Hayden Fryer

Voice Over (00:03):
This show is sponsored by the Comics Shop. Welcome to Tuesday Chinwag with your host, Lee Chalker, writer, artist, and creator of the comic series Battle for Basel.

Leigh Chalker (00:26):
Good day. Welcome to another episode of Tuesday Chinwag. Now the show is sponsored by the Comex Shop, and don’t forget to go and check out some Australian comic books in there. You can check out that which releases on Monday as well. So with that, you’ll get four, three PDFs. So dig in and check out the whole Battle for Bustle series. Now, don’t forget to like and subscribe com x. That’s the most important thing you can do that helps spread the algorithm, gets it out to more people, shares the love grows the tree that makes the community bigger, and that’s good for comics and it’s good for everyone that likes comics. So everyone that hasn’t seen the show before, basically chinwag is who, what, where, when, why, and how. It’s a fluid show. We talk about many things, some things, comics, some things like everything in between. Whatever tickles our fancy for the evening. Comments are welcome. So please feel free, send us some comments and some questions. And tonight’s guest is a man that I’ve wanted to talk to for a long time because I’ve been aware of him for a long time. And if you haven’t been aware of him, you are about to be because he’s keen. He’s ready. And look how happy he’s there. We like happy people. That’s away, mate. So everyone introducing Mr. Hayden Friar, how are you?

Hayden Fryer (01:53):
Good, how are you?

Leigh Chalker (01:55):
Yeah, I’m all right, mate. Look, the circus didn’t roll into town today, but I can’t complain about the day. It was pretty good. I’m still here. I’m with you. I’m grateful things are going. All right, man.

Hayden Fryer (02:06):
So you mentioned last day about ending up in solitary.

Leigh Chalker (02:10):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I saved my chat for you today because I was just telling for everyone out there. I was just telling Hayden earlier that I was at work today, and sometimes work can get a little bit, provide you with an itch you can’t scratch. So I decided to stay within myself and not talk to too many people today. So I’ve got the motor running, man, ready for you. And so we can test the motor because it’s humming, it’s Perrin. I’m going to get into the big existential question. Hayden, are you ready, man? Are you ready to rock and roll? Who?

Hayden Fryer (02:56):
Pickles.

Leigh Chalker (03:01):
Oh, right, okay. Hey,

Hayden Fryer (03:04):
You set me up for it.

Leigh Chalker (03:05):
Yeah, yeah, I did. I did. I thought you were kidding, but you threw it out there. But look,

Hayden Fryer (03:10):
I threw it out there. Had to open on it.

Leigh Chalker (03:12):
Yeah, you did. And look, I commend you on that, man, because it’s like no one’s done that yet. And after

Hayden Fryer (03:19):
How many episodes? No one’s taken that risk. No one’s just thrown

Leigh Chalker (03:23):
Straight out there. Odd. Yeah, 50 odd. No one’s done that to me yet. So let me

Hayden Fryer (03:28):
Just

Leigh Chalker (03:30):
See if I can come back at you now that you’ve given me one that I haven’t had. Alright, so Hayden Fryer, that’s who you are at the moment, and good evening for

Hayden Fryer (03:48):
My passport. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (03:50):
Yeah, on your passport, your driver’s licence, and everywhere else it’s of importance in today’s society, all the paperwork, et cetera.

Hayden Fryer (03:57):
No, it’s really just a pen name. My name’s John.

Leigh Chalker (04:00):
Oh really? John? Hey, ER and Chalker,

Hayden Fryer (04:04):
John Pickles.

Leigh Chalker (04:06):
Oh, well see, I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that you are going for the Pickles record here tonight, mate. And nah,

Hayden Fryer (04:17):
How many times would you have to say Pickles? Really hit that Pickles record? Is anyone actually kicking track How many times on saying pickles and have conversation about pickles? I really just go the whole railroad of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (04:26):
I know. Look, I like pickles as much as the next man, but I think you might. I think you might’ve cracked the Pickles Barometer making. He

Hayden Fryer (04:37):
Was pretty great on hamburgers. You can’t have a hamburger without a pickle.

