracman (44:43):
Know, as cl as cliched as it sounds, they’re, they’re definitive for a reason. And, um, yeah. But anytime someone says, Hey, listen to this, I’ll listen to it and, ’cause I’m always up for broadening of my horizon, so, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, but John Coltrane, dude, that, those, those songs, man, they take me places, but, um, even, even big band swing drummers like Gene Cooper. Yeah, yeah. I’ll listen to, I’ll listen to that guy every day, man. He’s, yeah. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. You know?

Leigh Chalker (45:12):
Yeah. So, yeah. No, well, I, man, I’m with you. ’cause I, I’ve been through a, again, like lots of, lots of music for me too, man, you know, like, um, yeah. Again, um, now with your funk, you were talking to me about Funk before, so Yeah, dude. Yeah. I, I’m thinking, I’m thinking, and people may disagree with me here, but I, I’d say they’re punk, but I like the, you know, I think they got a funk element. I I’m gonna roll with, you’d probably would’ve had a listen to, uh, probably Sly and The Family Stone and probably some mc five, and you know, like all that sort of a

Jesse Dracman (45:48):
Parliament.

Leigh Chalker (45:50):
Yeah. Man and Funkadelic man, don’t get me started on Maggot Brain. Right. I’ll talk to you all day about the album Maggot Brain Man film Clips. I can tell you how many times I’ve listened to that album. It is like,

Jesse Dracman (46:05):
But let me, let me ask you, have you, to this day, in this age of CGI, nonsense and all the rest Yeah, yeah. A band like Parliament, um, I think it’s, um, Parliament’s Off the Roof. I think I could be wrong if that’s the name of the song, but that the film clip for that song is just from another world. Like, they had a freaking spaceship on the stage. They, they did had spacesuits, they had, it was just theatrical. It was like, I mean, I know, man, I, I’m a Kiss fan till I die, but man, Funkadelic the, um, the Parliament guys, man, what they did was visually was just, I, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it to this day,

Leigh Chalker (46:52):
Man. I, I reckon look, uh, you know, chin Wags are about fluidity and, and, and, and honesty, and everyone knows my story and stuff. I spent a lot of time, how shall I say, broadening my mind when I was younger and, uh, <laugh> more waste than one and, uh, 10

Jesse Dracman (47:21):
Wheel.

Leigh Chalker (47:22):
Yeah. And Parliament and Funkadelic were, well, you went through, you know, like you got in, you went through your Led Zeppelin phase and you build through your classics and all that. And then how you find your favourites have like, like that. Now Parliament was one that I remember watching a VHS video that had been recorded from someone else that had a Parliament VHS Live video. Wow. And it was the flat spaceship with them in their costumes playing all their instruments and like, you know, the, the 12 or 14 members or however many there were. And I was like, that is so awesome. And then, and then I thought, there must be more. And see, I’m like a bit of, a bit of an obsessive that’s, you know, that’s why I’ve, you know, stopped drinking and varying things. So I get, I get caught up in things, Jesse. All right. I get a little bit excited about. That’s

Jesse Dracman (48:24):
Okay.

Leigh Chalker (48:24):
Yeah. And so I went backwards and then I started coming into like, all the Funkadelic stuff and, you know, free your mind and your ass would follow up Mag Brain like, and, and all that stuff. And dude, to this day, oh mate, right. Oh man, magic man. Like, you know.

Jesse Dracman (48:44):
Yeah. It’s magic. It, it, that’s, yeah, to sum it up into one word, magic. Mm-Hmm. But like, but those being, those those acts aside, man, I, I, I dove into James Brown, like you wouldn’t believe. Yeah, man. Yeah. Oh man. Don’t even get me started on that guy. Between him and Elvis, I was covered, man. Like, you know, singing and dancing like that, man, that just profound effect on me.

Leigh Chalker (49:10):
But, um, oh man.

Jesse Dracman (49:11):
But yeah, like I said,

Leigh Chalker (49:12):
I, I dunno, did you ever try and do a set of splits like James Brown did on stage one night, man, or you thought, nah mate,

Jesse Dracman (49:19):
I thought about it, but I like my pants too, so, nah, <laugh>,

Leigh Chalker (49:24):
I dunno that man, just, he back, back up, you know? Did you ever see, did you ever see that Eddie Murphy skit that he did where he was James Brown in the hot tub? He’s in the hot tub, but I don’t know, that was the things you laugh at, man. I suppose. There’s, um,

Jesse Dracman (49:40):
I actually just last week watched a really cool live video of Eddie Murphy singing a James Brown song. I think, uh, I think it’s get up off that thing. And he was actually singing it with the James Brown Band and James Brown, and you just see James Brown stand next to him just smiling, man. And it’s like, man, that’s just like, that’s just up there, right? Like yeah. Yeah. You know, one thing to pay tribute to someone that you love, but then next minute to be on that stage with that person you love sharing that song you love, you know, it’s, um, I don’t know, man. It’s surreal, man. It’s Yeah. Surreal moments.

Leigh Chalker (50:21):
Yeah. Oh man. They’re the moments that’s what you Yeah. They, they’re, they’re, you know, like to get little gifts like that in life, man is

Jesse Dracman (50:29):
Absolutely,

Leigh Chalker (50:30):
Absolutely that luck, you know, it’s, uh, to take things and

Jesse Dracman (50:33):
Enjoy them. And I think, and I think we as people should be always grateful for any of those little moments, no matter what they are. Whether it’s a a, a nod or a handshake or an, or a conversation like this, you know, it’s, we should always be grateful for all those little things that we get to experience, you know? Agree. It’s all part of life. I agree.

Leigh Chalker (50:52):
Yeah. I, I agree with you. So I’m going to dabble into, um, you, you’ve gone to your funk now. I’m thinking that probably in your mid-teens at this point, you were probably starting to get into some heavier sort of stuff that was appealing to you a little bit.

Jesse Dracman (51:13):
Yeah. I mean,

Leigh Chalker (51:14):
And this is all coming from me listening to your tunes today. Yeah, yeah. Picking up bits and things.

Jesse Dracman (51:19):
You’re doing good. You’re doing good. You know?

Leigh Chalker (51:21):
Yeah. Little tear, bit of that. I hear a bit of this. Yeah. Yeah. And so I went with, I went with, I was hearing now this is just me. Go for it.

Jesse Dracman (51:32):
Go for

Leigh Chalker (51:32):
It. I was hearing some early nine inch nails in there, man. Yep. I was hearing some Faith No More. I was hearing some early Marilyn Manson probably no further than mechanical animals. I’m hearing that sort of a period. Yep. Uh, I was hearing some early corn, probably leaning a little, you know, like, that’s

Jesse Dracman (52:00):
All

Leigh Chalker (52:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Going alright here going alright. You’re doing great. Good. And then I started hearing things that I couldn’t quite get my finger on, and that’s when I started thinking, there you are, there’s your band. You know what I mean? But like, because I went through it in chronological order, man. Yeah, yeah. You know what? We started where you finished and um, uh, so that’s where I thought today I was like, oh, I’m gonna talk, I’m gonna see you about this. Yeah, man, because I too, um, love early Nine Inch Nails, man. Oh

Jesse Dracman (52:37):
Yeah, absolutely.

Leigh Chalker (52:39):
Big Faith. No more fan. Um, mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. I had my moments like, you know, much of us, you know, in that nineties period, um, you know, whether people like him or not now, eh, but Marilyn Manson, antichrist Superstar, his, uh,

Jesse Dracman (52:54):
Right, absolutely.

Leigh Chalker (52:55):
You know, mechanical Animals, man was an, was a great, great album. I thought.

Jesse Dracman (52:59):
Two, two banger albums, dude.

Leigh Chalker (53:01):
Yeah, yeah. Agreed. And, um, and Korn have always been Yeah. Um, a favourite of mine since I heard him on Triple J back in the, you know, like mid nineties and stuff. And uh, um, I just heard a lot of that in the band. And, um, so when you were, when you were in school and you were getting your writing together, you Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> you form and this melodic thing with you all the soundtracks and the movies and visuals are, are appealing to you because you’re a visual stage performer as well. So your theatrical side was coming out. Like, all these things are working for you to this point, man, I’m just trying to put the pieces together. You, you’re doing,

Jesse Dracman (53:42):
You’re doing good. You

Leigh Chalker (53:43):
Crack that whip brother. If I’m like overstepping the mark here, man, you know, like, no, you’re

Jesse Dracman (53:48):
Doing good.

Leigh Chalker (53:48):
Um, and, and I’m seeing it all form with you to what I saw today. And so I guess your comic books, what was that that you read that, at what point did you recognise this is what I want to do musically, and this is the theatrical side of me. I want to express myself, I’ve gotta get this shit off my chest off, you know, I’ve been to nasa, these people I go to school with, to giving me shit, you know, like it’s, you know, like there’s lots of stuff happening. Take me away from there, man. You take me on this next part of the story. It’s all yours.

Jesse Dracman (54:30):
Yeah. Thanks man. <laugh> shit. You Oh, wow. Um, it’s a lot to unpack. Um, I mean, you know, I found, I found kindred spirits of my friends, you know, uh, friends that I have to this day and, you know, we, we formed that little posse where we were kind of like the, we were the little rebel group man. Like, we weren’t like angsty rebels, but we were just rebels of, well, you guys were, you guys can all be sheep and we’ll just go be the black sheep, you know? Mm-Hmm. So we, we kind of did that. We hung out and listened to Danzig and Faith No More, and Body Count and Nine Inch Nails and all that. All the cool stuff, you know, that, that we loved, you know, like, and uh, you know, my, my best friend to this day got me exposed me to the world with Guns N Roses, and, um, yeah. Yeah. Like that whole

Leigh Chalker (55:23):
Rock and roll. Did you get into the whole, you would’ve got into like suicidal tendencies and, um, yeah. Uh, what, and, and, uh, what’s the name of the American band that were independent and, and, uh, damn they start, I’m sure they start with f they had, oh damn. Anyway, continue. I’ll come back to it like in an hour because I flogged the hell outta them too, man. Yeah,

Jesse Dracman (55:49):
Yeah. Um, I, look, I didn’t, I didn’t get deep into the Suicidals, uh, as much as I’m coming around, like I said, I’m a late bloomer to things. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, which I, I’m really cool with. I’m comfortable with it. Like I’ve, in recent years, suicidal tendencies, um, prince I’ve recently

Leigh Chalker (56:11):
Oh, I love Prince man.