Leigh Chalker (04:42):
No, you can’t. You can’t.

Hayden Fryer (04:44):
They really do finish off a hamburger.

Leigh Chalker (04:46):
Yeah. Yeah, they do. They do. Look, as long as I’m a vegetarian, so as long as there’s no meat products on a hamburger, that’s okay, mate. Everything’s pretty much plant-based for me these days in my old age.

Hayden Fryer (04:59):
So it’s just pretty much a pickle burger.

Leigh Chalker (05:01):
I could be a pickle burger mate. And I’ve got a sneaking suspicion Hayden that you’re trying to create a pickle burger here, mate, so nah, nah, that’s good, man. I like it. No, I

Hayden Fryer (05:14):
Should have got my own pickles though.

Leigh Chalker (05:15):
Yeah, you should have. You’ve got time mate to go out and get a jar of pickles for the start of the show. And while I’ve been getting pickled, thank you to all the comments and everyone’s jumping in and driving in with the pickle, so I would definitely,

Hayden Fryer (05:39):
It’s Pickle Revolution.

Leigh Chalker (05:40):
Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. So free the pickles.

Hayden Fryer (05:43):
Free the pickles.

Leigh Chalker (05:45):
Oh look, come on. Anyone else out there want to add to the pickles? Just the jar while we’re going because it’s just crack

Hayden Fryer (05:56):
That jar of pickles right open

Leigh Chalker (05:58):
Because now we’ve got

Hayden Fryer (06:00):
Across the counter pickles everywhere.

Leigh Chalker (06:04):
I should never have told you that, Hayden, I knew from the second I spoke to you pre show that you were going to mention. So we’re about

Hayden Fryer (06:10):
Six and a half pickles into the stream. How many more pickles can I get into this before? 10 minutes?

Leigh Chalker (06:16):
Yeah, man. Six and a half. Is that all? It seems lot more.

Hayden Fryer (06:22):
That was the time. That was the time. I wasn’t counting pickles. I track of pickles back four pickles back.

Leigh Chalker (06:28):
Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking that we already had a pallet of pickles roll in by now, man,

Hayden Fryer (06:36):
It’s a shipping container of pickles at this point. There’s just pickles everywhere. You could swim in the damn pickles. What’s the name of the duck? Scrooge Mc Duck.

Leigh Chalker (06:45):
There’s vault of pickles. You’re going to die like a bank vault full of pickles, man.

Hayden Fryer (06:49):
It’s going to be ripe off about a week. But that’s a lot of pickles is diving through. You can probably drown

Leigh Chalker (06:55):
In it actually. Yeah, that’s a lot of burgers too, man. I

Hayden Fryer (06:58):
Mean, just what’s pickles? Cucumbers? Cucumbers and vinegar.

Leigh Chalker (07:02):
I don’t know sometimes about food. I think Hayden, that sometimes you’re better off maybe not knowing where some things come from, aren’t you? And just praying that it’s good for you and hoping So a pickle bank. There you go. We could have that absence. Yes, I think so. A pickle bank. There you go, Hayden. Or should I call you John now? You know what I mean? Or Mr. Pickles or It’s Mr. Pickles.

Hayden Fryer (07:30):
Mr. Pickles from now.

Leigh Chalker (07:32):
Alright, well guess what?

Hayden Fryer (07:33):
That’ll probably stick.

Leigh Chalker (07:35):
Yeah, I think we’re both stuck with pickles now. Yeah, I don’t think there’s any getting out of that pool, man. And I think we’re locked in the bank. I think the shipping container has, they’re probably calling in a second one. The first one might’ve been a 20 footer. This one’s a 40 footer. They’ve worked out how to flat pack the pickles now and we might spend the rest of the show like unpacking pickles. Now,

Hayden Fryer (08:03):
If you dehydrate a pickle, what would you have?

Leigh Chalker (08:09):
I am not sure, mate. I’m not sure.

Hayden Fryer (08:11):
You have dehydrated bananas and stuff like that and it’s banana chips. Would you be able to dehydrate a pickle?

Leigh Chalker (08:17):
I don’t see, it’s taking

Hayden Fryer (08:18):
Pickles and vinegar, right?

Leigh Chalker (08:20):
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re right. See, I don’t know, but I’m sure there’s someone out there that has tried.

Hayden Fryer (08:28):
This is an experiment we need to get. Is anyone following us got one of those air fryers? They can create a pickle chip for us and find out?

Leigh Chalker (08:35):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, if there’s someone out there willing and game enough to create a pickle chip out there in the audience tonight, we’ll be here for a while. So I think

Hayden Fryer (08:46):
We’re asking the real questions, the hard questions. We have Australian comics, dedicated Australian comics, and we’re asking about pickle chips.

Leigh Chalker (08:56):
Yeah, yeah. See this is pickle air fryer. See? There you go. There

Hayden Fryer (09:01):
We go. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (09:02):
Go fryer. There you go. Man.

Hayden Fryer (09:06):
That took them a while to get there.

Leigh Chalker (09:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hayden Fryer (09:08):
You set these guys up for these things and look at how long it takes them. What do we, nine minutes in? Is anyone actually keeping track of the amount of songs that’ve said pickles so far?

Leigh Chalker (09:16):
I don’t know if someone wants to go back and watch the show or put it in the comments about how many times we’ve said pickles and the audience has said pickles. I don’t think I’m going to have to have Alex major back on again sooner rather than later because he previously held the record of pickles for the show and he’s going to obviously take this as a challenge. You know what I mean?

Hayden Fryer (09:36):
Oh, I bet he will. He won’t be able to help himself. He’ll probably just be strong pickles all around the place.

Leigh Chalker (09:43):
I think you’ll blow up a pickle if you tried to air fry says red.

Hayden Fryer (09:48):
See, now that sounds like a challenge.

Leigh Chalker (09:51):
That does sound like a challenge. Look, if anyone out there has an exploding pickle in an air fryer, let us know. If anyone’s had a bad pickle experiment or a pickle experience or anything about pickles that just comes to mind, let us know. It’s part of the theme of the show now, just to let everyone know

Hayden Fryer (10:12):
You doing call in things with this chinwag, have a call listener, can you have a call in listener tell us their pickle story about how they pop up a pickle on the air fryer after listening to

Leigh Chalker (10:21):
Us. They can send their comments in and I’ll be happy to read them and we can both interact and stuff. So yeah, people are always, I want

Hayden Fryer (10:27):
Photos. I want proof of this pickle chip exploding. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (10:31):
Well, there’s a challenge for the audience tonight if anyone’s willing to accept it, but do you know how the Pickles idea came up? Is that I had a cat and her name was pickles and I loved pickles and I she was a great friend of mine and yeah, when I wanted her to be part of Chinwag, and that seemed like the appropriate thing is to use pickles, memory

Hayden Fryer (11:02):
Of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (11:03):
No, I haven’t marinated her. No,

Hayden Fryer (11:07):
No. In memory.

Leigh Chalker (11:10):
Oh yes, yes. I thought you marinated.

Hayden Fryer (11:13):
Is that what your mind,

Leigh Chalker (11:16):
My cat inside?

Hayden Fryer (11:17):
I’m like, keep us forever nicely marinated. Yeah.

Leigh Chalker (11:22):
Yes, yes, Jeffrey, we probably do need a new safe word, but it’s not happening, Jeffrey. It’s just that Hayden is a very frisky fellow and cheeky, and I like that man. He’s full of life. But Hayden, on a serious note, no more pickles and less necessary. Who are you for the people out there

Hayden Fryer (11:43):
Trying not to say pickles?

Leigh Chalker (11:47):
Go on man.

Hayden Fryer (11:51):
How do you answer? Who really? Do you get existential? Do you? You’ve read my bio, right? I haven’t even read my bio. I keep changing my bio.

Leigh Chalker (12:00):
Apparently made comics. It’s knew how you answer that mate, entirely up to you.