Jesse Dracman (56:12):
Yeah. Well, in the last, yeah, well in the last, uh, I don’t know, let’s say in the last 10 years. Yeah. I’ve slowly developed a very deep love with Prince, you know? Oh man. Yeah. Like, uh, a guitarist friend that I’m friends with to this day that, um, we were in a band together at one point. He, uh, yeah, he introduced me to the world of Prince Man, and, uh, if you want a story, I’ve got a story for you. Hit me. Okay. So I turn, he’s a very interesting guy and he played for a, up, up until recently played for quite a famous, um, goth rock band overseas. Um, but now he’s sort of, you know, taken a step away from it. But anyway, we were in this band together and I turned up to his place one day and he answers the door butt naked.

(57:08)
Like he just moved into this new apartment and I’m like, okay. Like, he’s a very eccentric guy. So I, you know, I, I’ve come <laugh> I’ve come to accept this, oh man, trust me, this, he’s, he’s a well loved figure. But, um, he, he basically said, you know, you go to some people’s places and they say, no shoes. Well, he went, I have no clothes. So basically, if you want to go into his house, you have to be butt naked. So, Mm-Hmm. You know, here we are, butt naked and just, I don’t know why, but I just trusted him and I felt comfortable and he just, it ex uh, showed me the world of Prince and played me, you know, the Purple Rain records and all that. And just, you know, just from that we went into strapping young lads. So, there you go. But, um, you know, we, we ended up, um, going for a trek, um, out to the beach and, uh, with clothes on, of course.

(58:11)
Um, and we had to climb across a narrow cliff face that was, we could have easily fallen to our deaths. It was high, high up, and it was a very narrow cliff face that could have collapsed at any point. And we found ourselves on this beach. And, uh, there was no, we, there was no one there. It was just us. So we, we got naked and went swimming in the water, you know, and I dunno where I was going for that story, but it just, um, you know, music triggers memories and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when I think of Prince, I think of one of my dearest friends, and I think of, you know, that just life moments, you know, and that was, that was a life moment. And yeah, he, he was the kind of guy that would, you know, you’d go to a Static X concert and everyone was in black T-shirts and makeup and all the rest, and he turns up in blue jeans and a strawberry Shortcake t-shirt, you know, just, just did the polar opposite of what everyone else did, you know?

(59:08)
And I, I think I found myself, I, I guess the moral of my story, the, the point I’m making is I found myself really connected with people like that, that just Yep. Thought outside the box, um, didn’t follow the, the, the typical trends of everything else. Just basically, you know, we didn’t try to do it to be cool or anything. It was just wanted to just be our own person and just you listen to our music that we wanted to listen to. Not that, you know, anybody else could tell us what we’d listen to. And, um, you know, that’s where my, my musical taste found the worlds of strapping young lad and slayer and, um, you know, um, frigging mayhem and, and all those extreme heavy bands. But then also found, you know, a deep love for guys like Prince and <laugh>, Huey Lewis in the news, and just, I don’t know, I just found a love for music in all its forms, you know? Um, but then with comics, uh, you know, you asked me about comics early on. I think one of my first memories of a comic book was, um, an old issuer daredevil where Ekra gets stabbed. Yeah. I’m pretty sure is her or Jean De Wolf or someone someone gets, or Karen Page gets stabbed with the, the, um, si, the Ninja Si Mm-Hmm. But, um, I, I,

Leigh Chalker (01:00:34):
That would’ve been in the Frank Miller run, I’m assuming.

Jesse Dracman (01:00:37):
Yeah. Yeah. It was one of the Frank Miller Deaded Devils. Um, that was one of the first that I read that I, earliest memories, but, um, a lot of the early comics, man, just that, that I found myself falling in love with, you know, like, you know, there’s of course, Spider-Man and all that, but I, I really found myself drawn to characters like Captain Marvel, like original Captain Mar Marvel. Yeah. Yep. Yep. The one that’s the one that’s dead. That’s still dead, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there was something about that character that just resonated with me, just a, a true warrior, um, you know, a a person that spoke from the heart and lived to inspire people, and something about that character and, and Jim Stalin, the way he shaped that character, just really, uh, resonated with me in the way that I wanted to be with people. Also, I wanted to create and inspire people and make people happy. So that’s, it kind of sat with me. I’m hoping that there’s a point in all of that that I just

Leigh Chalker (01:01:44):
No, that to me, there’s a perfect point, man. I totally, I totally see that, because I can also see how with, um, you being a young fellow that was interested in space and starting to express himself too, you know, like in varying ways is like Captain Marvell at that particular time, um, was an interesting character. Um, yeah, he was, he was a standout from my, you know, like, from what I can understand of him, I mean, mate, everyone’s different. What, like, captures them? Um, I think, like, I constantly bang on doing Chin Wags about, to me the most important thing is creativity and whatever that spark is that, you know, like sets that fire man. And, um, absolutely. Whatever the path is, whatever the comic book character is, man, if it means something to you, then that’s all that matters, you know? That’s it, man.

(01:02:45)
That’s all that matters because dude, I, I’ve, I’ve had the strangest influences, man. You know, like, it’s, uh, I’m all over the board, man. Like, you know, it’s, I grew up with comics. The Crow is my comic. That’s the one where when I was a little boy, you know, like Yep. And found the two issues in a book exchange. I was used to, you know, muscle Men and tight fitting things. And then I saw a comic book that was, wow, that doesn’t look like what I’ve been reading. No, it’s completely different. Then a little while later, you know, like, everything came together and I recognised the sum is, you know, is greater than the parts, as, you know, like, and to me, that opened my mind up. And then, but you know, like at the same time, I’m a huge fan of like, um, life stories too, you know, of how people like yourself, you know, get through what they get through to create things.

(01:03:49)
So, like, you know, people like Jackson Pollock is a huge influence on me. Um, either Hile, you know, an Australian, um, war artist is a huge influence on me. Things like that. Man, I, I don’t just, I don’t just block myself much like yourself into any particular genre. I, I just let it, um, something about that, whatever it is that catches my attention is, you know, like, um, gets me. But, um, with the, um, the Marvell, um, I can totally see too, ’cause when I was watching the video, like particularly the video clip today about the song I was talking to you about, that struck me, it was, it was just a song visually by a lake. And we’ll talk about that a little bit later on. ’cause this is your hands on, um, approach, which I really like with what you did with the comic books and we’re coming into all of that. It’s, um, I liked the fact, and I can see with what you just said there about how Marvell resonated with you, and you wanted to, you know, be good for people and ha and make people happy, you know, and make them feel special. And at the end of that film clip, you had two phrases, now I’m going to paraphrase them, but one was, we are not Slaves. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and the other one after it was something like, um, oh, um, we are Ourselves or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

(01:05:28)
Alright. And it was, I found that to be particularly cool with me because I like individuality as well, mate. I like that people can be themselves, you know? Yeah. And I think people should be allowed to, so that part of that song and what you’re putting across there with Don’t Be a Slave and, you know, like, be Yourself. That sort of thing was something that I greatly appreciated as well. Oh, thanks man. Appreciate it. I know that today because I saw that today and I was like, yeah, I like that. Yeah,

Jesse Dracman (01:06:01):
That’s cool. Um,

Leigh Chalker (01:06:02):
Because I’m very much, I hate how people have become numbers in society and they’re not Yeah. You know, like, and they’re not like, you know, you’re not Lee and you’re not Jesse. You’re like, you know, you your tax file number, you know, before you remain and stuff. I hate all that stuff, man.

Jesse Dracman (01:06:19):
Yeah. It’s, um, yeah, it’s an interesting world we live in now, you know, like, and I, you know, without going too crazy into it, but just, just little things that I notice, like, can the world of Instagram and stuff, like, it’s just, um, just people are, um, I don’t know, just, um, valued by the likes they get or the content they put out, you know? And it’s, it’s not even organic content, it’s just all, I don’t know, it just, it’s very cliched, you know? And it’s, I don’t know, it just, it’s, it’s kind of a, it’s a very transparent, very robotic world, you know? It’s kind of, I don’t know, every time I see shit like that, I think of Terminator too, and Bloody Skynet, I think, ah, Skynet’s taken over. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:07:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I think what you were saying also earlier too, about, um, um, like I think people, when it comes to creativity, you know, whether it’s music or, you know, like anything that’s going to be judged by other people that are out there in the world, people are, people seem to me to be, again, everyone listening, just my opinion, like, everyone’s entitled. Yeah, that’s okay. Opinion. Yours can be ly different to mine, love you. Or, um, people are playing it really safe. Yeah. It’s like gone, gone are the days where people are pushing the threshold with their ideas and how they want to do things, you know what I mean? Like, there seem to be so many rules to creativity now Mm-Hmm. That, that the playing field’s getting smaller and smaller, you know what I mean? Like, and I just, I find it refreshing to meet people that are like, nah, bugger that, but pop this, you know what I mean? And try things, you know? Absolutely. Um, that’s just, that’s just me though. I, I’m noticing that through, um, social media’s interactions with Yeah. You know, different people and stuff like that, man, even, you know, walking down the street, people play it safe, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Jesse Dracman (01:08:31):
Well, it’s kind of interesting, like, uh, I, you know, without getting sort of controversial or whatever, but that I was recently, um, accepted for a, an, uh, an event, and the organiser said to me, look, uh, one of your comics is very graphic. Um, you know, is there any way you can cover it up from the public eye? And I just, I thought about it for a minute. I thought, well, you know, events that I’ve done where kids have, you know, kids that much like myself when I was a kid talking about, you know, how I talked about the way I, I grew up watching horror and all this cool stuff and, and seeing these kids come to my table at, at events, and they’re drawn to the gore and the zombies, and they’re just like, oh, I love, I love zombies and I love blood and guts. And it’s like, well, that’s cool, man. You know, like that’s, uh, we come from, I, you know, we come from a world where Stan wi guys like Stan Winston and, and that were Gods to us, you know? Like Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:09:32):
You know, Carl Aldi, you know, like all that stuff, man, you know? Yeah. The dude doing an alien and all, and Dune, like, you know, all that stuff was mind blowing,

Jesse Dracman (01:09:43):
Provocative, but it was all provocative. It was outside thinking outside the box.

Leigh Chalker (01:09:47):
It was, yeah.

Jesse Dracman (01:09:48):
It was not safe.