Hayden Fryer (12:06):
How I just did.

Leigh Chalker (12:09):
Okay, well everyone out there, if Hayden, if,

Hayden Fryer (12:13):
How would you answer? Sorry, how would you answer who

Leigh Chalker (12:18):
I answered?

Hayden Fryer (12:19):
It’s the whole routine of Vin Costello or something.

Leigh Chalker (12:22):
I answered it on the 50th. You could, but I answered it on the 50th episode. So Ive answered my who? So now it’s up to you to answer who,

Hayden Fryer (12:36):
How would I answer? Where would I start with a question? Like who?

Leigh Chalker (12:41):
Okay, well why don’t we start with,

Hayden Fryer (12:43):
Well set me off here. Where do I begin? Because obviously who, where, how was it six questions or something that Shane was saying early on?

Leigh Chalker (12:54):
Yeah, yeah.

Hayden Fryer (12:56):
How do you define who?

Leigh Chalker (12:59):
Well, how would you define who? Hayden. How would you define

Hayden Fryer (13:02):
Who?

Leigh Chalker (13:03):
Me? There

Hayden Fryer (13:03):
You go. Obviously that’s who I’m here right now talking. Perfect,

Leigh Chalker (13:07):
Perfect dancer. Love it. Now we know that you are not John, but you are. In fact Hayden.

Hayden Fryer (13:17):
Hayden is up in this way at the moment, so I’ve got to kind of stick with that one at the moment. So

Leigh Chalker (13:21):
Yeah, yeah, I know how you feel and man, sometimes

Hayden Fryer (13:24):
Have you said pickles, I just run with pickles as the name and you’d be like, oh, I’m a pickle.

Leigh Chalker (13:29):
So you want to be a cat?

Hayden Fryer (13:32):
No, just a pickle.

Leigh Chalker (13:33):
Just a pickle for the sake. So now who is

Hayden Fryer (13:36):
We’re direction. I’m just going to run with it.

Leigh Chalker (13:39):
Hayden, we dunno whether you are John or whether you’re a pickle or whether you’re a cat or what’s going on. This is the most unusual who that I’ve contended with so far. You’ve got me on the edge of my seat.

Hayden Fryer (13:54):
We’re going to make everything nice and serious for a second then. But you know what? Let’s just keep going. Let, let’s just go down that rabbit hole. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (14:01):
Yeah. Alright. Alright.

Hayden Fryer (14:04):
Who are you

Leigh Chalker (14:04):
Really? Who am I? Well, I’m a,

Hayden Fryer (14:09):
I know.

Leigh Chalker (14:11):
Yeah, no, well, okay. I’m a big old skin and bone mate, full of soul, and I’m here having a good time. So it’s how I would look at myself. All is one. One is all. And you’ve got to try and smile and you’ve got to have a good time. Experiences happen to you, some good, some bad. You don’t control these things. You just go with the flow and try and have a positive intent about everything that happens to you, good or bad. And just learn from the experience. Much like I’m learning tonight, Hayden, about not telling anyone that the safety word is pickles and challenges challenging. Now it’s major. So

Hayden Fryer (14:55):
Just keep in mind, you’ve got to keep that safe word in place. Otherwise things can get really out of control real quick. Like,

Leigh Chalker (15:02):
Oh man, don’t they? What it’s like.

Hayden Fryer (15:05):
Yeah. Alex is dangerous that way.

Leigh Chalker (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, he is. I can’t wait to hear him when I talk to him next about the challenge you’ve thrown down. Look, I know a little bit about your Hayden. I know that you’ve done a lot of comics in your day and actually what? Oh, here. If we change the safe word, Hayden will no longer be interested in pickles and then our pickle economy will collapse. I absolutely agree. Shante. Let’s

Hayden Fryer (15:36):
Stockpile all these pickles. It’s a speculative market. It’s like the nineties all over again, man.

Leigh Chalker (15:43):
Yeah, yeah. I wonder if you could add,

Hayden Fryer (15:46):
I’ve got shrimp wrap. Shrimp wrap, shrink wrap, trickle here.