Leigh Chalker (01:09:50):
Yeah. So

Jesse Dracman (01:09:51):
To be asked, Hey, I need you to play it safe. It’s kind of goes against my beliefs a little bit, you know? And Yeah. And I, and I, I mean, of course I won’t, you know, I won’t do the wrong thing, but at the same time too, it’s like, I’m not going, if a kid wants to see blood and guts, I’m going to show them blood and guts, you know, um, with parental consent, of course. But, you know, yes. That’s, um, yeah. It’s just interesting. That’s, yeah. Trying to find the,

Leigh Chalker (01:10:16):
That’s the real, that’s the real check on your self, isn’t it? You know, when someone asks that, I think, um, again, I, you know, you’re not running around shoving it in kids’ faces, you know what I mean? Not at all. If the, if parents are okay with everything, and this is what they would like to purchase their young whipper snappers, you know what I mean? Yeah. Then yeah, no problem. You know, like, this is, well, that’s

Jesse Dracman (01:10:50):
The thing. Yeah. Like, I, I don’t, I don’t, you know, if I meet kids, I don’t say to ’em, I’m going to eat your soul and, you know, bring you to the dark side or nothing like that. I just go, Hey, man, what are you into, you know, what do you like? And they’ll tell me what they like. And, um, you know, I’m straight away thinking, well, you’re probably, you know, if I’ve got something on my table that don’t, like, I’ll go, Hey, you should read this. You know, it is pretty cool. And I talk about it with them and their parents, and next thing you know, the parents are like, yeah, okay, cool. Let’s, let’s do that. You know? Yeah. Because it’s just, it’s just educating people, giving people, um, you know, ex taking ’em past the point of, um, perception and Mm-Hmm. Just expanding their minds to, you know, the depth, the meaning, the true meaning behind what they see on the face value. And, um, you know, that’s, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:11:40):
The other thing that people, I think, um, and it saddens me to a certain extent, ’cause I would think in a world where the world is far more open to people now than it was when we were younger, you know, like, God, you had to read an encyclopaedia to understand what a particular country was, you know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. Where now you Google, you can do, you know, you can basically walk around it if you want to, you know?

Jesse Dracman (01:12:07):
Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:12:09):
Um, to think that, like you were just mentioning, yes, perhaps one of these comic books that you create may be violent, but it’s not violent deliberately. It’s violent in the style of the comic book that it is, you know, the content of what you need to create to push the story forward. But at the same time, with your sensibilities, you’re also producing a lovely children’s book. You know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> that is beside this. And I find it unusual that someone would just automatically come back and pigeonhole you for that particular comic book when I think that you’ve got several that, um, are very much Jesse Jackman, but yeah. Um, are of different levels as well. You know? Um, for me personally, dude, I would not have been particularly impressed by being asked that, um, how I operate and where I am as a human being. Knowing myself now at 46 years of age, I probably would have, thank you very much for the offer. I won’t be accepting that. And yeah. Probably walked away. That’s just me. You know, that’s, that’s, I don’t agree with censorship and shit like that, man. You know, like, I think, you know, to a certain not of creating like creative Yeah. Voicing, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, certainly censorship when it comes to like, violence and stuff on streets and things like that, and awful

Jesse Dracman (01:13:47):
Things. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:13:48):
People don’t need to, but when it comes to creation, like comic books and paintings and things like that, expressionism is like a very, very healthy thing. And I believe that’s possibly one of the reasons why there is so much, uh, one of the causes of so much mental health and, and, and people not being able Yes, I agree to, uh, express how they feel in today’s world, man, because they, you know, like, they, they can’t get it out verbally. Yeah,

Jesse Dracman (01:14:18):
I agree. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:14:19):
And I think,

Jesse Dracman (01:14:20):
Well, it’s funny, you know, because what, what we’ve just, you know, what we’ve been talking about with childhoods and listening to music and opening those imagin imaginary doorways and stuff like that, you don’t get that in today’s world. And if you do, like, you know, I, I apologise, but I find it’s, um, yeah, it’s a different world today, creatively to what? To the world that we grew up in, you know, like, um, uh, we had the power of our imagination. We didn’t have the answers given to us on a silver platter, you know? Mm-Hmm. Um, you know, whereas today you can just, like you say, pick up your phone and it’s like a, you know, it’s like two minute noodles. It’s bam, there you go. Instant answer. Um, whereas, you know, using the power of music or, or reading, you could unlock doorways in your mind and, and create your own ideas and your own interpretations, um, through your creativity and your imagination. And, and I just feel like those, those doorways are getting narrower in today’s world. But I mean, that’s just me. That’s, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:15:24):
Well, that’s my opinion. I would tend to, I would tend to agree with you, mate. Um, but like for me, I don’t have children. I only know, um, from people, um, that I know that are younger than me and what I see walking, you know, like around and people getting by. Um, I don’t know them personally. People may have different views, but to me, I would agree from my assessment of things from the outside looking in, um, uh, yes. Because the one thing well, with ’cause with creativity for me, Jesse, and like, um, like it let with, I think when I’m at my most stressed and I get, I can get stressed, I’m a pretty relaxed dude, right. But I can, you know, we can have our peak moments, dude, where things just boom onto us. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, I tend to find in my moments of stress, I’m one of those dudes that doesn’t just get one thing, you know what I mean?

(01:16:25)
I’ll have like three, four months. Yeah. And the minute I’m like, yeah, it’s all good. It’s just like, boom, bucket full of fish. You know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. It’s like, um, and I find in those moments, men that, um, that’s usually when I pull back from social media and people and things like that. Yeah. Because I find it’s a little bit easier just to step back, not have things in your face all the time, or, or people or those sorts, and just breathe, man. Yeah. And just allow yourself time to yourself and to think and analyse this shit. I think that sometimes too, man, creativity can get lost and possibly to a certain extent. And, you know, like from my view, um, can be a little, perhaps not pushing the boundaries, because people don’t have those moments where they can be with themselves in the mind.

(01:17:16)
You know what I mean? To like Yeah, that’s right. Allow their mind to stretch and think about things, you know what I mean? And, um, some ideas are good, some ideas are bad. Like, I mean, there’s, you know, like, whatever, whatever works, man. But yeah, that’s right. That’s my take on things, man. ’cause I, I’ve been since, um, since sobriety, um, two and a half years ago and onwards into my third year, I’ve like had this Thank you mate. Appreciate that. Um, I, it means a lot. Thank you. Yeah. Um, um, I’ve, I’ve been on this creative oh man, like rocket for, for, you know, talking about space. I’ll use that. Like anything I can do to increase my creativity and just spark those anything, man. And, um, I’ve gone down like, just like lots of like meditation things, spiritual things, lots of things to try and kick, kick, kick, kick, kick.

(01:18:12)
And, um, and the one thing out of all of it that I’ve found that produces the ideas the most, um, within my mind is time to myself. You know, away from things with like, your Miles Davis and your cold traine going in the background, listening to the song. You know, like just little things, not Yeah. Everything in your face. And, but ding, ding, ding, ding going off, and like, oh, it’s just time. You know? Yeah. That is just me. Um, but no, no, it’s, it, it’s good. We were talking too before, um, something I want to touch on ’cause, um, yeah. Um, now I know that you are quite happy to talk about this. Um, it’s something that I noticed recently is, uh, now comic book conventions. Yes. Now, I’m no expert on them. I don’t profess to be, I’m just looking at the facts, so I’m not judging anyone.

(01:19:15)
Right. But the facts are the Brisbane and the Gold Coast supernova. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> over six months out sold out of Artist Alley. And you know, like varying tables, there is no more openings for Nope. Any more creators. Independence, you know, like anything, you gotta go on a wait list, you gotta go on a wait list. So I found it interesting as I was sort of, do, you know, ’cause things that catch my interest, I like to have a look at. Yeah, yeah, of course. Um, and I found the lack of creators tours with comic books independent or, you know, however Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> the lack of them at these places disturbing. Yep. It seems to be overtaken by fan art. No offence to fan art. No. God, love you. You do what you gotta do to make a quid. Absolutely. I’m not saying anything against it.

(01:20:19)
I’m a creator of comic books. I’m talking from a creator’s perspective. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I’m singing a lot of that sort of stuff. And it worries me as someone who knows people yourself, varying other people that can’t even get a look in mate. You know what I mean? Like, what, what are your thoughts, because I know you are a regular at these gigs and stuff like that as well. Yeah. You like to get out and about and you’re a people person and meet other creators. Yeah. What are your thoughts on the comic book conventions at the moment with that? Y

Jesse Dracman (01:20:55):
Yeah. Look, it’s, um, like I’ve, I’ve only, I’m, I’m still pretty new to it. Um, I think two or three years in, but, um, doing the conventions, but I’ve been gonna the conventions for a long time, so I’ve been a fan. You know, I always go, ’cause I wanna meet the guests, you know, like I’ve gotten to meet Todd McFarlane and Richard Keel and Yeah. Yeah. You know, Tony Todd, and even, um, David Harris from The Warriors, who I’ve created a friendship to this day. Yeah, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:21:23):
You know, Hey, how’s that for a dream man? Hey, watching that as a kid, doing a book. And there he’s your mate there. He’s beautiful thing, man.

Jesse Dracman (01:21:30):
It’s crazy man magic.

(01:21:33)
But, um, in the last year, I, I found myself doing a lot of conventions. So I did Taz Pop Dan in Tasmania. I did Supernova, gold Coast, Adelaide and Brisbane Fraser Pop in Maryborough, capric Con in Rockhampton, Gladstone Pop Con in Yep. In Gladstone. Um, you know, so I just, I really got out there because I wanted to meet the people and just really just see what the markets were like. And man, just, kids just love seeing someone that’s created comic books or, or written a book. You know, there’s, everyone’s into different things, right? Yeah. And it’s interesting, man, you know, the fan art thing, it’s, I’m not against it. God love them, they’ve gotta make it quit.

Leigh Chalker (01:22:20):
Yep. And

Jesse Dracman (01:22:21):
I have friends that do it, but at the same time too, you also are privy to hear some of the conversations these guys have, and the focus is about how much money they make. It’s not about, oh, I met this really cool kid that wants to draw. It’s, it’s more like, oh yeah, I only made three grand this weekend. And it’s like, man, I’d be stoked if I just made, you know, the money back on my table. And then some, which I’m fortunate that I do. But for, for me, the, the convention thing, it’s, it’s such a vital platform for us creators. It is, it is such a platform for us to showcase, um, the talent here in Australia, uh, who we are as creators. But it’s also a really good opportunity for us to meet each other too, man. ’cause through these conventions, um, even when I wasn’t a vendor, when I was just a fan, um, I always went down to the indie press zone and just, um, always met all the artists and the authors and that, and just got talking to ’em.

(01:23:27)
Um, not to steal ideas, but just to get inspiration and just get guidance. Um, and man, it’s, yeah. It’s, it’s really, it’s really sad when you hear things like, you know, a major event. Like, um, you know, that getting sold out because it’s, you know, I, I did one on the Gold Coast recently, and yeah, most of the, most of the stalls were fan art stalls. Hmm. And, you know, I, and that’s not me firing shots, I’m just saying like, that’s what I saw. Well, it’s fact. That is my observation. It’s it’s fact. It’s a fact.

Leigh Chalker (01:24:07):
<laugh>, it’s there. So you’re not making stuff up like it’s

Jesse Dracman (01:24:10):
There. No, and it’s great. I mean, look, it is great. Like, I love seeing, there is some amazing, talented artists that do incredible, um, pieces of, you know, all the, the stuff that’s cool right now. ’cause that’s what they do. They follow the trends of what is, what is good right now. ’cause I remember for the longest time it was Stranger Things. So every second person wanted an Eddie art print, you know? So if you wanted to make money, you did Prince of Eddie, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you know, and that’s the thing. But the, the downside is that the, the, there’s no, there’s no, um, gateway to expose them to new ideas, you know? And, and some, some artists, they do do it. There are some guys, um, I won’t name names for, you know, nothing negative or positive, just, you know, outta respect.

(01:25:05)
But there are guys that they use the fan art as a necessary evil to finance what they do. And I respect it. I respect them, you know, God love ’em for it. Yep. But they also promote their own original work as well. So like, some guys have original graphic novels and stuff, which is great. And that to me is, is a perfect compromise. But when you’ve got people that are just exclusively fan art and, but there’s, you know, 20 plus of the, the same thing. It’s, you know, yeah. We are not a huge population of creators, but man, yeah. It’s, it sucks when there’s an event that you think, you know, you go around, you count the number of creators like you that are at each event, and you can count on one hand how many actual creators there are. And that’s, it’s sad.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:00):
I, I would think, man, that, um, the word you used there and describing that compromise would possibly be the most active word, because I understand that cons are about making money. They’ve got, you know, like Yep. Big buildings there in lights, staff, all that. They want to put the things in there that attract the most, you know, like, um, off street, you know, like punters and to bring them in. And that’s obviously a very good way of doing things. Yeah. Of course. People making money off doing other, you know, all that stuff. A hundred percent. Man, it’s not about that for me. Like, I just wanna make it clear in case anyone out there is going like, what’s this dickhead about to say? <laugh>? Well, what I’m going to say is that compromise, I think what you said there, Jesse, and what you can see in conventions is also across the board of creativity.

(01:27:07)
People seem to be scared to have a look at new ideas. People seem to be scared to push boundaries of creativity. Instead, they go back into their safety nets and they go for what they know. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. They do not go and have a look at, Hey, what is that? Let me have a look at that. Let me have a look at this. Hence, we are getting so many bloody remakes of movies, hence we are getting so, you know, prequels, all these things. I mean, independent cinema is dying. I mean, I doubt someone like David Lynch could get into a cinema now, you know what I mean? Yeah. With the written content and things like that. Yeah. That’s what I’m disappointed at. And to think that, like, people that are creators, that when you were that little kid, or I was that little kid that went and got comic books off the newsstand, that was blown away by meeting these people. Mm. You know what I mean? Those kids won’t have the opportunity to go and meet those people. And therefore it worries me for the state of Australian comic books. Yep. Um, you know, and the strength of the medium. That’s where I’m at. I just would think that if you’re a comic con, there’s possibly, you know, it’s age old argument, but you do Hello, hello, Don Teo, you champion. What a good man.

(01:28:27)
Yeah. That’s cool. With Comic Con, I would think that there’s possibly, you know, possibly think about having a comic or two there, but, you know, I mean, it’s just me. Um,

Jesse Dracman (01:28:36):
Well, it’s, it’s true, man, because, uh, yeah, like the, you, you hit the null in the head, you know, and expanding on my point about compromise, because, um, you know, they, there was a, there was an event where Tom Taylor was a guest. Mm. Now, you know, he’s without a doubt one of Australia’s biggest exports

Leigh Chalker (01:28:57):
Absolutely. In the comic

Jesse Dracman (01:28:58):
Industry as a writer. Yeah. But he had to start somewhere too. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, um, I remember when he was doing Novas as a small fry guest, you know, like, and always loved talking to him. And, and he’s never changed. He’s always been one of the good guys. But the problem is, is that we celebrate on a grand platform, like these conventions, people like Tom Taylor. But the thing is, for the kids that love his work, or they love or wanna get into comic books, it’s, they’re missing out, um, on that education of finding other creators, of finding that next Tom Taylor or or whoever for that matter, you know, a, a new Todd McFarlane or, or, or Jim Stalin or any, any of the greats out there, you know, they’re, they’re there. They’re just not getting the opportunity to be seen. Yep. And if they do get the opportunity, it’s a very, very small window. Mm-Hmm. You know, and I, I know there’s probably people that disagree with that, but, you know, it’s, that’s just speaking from experience, you know, and, um,

Leigh Chalker (01:30:04):
These, these are, these are all, um, these are all observations made by you. I, I don’t judge, I would hope that no one viewing this judge’s anyone’s opinion on any of these chinwag. This is the beauty of the Chinwag mate,

Jesse Dracman (01:30:15):
Honestly. Yeah. Don’t get me wrong, man. I’m, I’m, I’m humble and grateful for all the opportunities and all the events that I’ve gotten to be a part of, some of which I’ve been invited, um, to the regionals as a guest to actually be a guest speaker. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, which I’ve thoroughly enjoyed, because it’s given me a chance to, to not just not use it as a talk about me, myself, and I, but more talk about the opening that doorway that my English teacher opened for me, and transferring that idea to young minds or, or even, you know, um, our age group, you know, of people that just, that wanna create, you know, and just saying, I can and I will. You know, that’s, that’s to me, the essence of what’s so important about doing these conventions is opening those doorways for the next creator to come through and, and have a shot. You know, much like what I did with Music, man, same thing.

Leigh Chalker (01:31:15):
Did you find with, um, did you find with music that, um, when you were coming through, because, um, um, now for anyone out there, I’m, I’m gonna let Jesse tell you about his music, because you can obviously see that music plays a huge part in his creative journey as well. And, um, that’ll tee into how the comic books came about. Um, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> once that, um, rolled in. But, um, now you were on a large scale, um, of music performer. You weren’t like, um, pub Band, you know what I mean? Like, or playing in front of 10 people. You would’ve been, obviously when you started, but you know, like you got fairly, you know, like <laugh> respectable, I would say. Yeah. Like, uh, level. So, um, tell us the name, man. Talk us through that little journey. ’cause it’s all time.

Jesse Dracman (01:32:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, for, for 10 years, over 10 years, um, uh, I’ve been part of a band called Dark Cell. Um, we’re in a very deep hibernation at the moment, you know, just ’cause, I mean, it’s long story, but anyway, we, you know, we, we came up through the ranks like any band, dude, we did it for fun. We still, to this day, always did it for fun. But we played to those four people. You know, we travelled, we did shows where we travelled all the way to Sydney to play to four people in a pub exactly like that, man. But we played, like, we were, every gig we played, like we were playing to 10,000 people. You know, that was our, that was our attitude was every show had to count. And we put on the same 110% performance every time I gave it everything on stage till I had nothing left in the tank.

(01:33:03)
You know, like that was the, the attitude that we hit the stage with every performance. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and yeah, I mean, the, the hard work pays off. You know, like we, we were fortunate we got to a level where we got to tour with most of our favourite bands. You know, we got to play the, the Sound Wave Festival, not once, but, uh, twice. But even though the second time got cancelled. But, um, you know, we got, uh, got to tour with, you know, bands like Motionless and Wyatt, and, uh, numerous times Wednesday, 13, and, you know, um, rubbing Shoulders with the likes of Rob Zombie and Korn, and, you know, all these great guys. And, um, then yeah, our music took us to around America and all over Europe, um, playing to, you know, thousands of people in Germany at a festival with, you know, bands like Cradle of Filth and, you know, all these incredible bands.

(01:34:03)
So yeah, it was, it was a, it was a time, do you know? And we, we met some amazing people, made some amazing fans, made incredible music. And, um, the Pandemic, um, you know, it kind of gave us an opportunity to just, um, live life again, because, I mean, for the, you know, for, you know, a a lot of people, you don’t realise what goes into what, what you have to do to, to get in that position. And we were by no means, you know, by no means do I say we’re up there with Motley Crew or any of those sort of bands where way off. But we got to a point where to get to even that point, we gave up so much. We sacrificed weddings, funerals, birthdays, like important life events. You should never give up. Yeah. Um, but we sacrificed finances, relationships, you name it. We sacrificed it, um, to give people, you know, the best show we could give them and the best music we could give them, you know? And, um, yeah. Um, it was, it was a great time, man. We learned so much about ourselves and, and each other. And, um, yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s helped me with what I do with my comics today, man. So I’m very grateful. Um, yeah. Yeah. Very grateful. Did

Leigh Chalker (01:35:32):
You find, have you found on your travels that, um, whether it be comics or music, just touching on what you were saying there, mm. That, um, the creativity and the drive that you obviously had to be successful, like you were with Dark Cell?

Jesse Dracman (01:35:51):
Mm.

Leigh Chalker (01:35:51):
Did you find that there was lots of sacrifice for the creativity for that freedom as you just touched on? Like, it’s a, you know, yeah. Um, and is that why you just had, you’ve had a little bit of a breakdown just to decompress Yeah. Back into reality, love the people you love and who you’re with, and just touch base again, you know, like with, um, pretty much yourself and that.

Jesse Dracman (01:36:18):
Yeah. Because, um, yeah, pretty much.

Leigh Chalker (01:36:20):
Yeah. I, I think you just described that really well, man, because, um, thank you. I, that’s, that’s, that’s a hundred percent okay, mate, because I like it when, um, honesty is a good thing and Mm. The other thing is man, you know, like whether, you know, you being in a successful band, but just like, I will hear it there with you, man, like, just saying like, the things we sacrifice, like funerals, weddings, you know, things that people take for granted, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, and I don’t think, I don’t think many people realise the sacrifices that creatives in general sacrifice, mate. No,

Jesse Dracman (01:37:01):
That’s it. There’s a lot. There’s a lot. And it’s, and it, it can take a toll mentally on you as well. Oh. You know, like, um, I think, you know, it’s been, it’s been a couple of, it’s been a hot minute since we’ve been together making music. But, um, you know, having that time to just be human and live life and do normal things, it’s, um, yeah. It’s, it’s amazing. It’s, it’s, um, yeah. It, it’s, it’s, it’s a time of healing, that’s for sure.

Leigh Chalker (01:37:31):
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Because you would’ve had a lot of emotional burnout too, I’m assuming. ’cause with all that touring stuff, there’s no sleeping, there’s, you know, you’ve gotta kick going. You’re up, you’re down, you’re partying, you, you’re band, and you know, it, you’re all, and like, I mean, I, I never had the opportunity to see you live. But, um, as I said to you today, particularly, um, majority of the day I’ve been watching, um, all of Dark Cells, YouTube stuff, and, uh, listening to your album and album, I should say. Um, and just soaking it all in, um, just so I help get a picture of you, Jesse, and, um, um, and there’s definite energy mate coming through, you know what I mean? Like, even on your live clips, like, I’m like, you know, okay. You know, like, yeah. Like, man, I’m surprised you didn’t have someone drag you off at the end. You know, <laugh>, like, would’ve

Jesse Dracman (01:38:21):
It got a bit like that <laugh>?

Leigh Chalker (01:38:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Because like, you know, and, and it wasn’t just a rock and roll performance, medal performance you were putting on men. I mean, you guys were like, in a high level theatric, like, um, you know, there’s, there’s makeup, there’s boots. You had your own style thing going on, and, and image that you had on stage. I mean, God, man, I even in one of the things, like, the weird things I noticed, I noticed that you had a particular microphone stand that looked like it had, uh, chains, you know, like Yeah. Welded together so it could come up. And I noticed that. Yeah. And I was like, man, you guys are like, to me, that was, I like detail. I’ve just always been someone that appreciates detail, you know? And I looked at that today while I was watching, and I was like, I respect, you know what I mean?

(01:39:08)
Like, you took the time to like, go to that detail, man. Like, so no, like, um, the whole thing, um, yeah. Is really good. And the fact that you’re, um, you know, like, you’ve obviously mindful and been through a lot, probably more than I would never expect you to discuss things like on the show. But obviously from the way that, you know, you felt like, I felt that man when you said, yeah. Thanks man, you sacrificed a lot. So. Yeah. Um, yeah. I’ll, I’ll just let people dwell on the sacrifices of creatives because while people are out there enjoying the CDs and, and reading the comics and stuff like that, the stuff that goes on behind scenes, you know what I mean? Like, can be very heavy, man, you know? Oh yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s a road. People, it’s

Jesse Dracman (01:39:55):
A long road. It’s a long road, man, you know? Yeah, for sure. And I’ve learned, I’ve learned that in comics as well, man. It’s a long road, man. So, but we do it because we love it, you

Leigh Chalker (01:40:03):
Know? Yeah. Well, that’s the main thing, man. Like, if you come into anything that you do creatively first without love, like, I think the biggest mistake you can make, man, is like, if you do anything without love, man, you on the wrong road, dude. You know what I mean? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Like, you gotta really, you gotta feel it, man. You know? Like you do, you do. You know, like, you can’t just be, oh, but I’ll make a million dollars. But, you know, like, Nope, no <laugh>, nope. <laugh>, you know, like, you know, it may happen, you know, there’s some that get lucky, but like, it’s long roads, man, these things, you know, like, um, and pain and, and blood and, uh, lots of stuff that go into it. There is, and you’re right, relationship, sacrifice, friendships, lost all for the sake of art, mate. You know what I mean?

(01:40:53)
It’s, um, pretty unbelievable. Um, something I never realised either until I started doing all this sort of stuff, man, you know, <laugh>. So, yeah. It’s just nice to hear someone else, you know, it’s obviously that sort of thing. Um, not nice as such, but, uh, it, it, I feel it. When you mentioned, um, uh, now you’ve gone through to the pandemic now with you, you’re very hands on here. I like it. You’ve got your identity with the band. You’ve grown up with your mates, you’re coming through, you’ve been driving down to Sydney, playing front of four people, but you are like, fuck, I’ll give it to ’em, man. ’cause this is what I believe in. And I like that you got the spirit’s pumping. You come into the pandemic, you need some time. It came along at a good time. What you were saying, I need a breather.

(01:41:44)
The boys need a breather. We’ve been through a lot. You, you know, you, you’ve got the, the, the, the ideas of Stephen King and, and, um, uh, Daredevil and Frank and stuff in your mind. Like when you were in Dark Cell and you were on the road. So I’m coming into this point now where pandemic, and we’re gonna start hitting and touching bass with your comics and stuff in a second. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But when, ’cause you’re writing the lyrics for Dark Cell, you know, you, you’ve got thoughts there. Like I was touching on before about the you are not a slave, you know, like, you want people, you are trying to get the message across that people be yourself. You are unique and beautiful. You know what I mean? Smile, love, life. These are all great messages in, well, you know, <laugh> strange times. Mm-Hmm. But these are important messages for people to remember. You know, pride yourself on your, uh, uniqueness and love yourself, um, yeah. Um, and have self-worth. Um, and if anyone tell treats you like shit, kick ’em out the door. Um, and politely. Um, and with your, were you writing your, your, your stories at this point while you were doing lyrics? Were you taking, were you writing diaries of your travels? Were you journaling? Like, how were you keeping your writing going, man?

Jesse Dracman (01:43:11):
Well, where it all, where it all started was, it goes back to 2015 when we toured America. Um, I mean, I, I didn’t even know how I pulled this off. ’cause I was, at that point I was still drinking. Um, I mean, I’m like you, man. I’m, I’m quite a few years sober now, so I’m pretty happy about that. But at the time, man, I was, you know, living the life and

Leigh Chalker (01:43:34):
Well, congratulations for you too, Jesse, mate. Thanks

Jesse Dracman (01:43:37):
Buddy. Appreciate it. Thank you. But the thing was, I kept, um, my mom gave me a bunch of notebooks and said, you know, just in case you want to put ideas down or whatever, or, or keep a diary, so I did, I kept a daily diary. Yeah. Um, every day that we were on the road for six weeks. And I just documented, uh, you know, just all the important things, you know, the things that we tend to forget. And, um, so, you know, fast forward years later, I put it all together into a manuscript to put into a, you know, create a novel from it. Yeah. And, uh, you know, long story short, the bands that, uh, one of the bands in the, the main band that we were touring with got, um, got heavy into it, you know, a heavy divorce between band members and courts and all this sort of stuff.

(01:44:29)
And, um, yeah, we kind of got pulled into it a bit. So my vision of putting the book out was put on hold for the indefinite time because it, it has nothing indi, you know, indiscriminate, um, about that, that band or anything like that. But just outta respect to my friends, you know, I chose not to to publish it. Yep. Um, so I went with Plan B, and I had this idea, and this is where the Stephen King thing came seeing I, I started thinking about, well, I don’t know, I don’t know where exactly it started, but I had this idea reading through my notes going, fuck, this is a great story and I wanna share it, but what if I, what if I turned it into a series of books but turned it into a horror story? So the, yeah. You get to read the exploits of the band going on tour, but we’ve got a world of werewolves and vampires and zombies and everything else.

(01:45:27)
And I wrote, what would be the first novella that was Frankenstein. And that was my therapy, um, during pandemic. Um, ’cause I had friends that were like myself, weren’t dealing with things very well. Mm. Um, our, you know, we went, a lot of us went to dark places. Some didn’t make it back. Yep. And I, I had to think fast. And because I didn’t want to go down that road, um, I could see that road and I didn’t want to go there. So I started writing and I found very quickly that was a very, um, very self-healing form of therapy that helped me just get my brain go, just kept my creative juices flowing. And I had such a good time writing this story, and I shared it with friends. And, um, the, the response was really cool. And, um, a lot of people commented on my writing style saying, it’s, it’s like you’re talking to us. It’s like you’re having a conversation. Um, and it’s like you can visualise what’s happening. You can see it all happening. And it, and one friend said to me, it, it reads like a comic book. And it just went, uh, a little light bulb just went off in my head and I went, yeah. A comic book. And I just straight away started thinking about writing a comic book version. ’cause I, I had this plan to do like 12 novellas of Frankenstein and create these short stories.

Leigh Chalker (01:46:59):
Yeah.

Jesse Dracman (01:47:00):
Um, which I might, I might go back to one day because I only made one book. But, um, I just went with, um, starting a comic book. And, um, I came out with this anti-hero for the rock and roll generation, you know, basically I just took the, the, the skeleton of my story, which was touring America. And in this comic book series, I’ve created the story of a band that gets mer, you know, mauled by werewolves and reassembled and turned into this entity called Frankenstein. With, along with our tour manager Chippy, we ride across America. And the very RV that we travelled across America in, um, you know, slaying monsters in every city that we played in, every venue that we played in is in the comic book. And, um, you know, while we’re looking for a decent burrito, you know,

Leigh Chalker (01:47:52):
<laugh> a decent burrito. Yeah. Because we,

Jesse Dracman (01:47:56):
We, we, we lived on 37 cent burritos from Walmart, man, and yeah, they, they filled the belly, but they don’t feel the, uh, the happiness.

Leigh Chalker (01:48:05):
Oh, dear God. It’s, um, I could only imagine like after a while it would’ve been like, um, that dude who was just eating McDonald’s for a month, man. Yeah, yeah. He would’ve started to feel not like healthy. And like it would’ve been like, whoa, I’m not feeling real flash here. You know, like, no,

Jesse Dracman (01:48:24):
No. Well, we had moments like that, but, you know, lucky we, you know,

Leigh Chalker (01:48:29):
Are you a young man? You were young, you were rocking, you know what I mean? You were, were partying, you were travelling. I mean, like, dude, you know, like

Jesse Dracman (01:48:36):
We made sure we had two things always in the RV man fridge full of beer, um, <laugh> more so for our, our tool manager, um, <laugh> and, and always had burritos and um, and scoops. We don’t have scoops in Australia, but the tote corn chips. Yeah. Um, yeah. We had tote corn chips that are called scoops are like, you scoop ’em in melted cheese and it’s, yeah. It’s something that we’re sadly missing here in Australia. It’s freaking awesome. But Yeah. So memories. Yeah. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:49:06):
Memories. It’s, uh, but you know,

Jesse Dracman (01:49:08):
But that’s what I’m transferring in my comic books, man. Yeah. That’s all that, all that, all those memories. So Yeah. Well,

Leigh Chalker (01:49:14):
That’s, that’s cool too. ’cause that’s, um, generally for me, what the best writing, uh, the best reading of comic books is, um, stuff that is based on reality men and put into a way that is digestible to you, um, in terms of, um, like what worked for you, because I mean, I’m assuming all of the band stuff would’ve, like, you would’ve been, oh, and then, you know, wow, wounded need time to heal, pandemic’s hit, not able to catch up with mates and stuff, go into lockdown, because I know you’re, you’re a big city boy, um, these days and you would’ve been back then in Brisbane. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I never had that. ’cause I’m from Townsville up in Yep. Far north. And mate, it was business as usual man. Yeah. I think we had a total lockdown of like, mate, I think two days from memory Wow. Where everyone sat in their houses and then it was just like, everyone just go about their business. You know what I mean? Like, so I never, I never essentially experienced the whole, um, I’ve been in my house for nine months and, you know, scratching the wall sort of thing, you know, like the hedges, you know, like Right. It

Jesse Dracman (01:50:29):
Was like walk, it was like walking dead, dude. It was like Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> I times that I could get out. ’cause you, you, you could get out of your, your apartment to go get groceries if you know necessary. As long as you proved that you were going to get groceries and you, you, I would walk down the main streets of the city that were normally dominated with traffic and foot traffic and there was not a assault on the street, man. Yeah. It was like a scene outta walking dead, dude. Just, yeah. Rick Grimes just on a horseback going through the highway of

Leigh Chalker (01:51:01):
Empty. How did you prove that you were just going shopping? Did just some blo Go ahead, Jesse. Where are you going mate? You better just be going shopping. Yeah, mate, I’m just going shopping all mate. No,

Jesse Dracman (01:51:10):
Well you, I remember, I remember you could get away with it if you had a shopping bag,

Leigh Chalker (01:51:15):
<laugh>. Oh yes. You know, let’s shut the country down and as long as you got a shopping bag, you can go anywhere you want. Pretty much.

Jesse Dracman (01:51:24):
Man. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:51:27):
Oh man. Oh, don’t, uh, just societal things, man. They make me laugh. Hey, you know? Oh, yeah,

Jesse Dracman (01:51:34):
Yeah, yeah. It’s crack up, man.

Leigh Chalker (01:51:35):
Yeah. But, but not the mental health issue because there was a lot of people that suffered mental health issues. Yeah. Yeah, man. And it was a terrible thing. And um, I’m glad you were able to get through it from creativity, mate. You know? Yes. Like, creativity saved you from that man where, um, without going into, uh, details, I’m assuming that some of the other folk that you know of, I mean, I know folk that didn’t have anything creative and that live in other, you know, states and territories and things struggled because they just didn’t have anything that they could get, you know? Um, you know, get it out, man, you know? Yeah,

Jesse Dracman (01:52:15):
Yeah. Well, at that point, you know, I just started, um, becoming a roadie, um, Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> working behind the scenes, you know, just to keep my foot in my feet in the door of music. And, um, you know, a lot of the friends that I made that are roadies, you know, when pandemic hit that was disconnected. So we were, our lifeline was gone. Yeah. And a lot of my friend, you know, I had friends that aren’t with us anymore because they just couldn’t, they just couldn’t hold, hold on and, and get through it. So Yeah. It’s frigging yeah, there, there’s a lot of darkness around that time of our lives. But, you know, there’s a lot, also a lot of good that came out of a lot of people recreated themselves and created new lives and, um, you know, people like me started writing books and, you know, yeah. There, there’s, there’s certain good parts to it, so, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:53:11):
Well, people like you started, um, you know, writing comic books, man, maintaining a positive attitude throughout all the parties in the ass kicks, man, which is a difficult thing to do. Um, um, trust me, like I can tell it’s hard to keep your chin up when you feel like you’re just getting belted left, right, and centre. But yeah, man, you gotta keep, you know, only forward as they say. That’s

Jesse Dracman (01:53:39):
It, man. That’s it.

Leigh Chalker (01:53:41):
Now what, um, with Frankenstein, now you finished that comic book series now for the time being, haven’t you? There were four issues from memory or yours? There is

Jesse Dracman (01:53:52):
No, no, I’m, I’m, I’m on number five right now. I’m working number five.

Leigh Chalker (01:53:57):
Yep. Beautiful. Now what I wanna get to you with his here, because you mentioned your environmental, um, processes earlier by Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Recycling now. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. You are a busy, busy dude. Um, because like, even, um, like we had to work our ways into, you know, for you to be here tonight, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because tricky.

Jesse Dracman (01:54:26):
Yeah. Thanks man.

Leigh Chalker (01:54:27):
You got a house and you know, like you just, you’re hustling, you’re doing your thing, you living, man, you know, you’re doing your thing and that’s cool. Um, but I love the fact, man, that what I like about you, Jesse, from what I can piece together here, man, in the limited like, like the time I’ve spent with you today and the 45 minutes I’ve spent with you today, you’re sensitive to things. Say you’re empathic, you’re aware of what’s going on around you, and, but in order to get things done, you don’t give a fuck. If you want to get it done and you need to do it, you will do it one way or another. And that’s a very like determination, man. Not anger. Anger turned into determination is an amazing ability and it’s one I respect you being able to like, use your, like, I’m going to recycle it is good for everything I’ve been, you know, ’cause some people Jesse would, you know, they’ve been in a rock and roll band, man, you know, of some calibre, would not think along these lines of view, like the way you are thinking in terms of, I’m going to recycle, I’m going to use that money to put it towards the comic book.

(01:55:43)
Create like yourself as the writer, but the artist and help them out and legit pay for them in, you know, troubled times. ’cause I wanna see that done. And then you compartmentalise your life into other areas, you know, like, so you, you, you are organised, you’re motivated. Um, again, Frankenstein, you’ve got the, um, the warriors, the, the, um, oh,

Jesse Dracman (01:56:07):
Furious, the

Leigh Chalker (01:56:08):
Furious comic book with, um, you know, warriors. You know, like, I love mean, I love warriors, but those baseball bat carrying dudes, man, you know, like, well

Jesse Dracman (01:56:18):
They, they’re the, they’re the basis of my story, dude. So Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (01:56:22):
Yeah. The freakiest dudes ever when you’re a kid was those guys, you know. Um, and, but the,

Jesse Dracman (01:56:30):
Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:56:31):
Man, just with respect, like

Jesse Dracman (01:56:33):
Mm-Hmm.

Leigh Chalker (01:56:36):
What, what honestly drives you to do that, because to me it’s just like, you just seem really, well, you’re very self-aware of what you want. I think it’s a good quality, but I genuinely, like for my lack of articulation would suggest that you are very motivated and if you need to do something, you will find whatever means necessary to do it. And is Yeah. That,

Jesse Dracman (01:57:00):
Yeah. I mean, look, that’s a, that’s a really good question. Um, it’s, man, I, I wish I could say it’s easy every day, but it’s not. I mean, I have, I have days where I, I’ll be honest, I don’t never, I never ever say it out loud, but I have days sometimes where I, my, my head is so low that, uh, you know, I almost have tears because I’m just like, man, why am I doing this to myself? You know? Like, I just, um, you know, because it, it’s, some days are easier than others, you know, you, yeah. Because after, you know, the, the, the process of creativity is one thing, but then you’ve gotta become the salesman and you’ve gotta get people to look, look and get into your product. And that’s another thing altogether. And in this day of social media domination, it’s, it’s a very bitter pill to swallow if you are not that person that create, you know, knows the algorithms and knows how to create content and, uh, you know, be that player in the scene.

(01:58:05)
It’s, and, and all you’re trying to be is authentic and just sell authentic product. It’s very hard to some days, um, keep your head up, you know, keep your chin up. Yeah. Um, but for me, I just go, I just reflect on a lot of what we talked about tonight, um, you know, family and, and childhood and, and the power of imagination and bringing ideas to life. And I think to myself, you know, if I don’t do this, somebody else will or nobody will, you know? And, um, I just, I don’t know. I, I, I don’t have a definitive answer of what drives me, but I just, I just know it’s something that I’ve gotta do. And I’ve always, I’ve always carried this attitude and this advice that I’ve given to people, um, in music. And even now the days in art, I, you know, in comics, I go, man, don’t be that person that lives life going, oh, yeah, I used to have long hair.

(01:59:02)
I used to be in a band. I woulda, I shoulda, I coulda I didn’t. And I sort of prided myself on never being that person, you know? ’cause I’ve met that, I’ve met those people so many times. You know, they’ve, you know, they’re all nice enough and they, you know, but then they start telling you how they used to be like, you, how they, but then they grew up and got a real job or whatever. And I think, man, like, yeah, that as, as long as you are happy in life, that’s, you be you, man. But for me, I just know these stories or voices in my head of sorts. They, they don’t turn off, man. So I’ve gotta get them out there on paper and, and share it with the world. I think they’re, um, they’re special stories. And to the audience that I have, I’m extremely grateful that people are with me on this journey.

(01:59:53)
So, yeah, I keep pushing myself every day to do it. And, and like you said, I, I find myself, even today, I was dive bombing into a big, big smelly wheelie bin to get recycling out, you know, to, to keep the kitty afloat so that I can, um, finance my artists to, uh, bring my ideas to life, man. And, um, pay for my printing. So, you know, and a lot of people would say to me, oh, why don’t you do Patreon or Kickstarter? And it’s like, well, it’s, I don’t know. It’s not my thing. It’s, um, I have my reasons and that’s not my thing. Yeah. I just, for me, I, I found recycling. Um, it’s just something different. And it’s not me trying to be trendy and, you know, start a new trend or anything like that. It’s just me. Um, I’ve found a platform that I can do something ethical for the environment, um, without being a tree hugging hippie or anything like that. Mm-Hmm. Um, but do something that, that supports people in, um, less fortunate, um, situations than I am, um, overseas. But also, um, uh, you know, it gives, it gives more meaning to what I create. So, you know, I value what I create more, is what I’m saying.

Leigh Chalker (02:01:15):
I think that’s beautifully said, man. Um, I respect totally. Um, I, I would 100%. It does give more. You’re right, it does give more value to your work for you personally, because I can see through how you answered that, everything there, mate, I want to tell you, yesterday I had a total breakdown about my creative processes and why am I doing it? And I’ve been doing this shit for so long, and I feel like we touched on it today. Like, the sacrifices you make, I have lost people. I have loved, I have lost friends, family, people that, you know, gone. And, and I wondered the sa the same thing yesterday, which is strange that we were talking, you know, that you brought that up because there are voices and it’s not madness.

Jesse Dracman (02:02:39):
No,

Leigh Chalker (02:02:40):
It’s not. It’s, it’s, uh, uh, I would say it’s the voices of like, I would say it’s like desire, man. Like you when Yeah. You can’t not do what you meant to do, man. It’s, um, and it’s shit that sometimes there’s collateral, but it’s not intentional. Like, it’s just not, like if, you know, you never mean to hurt someone, man. You know what I mean? But if you’ve got to do something because this is what you need to do, then the only person you are hurting is yourself if you don’t do it. Mm-Hmm. Um, that’s me to the extreme. I’m very extreme when it comes to this stuff, but I’m full of self doubt. I don’t think that, you know, you’re the only one out there, man.

Jesse Dracman (02:03:26):
No, and I know that for a fact. I know I’m, I’ve been

Leigh Chalker (02:03:27):
Low brother too, so it’s like, you know, keep plugging me. That’s

Jesse Dracman (02:03:32):
Why I’m, I’m very, I’m very, I’m very sympathetic with a lot of my peers and a lot of people that I’ve connected with, especially in the comics industry, man, there’s, um, yeah. The, the common denominator we have is just a lot of periods of self-doubt. So that’s where, yeah. People like myself, I, I don’t do it as much of late, but every now and then, I would since pandemic, I always check in on people, just, even just to say, good day, just making sure you’re okay. You know, just that little, that little nudge of that little ray of sunshine to tell people, Hey, look, I feel you. You’re not alone. I’m just making sure you’re okay. Here’s a little ray of sunshine for you. You know? Um, and that sometimes that goes a long way. So, um, and for a lot of people, we’ve forgotten that art of just, you know, basic communication and just not every message has to have some business meaning behind it. You know? It’s, it, you know, I, I could, I could drop the line next week and just say, Hey, man, you know, we could talk about faith no more, or we’ll talk about fucking parliament. You know, like, that’s, that’s how I roll, you know? Yeah. Um, so yeah, it’s,

(02:04:49)
Yeah. It’s a, it’s a, it’s an interesting, um, interesting parallel the comic industry with the music industry, you know? It’s very interesting. So, yeah. Mm-Hmm. But it’s a journey that I’m enjoying, so.

Leigh Chalker (02:05:03):
Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I made, I can see you’re enjoying it. Um, and you’re doing freaking Stone five now, which means it’s pushing on, it gave you, like, you’ve just summed up tonight as well, how important creativity in whatever format is. But in this particular moment, like your writing was for you, because you’ve mentioned your diary that you kept while you maturing, which obviously would’ve been, um, a bit of a linchpin for your sanity during that point. Um, while all that stuff was going on, I’m, I’m assuming through reading between the lines here, that that was probably the point where you went, man, <laugh>, I’m thinking Ms drinking, et cetera, et cetera, is getting too excessive. I’m keeping, you know, that at least would’ve been the thought. Yeah. Where, yeah. But, you know, in there, ’cause it always starts with a thought man, and it start, the thought gets bigger and bigger until something happens where you go, fuck that. That’s it. You know, it happened to me like that that story is yours. Because I think that is one of those things when, when you find sobriety, that moment where you stop, you save that story for yourself and those you love, man, that are close. Absolutely. That’s, I think that’s one of those stories that you only share with people that are something, you know, like, not Absolutely. Um, and I’m, you know, I’m just saying that’s how I feel about my, my,

(02:06:31)
And, um, and you know, you had that diary to get you through, you’ve hit pandemic, you’ve like, you know, you’re going through battles and stuff. I’m going to assume that you started being sober through the pandemic. That was possibly part of the battle as well. Uh, I was,

Jesse Dracman (02:06:51):
Yeah. I was sober a little bit before that, a couple of years before that. Yeah. So, yeah, but don’t, yeah, for sure. Like, there were moments of, um, you know, wanting to revisit an old friend, you know? Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:07:08):
Yeah. But,

Jesse Dracman (02:07:09):
Um, you know, for me, everyone’s got their sobriety story, but for me, I just, it was literally cold Turkey. Um, and it wasn’t anything bad. It was just a moment of clarity where I just realised it was a part of my life that I didn’t need anymore. It served its purpose, and, um, I just knew that I could function just fine without it. So I made that choice, and I’ve stuck to it ever since. So,

Leigh Chalker (02:07:34):
Yeah. Good, good man. Good man. I’m proud of you, mate. Um, thanks,

Jesse Dracman (02:07:37):
Man. I catch up.

Leigh Chalker (02:07:39):
Thank you, man. It’s, um, best decision I’ve ever made. It’s the most important thing I hold onto man, is my sobriety. Yeah. Um, I absolutely, it’s come close, don’t you worry. That’s why, that’s, I’m saying, you know, you have those moments where you’re like, you know, like

Jesse Dracman (02:07:56):
You do, you do.

Leigh Chalker (02:07:57):
You just, but that’s, um, man, I will, yeah. I will hold, um, myself accountable for my sobriety for the rest of my life, man. Um, it

Jesse Dracman (02:08:09):
Absolutely,

Leigh Chalker (02:08:10):
It’s just that important to me. Uh, um, and, and the thing that, the thing that, um, amazes me is when you first start going through, like, and you first start finding yourself beginner, sober life, and it is scary because, you know, like so much, you know, alcohol and, you know, everything is, it’s, it’s out there and people talk about it and that, but when you make that for whatever purpose, it is quite scary. And, um, and then you realise like how good life is, you know, like, and they have these feelings, like, even though some of them are difficult to deal with, you know what I mean? It’s like, what is, yeah. I haven’t felt that for 20 years, you know? So it, like, you know, I’m still working and processing through all that, man, but I’ve be, I like to feel, um, uh, that’s where I’m at with it. Um, uh, I, yeah, that’s where I’m at. But man, and Jesse, I mate, I, I’m like really inspired, um, by you tonight, but, and, um, don’t, oh, thanks. Sending a comment down there that said more power to you for what you said about thanks, man. Creativity in your comic books and stuff like that.

Jesse Dracman (02:09:27):
Appreciate it. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:09:29):
Now, your, um, your kid’s book, let’s talk about that. That’s our last leg to talk about, man. Yeah. How did that come about? Because you’ve gone from, you know, like the fur, you’ve gone from Frankenstein, which was your cathartic novel, turned into a comic book, you’re into the Furies, which were your favourite characters from the Warriors that you wanted to obviously like, broaden their story in your own way up a bit, man. And then you’ve decided I’m going to do a children’s book, and how did that all form?

Jesse Dracman (02:10:06):
Well, I mean, the, the thing is, for this whole creative journey, for me, it’s just all about challenging myself constantly, never being complacent. Um, you know, like I, I, I don’t know. I just, my guess everyone’s creativity is different, you know? But for me, I just had so many ideas. And during Pandemic, I based, I basically created a series of ideas, um, that I’m slowly working through. Um, I’ve got so many ideas, projects that I’ve started, um, of different novels, comic book ideas, and the children’s book idea came about as just a challenge. Um, I just thought to myself, you know, I, I just, I love, I love seeing that smile on people’s faces, and I wanted to extend that to kids. And, um, I love bats. Um, you know, and I, I wanted to write a story that I, I knew, you know, I did a little bit of research before I knew that, um, there was quite a few books about bats out there, a lot of educational books and, and all the rest.

(02:11:16)
But I just wanted something cute and empowering for kids to realise, um, you know, just a way to conquer a potential fear. Mm. So for me, I, I found my artist Nikki, um, who was a very, you know, today she’s a, um, she’s a rising star in the tattoo industry, but at the time, she was a very insecure, very shy, um, very self-doubt, um, talented artist that didn’t believe in her work, you know, told me that she threw away a lot of what she drew. Um, and I just kept at her and said, I believe in you and I, I just see your art bringing my words to life. And through a series of conversations, we, we put together the basis of what would become flyback fly. Um, I basically came to her and said, look, I wanna, I want to create a rhyme that’s like a song that kids can, kids and parents can read together.

(02:12:19)
And I said, with your art, I want you to channel. ’cause we talked a lot about the love of our families. So family is very powerful in the story. And, um, I said to her, I want you to channel the love you have for your husband and your daughter, and bring that into your artwork. So I said, you know, visualise them as much as you can through these bats. So she celebrates, um, her, the love of her family, and namely her daughter in this story, um, which is seen in many of the pages. So, um, for me it was a, it was a massive box to tick, um, to realise that I could, and the, the, the thing that the payoff for me was not the selling the books. I mean, that’s always a bonus, but it was just hearing the stories come back from, um, parents and kids saying how much they love the book.

(02:13:15)
You know, parents sending me photos of their kids asleep with the book in their arms, you know, that, that sort of thing. That’s, um, that’s powerful stuff that, you know, um, and just the joy that I hearing that I brought to these kids and families just, um, means the world to me. So, um, which is, you know, probably weird for a lot of people to hear coming from me, but man, it’s, it’s the truth, you know? And, um, I, I definitely plan to write more kids’ books for sure. ’cause I had, I honestly had so much fun writing that kids’ book. And I, I, I wrote another kid’s book, um, that I put out last year, a short novella called Vixen, which is a, just a real feel good. Um, uh, slightly older kid’s audience, like semi teenager audience, uh, a Christmas story. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

(02:14:07)
So I just wrote like a et kind of story. It’s, it’s very akin to like an et kind of story, you know, like a, a girl in a small town of Alaska befriends the rarest breed of black, uh, of reindeer on the planet, the black reindeer. And they just form this magical bond. And it’s just one of them stories. It’s got, it’s got its highs and it lows, but it’s got the most powerful, magical ending that you don’t see coming. So, you know, um, so that’s what I love about creativity, man. It’s just being able to transport people, um, through imagination, but also emotional, you know? It’s, it’s a, yeah, it’s very powerful and a lot of fun.

Leigh Chalker (02:14:47):
I, um, man, it’s a, you’re firing off just cannonballs here the night, man. God, I hope like people are taking this in, because to me, that is exactly what it is about, mate, is, um, to me, what you are ascribing there. And in my fucking soul, I tell you this truth, what you are describing there and how you are speaking, how you are like emotional and fuck me. I feel it. That is success to me. Thanks,

Jesse Dracman (02:15:27):
Mate.

Leigh Chalker (02:15:27):
People can measure success any way they want, but that is how I measure success, man, is how you feel there. How you can impact lives of people through your creativity. Because man, sometimes I don’t think, you know, you can change the world in one day. No. But you can change one person, man with one thing. That’s it. And if that person like, gets the buzz and they, you know, like, and things move from that. And I, I, you know, that, to me that’s success, Jesse. Um,

Jesse Dracman (02:16:01):
No, thank you. I appreciate it.

Leigh Chalker (02:16:03):
No, that’s cool.

Jesse Dracman (02:16:05):
That’s, um, I mean, that, that’s the thing, that’s another thing I wanna highlight about the conventions is it’s, it is a platform for people to make money. And as I mentioned earlier, there are unfortunately groups of people that do this event, that it’s basically, that’s all the basis of their, of their involvement in the con in the conventions are, is to make money. But for me, I’m at my table and I have a family, which I, I do, I know personal, I have personal relationships with families that today that come to my table just to remind me how much they love, um, my kids’ book. Um, I’ve had school teachers come to me specifically to tell me the impact that my story has made on their, on their kids. Um, you know, so my book has reached, um, a lot of, a lot of young kids, um, with a positive message. And to me, it’s exactly what you just said there, Lee. It’s, that to me is success. You know, that is like, even if I only made a a hundred dollars for the day, like to know that my story puts smiles on, you know, so many kids’ faces, that’s like, yeah, that’s, that’s powerful. And, um, yeah, if I’m wrong, then whatever.

Leigh Chalker (02:17:30):
You’re not wrong, mate. You’re not wrong at all. I 100% agree with you, man. I think that is the ultimate power of creativity, man, is to be able to, um, uh, translate your ideas to someone that, um, you know, it can inspire them and inspire the next generation to, um, you know, ignite something within themselves. And they look to Jesse well, yeah, that book was like endless thing, you know, when I read it, it just stuck in my forever, man. And that may, you know, well, that’s

Jesse Dracman (02:17:57):
What you wanna see. Yeah. That’s what you wanna see. You wanna see the kids that they, not just the kids love the kids book, but you see the kids that come up and go, oh, when’s the next issue of Frankenstein coming out? Or when’s the next issue of furious? You know, like, um, getting that positive validation from fans of the Warriors. ’cause I knew what I was walking into when I wrote that. Oh, yeah. I knew I was walking into Dangerous Waters.

Leigh Chalker (02:18:21):
Yeah, yeah. Because

Jesse Dracman (02:18:22):
I’m, I’m one of those fans too, dude. You know, like, uh, it’s like, how dare you mess with perfection? It’s like my, and sorry to go off topic here, but my, my, my whole thing about doing that was I want everything I’ve created has been some form of love letter to my childhood. Yep. And the Warriors is a big part of that. And to me, I wanted to write a thank you to that film and to that story, and to one of my favourite characters, which was the baseball Furies. And I had this idea for the story for the longest time, so to bring out, to be able to bring it to life in the, the three novels that I wrote that I’m going to repackage as one book, um, hopefully this year, but also have the comic book series. It’s, um, it’s really cool that there’s a small audience building that is following that journey and, uh, open to the ideas of what I’m trying to create, which is this legacy story outside of, you know, outside of the, the world that, uh, Walter Hill and Sour created. So, yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:19:33):
Yeah. I, mate, I think you just do whatever you wanna do. I think you’re in a damn good head space. You’re busy. I think you just, you’re in the, to me, you’re in the right head space for a creative man. If you wanna do those things, you just do whatever makes you happy, mate. Like, that’s really what it’s too, because while you’re creating and you’re getting that reciprocation from other people, and you know, like, um, you know, if you’re getting families come to you at your tables to say like, thank you for the book. I mean, you’re essentially bringing families together. So that’s, I mean, that’s, it’s, it’s a construction of love all around men. Yeah. And that’s what things should be fundamentally based on. Um, I think, um, well,

Jesse Dracman (02:20:13):
Well, yeah, that’s right.

Leigh Chalker (02:20:15):
It’s that, well, people use, you know, sometimes, ’cause I, I rattle on about love a lot, and I’m quite sure that people probably go, ah, here’s our league going on about love again. But, you know, like love to a certain extent in social media has been poisoned because unfortunately, love is now a throwaway thing. It’s just a word to be used, like, I’m sorry, or I didn’t, you know, or a phrase like, I didn’t mean that, you know what I mean? It needs to have more emphasis on it. And love is an integral thing. If there was more love in the world, people would be happy. There’d be more peace. And I dunno why people don’t build off that love comes from building it in yourself, and then you can give, it’s pouring outta you. You can give it to other people, and it all radiates, man.

(02:20:55)
It all comes around, it’s all energy. And when you get feedback, Jesse, like, you know, you’re getting from families and seeing that you are, from the conversation we’ve had tonight, have built things on a foundation of love, remembering back to a period of when you’re a child, and like your homages to them, it’s gotten you through some dark shit, man. You know what I mean? And it’s brought you into some good times and it’s the ebb and flow of everything. And I’m sitting here listening to this story with you, man, because it’s like, there’s so much of it that I’m going, uh, yeah, I get that. Yeah, man. You know, like, um, and I think that’s all, I think that’s all anyone can ask. I’m also, I like the fact that with Chin Wags, I know for a fact myself, Jesse, and one thing I like about tonight, what I do, like, I, I appreciate the creators that have been on and the guests in, in, you know, uh, throughout the Chin wags.

(02:21:53)
Here’s honesty about the fact that people from the outside think it’s all, oh, they just bang out these comic books on weekends. It’s not that hard. <laugh>. You know what I mean? Like, they just bang out, you know, like, I mean, oh mate, don’t we all, but like you said, the sacrifices, you know, like, mate, um, yeah, the time, the effort, the years, the self doubts, the imposter syndrome, like the scr, you know, like, um, right just down there, oh mate, it never stops. But the persistence of creatives to set their mark, hit their goal and go through whatever glass they’ve gotta go through to get there, man, respect to every one of them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> respect to you, Jesse. Um, thank

Jesse Dracman (02:22:49):
You.

Leigh Chalker (02:22:50):
I, uh, man, I certainly, um, I I wish you every success on your journey, dude. Um,

Jesse Dracman (02:22:59):
Oh, thank you, bro. I appreciate it. Back at you. No,

Leigh Chalker (02:23:02):
Yeah, thank you, man. Um, I might, um, yeah, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll talk to you after the show ’cause, uh, um, I might, I’m down that way at the end of the year. I might, uh, have to catch up with you for a coffee.

Jesse Dracman (02:23:16):
Yeah, man. Let’s do it. Let’s do it. That’d be great.

Leigh Chalker (02:23:19):
Say good day. Um, alright, Jesse, my man. Um, now I always like to, um, always like to give you, um, the guest, the final say, um, as we wind down our chinwag and, um, like, you know, if little Jesse walked up to Jesse, the adult standing, you know, at Supernova and wanted one piece of advice why, you know, what you know, or any of those things like, what would little Jesse ask Big Jesse, and what would Big Jesse say back to Little Jesse?

Jesse Dracman (02:24:03):
Um, oh, that’s a really good question. I guess little Jesse would probably ask, you know, uh, how, how, how can I do, how can I do it? Whether it’s music or comics, and Big Jesse would probably reply, just taking a page from Todd McFarlane who gave me this advice. Create, and don’t just create every now and then. Create every single day and write even when you don’t think you’re very good. Just keep writing and enjoy the ride. You know, just have fun. Um, I think those are two powerful words that I’ve um, said to people for the longest time, is have fun no matter what you do. Have fun. ’cause you know, a lot of people have forgotten the, the art of having fun. It’s, you know, a lot of what we’ve talked about tonight is revolved around enjoying and loving what you do. And, uh, and another piece of advice that I got given was, uh, from my tour manager. He always said, you know, every day’s a school day, you know, so if you go through life thinking, you know, everything, um, you should rethink your life choices. So yeah.

Leigh Chalker (02:25:25):
Very good words of advice, mate. Very good words of advice. So, Jesse, last thing, mate. Now if anyone wants to reach out to you and, um, buy some of these books, comic books, um, yeah. Now where can they get you, mate? Like, uh, what’s your socials? Where you at? Like give a shout out to yourself? Yeah,

Jesse Dracman (02:25:44):
Um, you can find me@freakproductions.com. Um, I spelled freak with two E’s instead of EAK, um, because freak, uh, when I looked it up originally, um, it’s means too weird to be a freak, and I just resonated with that. I was like, yep, that’s me. So yeah, go to my website, it’s got links to the socials, to the podcasts that I do everything, um, everything. And, uh, I’m pretty easy to get a hold of.

Leigh Chalker (02:26:10):
Yeah. Beautiful. No, that’s great. Yeah, I do hope everyone, um, goes out and checks out for productions.com and that’s F-R-E-E-K as Jesse said. So go out there and support Jesse, because I think, as you can see this evening, um, Jesse’s got a good spirit. He’s in, he’s, uh, he’s a good creator with, um, you know, the best intentions. And I think that’s, uh, that’s someone that should be supported. So that’s my view. Thank you. Um, Nick, may nice work tonight. Great chat. Thank you for always supporting the show and, uh, everyone else that’s out there. So, um, as, uh, as I wind down tonight’s chinwag again for everyone that is out there watching and will watch past, present and future 2D, 3D or five D or whatever parallel, you know, uh, reality you’re in. Jesse touched on it tonight. I’ll touch on it again. Comex X has a special place, uh, of interest and concern for the mental health of people.

(02:27:22)
We all suffer mental health battles majority anyway amongst the community. I do, I know Shane does. And Jesse’s touched on a few dark moments this evening. Sometimes they can get on top of you. Don’t forget that there are people out there that do love you and you are not a burden on them. Don’t forget people that you have other people out there. If you have not heard from them, touch base with them. Let them know you care. Sometimes that’s all it takes to just save someone’s life. So that’s important. It’s all part of the community. It’s very important just to be there when someone needs you. Um, do it with a full heart, do it with love. Don’t do it with force. Just do it with sympathy and, and and love. Um, all Jesse Jackman, thank you very much for tonight’s show. It’s been an absolutely pleasure, man.

(02:28:19)
I’m going to keep in touch with you because I’m most interested. See where you go buddy. Um, and that sounds good. Yeah, tonight’s been excellent. Do hang around for after the show and we’ll just have a little touch Yeah. Base at the end and, and finish up, um, everyone out there. Now, next week, believe it or not, is a special episode. Next week is the 50th episode of Chinwag, so, wow. Yeah, yeah, a bit of a spin out that, um, we decided that next week was going to be the 50th because there’s episodes, there’s been specials, there’s been this, there’s been that. And I think possibly not next week, the week after might’ve actually been the 50th, but there’s a guest that I, you know, wanted to put on that date. So I just had this next week free. So, you know, like let’s do a <inaudible> Comics and just swap numbers, you know, like a big karate <laugh>, something wax off and next week’s it, so that’s just how it is. Um, I’m going to hold back on telling you what next week’s show is all about. Um, uh, should be pretty interesting. Um, so, you know, we’ll just, uh, keep you guessing ’cause you know, like a little bit of mystery never goes astray. Um, do look after yourselves and, uh, look, chinwag is and will always, always be made with love. And, uh, community is unity. And, uh, see you all next week. Thank you for watching. Thank you for your support. Take care.

Voice Over (02:29:44):
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