Leigh Chalker (15:51):
Something can put

Hayden Fryer (15:52):
My kids through college.

Leigh Chalker (15:54):
There you go. What do they have for lunch every day? That’d be the next thing. Pickles. Alright, so Hayden, let’s go back to a little,

Hayden Fryer (16:06):
Actually it’s a copy of X Man wine from 92, whatever it is. That’s all they have to eat.

Leigh Chalker (16:11):
Oh yeah. There’s

Hayden Fryer (16:12):
That many copies floating around. You just eat that instead of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (16:15):
Well, you could hang onto the pickles, hold onto them and just eat your comics.

Hayden Fryer (16:21):
Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (16:22):
There you go. Put some pickles

Hayden Fryer (16:23):
On comics.

Leigh Chalker (16:24):
Pickle. Oh, pickles on comics. You have toast.

Hayden Fryer (16:26):
It’s like lettuce, right?

Leigh Chalker (16:27):
Comics and pickles. There’s lots of things. And for anyone else come in this conversation

Hayden Fryer (16:32):
With paper, the trees. Trees are what we eat. No, it’s leaves.

Leigh Chalker (16:37):
Yeah, I like that. I like that. There was a time Hayden where I thought I was the only unusual person in the world and that time has now ended. I found you. And I feel much better about myself not being like this lonely mountain mate. So it’s like there’s me and there’s you. So we can talk about pickles all day. I think we’ve established that. That’s a record. So mate, let’s take us back to Little Hayden and where you grew up, where you started, where your first comics were, what got you into it? Hit me.

Hayden Fryer (17:16):
It was just a little pickle at the time. Okay, fine. Keep it serious. Back before the pickle collapse. Back in the old days, back when pickles were everywhere. So many pickles. Oh man. Okay. Alright,

Leigh Chalker (17:37):
We’ll

Hayden Fryer (17:37):
We’ll keep it serious for a bit. I feel like I definitely need a prop here. Like a pickle. Just wave the pickle around. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (17:46):
Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Hayden Fryer (17:48):
So I started comics back in 2000 and something. One two, what year is it? 24.

Leigh Chalker (17:59):
2024, yeah.

Hayden Fryer (18:01):
Yeah. Okay. So the first issue of Billy came out in 2002. I think from memory

Leigh Chalker (18:06):
And for people that dunno at home, that was Billy The

Hayden Fryer (18:16):
Show.

Leigh Chalker (18:17):
Show. Yeah. Come on now.

Hayden Fryer (18:21):
Billy Demon Slayer.

Leigh Chalker (18:23):
Billy Demon Slayer.

Hayden Fryer (18:25):
No, in the title. There’s never been a that in the title. Before that though, I had a short story in, it was a teaser for Escape, which is a anthology of Australian creators at the time, I think it was organised through the Comics Australia forums at by Aaron Burges. I think from Memory that came out in 2001, but I wasn’t in the final book. So I’m in the teaser, which is probably my first printed thing. And then, yeah, I got dropped from the book, but the art was pretty terrible, so I don’t hold it against Aaron.

Leigh Chalker (19:02):
And that was like the first time. How old were you at that stage, man?

Hayden Fryer (19:09):
18. Somewhere like that.

Leigh Chalker (19:11):
Yeah. Yeah. You’ve been drawing a while. Were you one of those dudes or creators that was drawing from a young age? Or did you start Some people

Hayden Fryer (19:20):
I never picked up a pencil before in my life. I just threw up on the page.

Leigh Chalker (19:24):
Yeah, right. That’s handy. And what, just fiddled around with it and made beautiful.

Hayden Fryer (19:29):
Yeah, just push some splurges here and there and make a couple of life smiley faces. And that’s how it works, right?

Leigh Chalker (19:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. It’s your story. You control the narrative. Dude, I’m just here, man. I’m listening.

Hayden Fryer (19:45):
Anyway, once I threw up all those pickles and I sort of positioned ’em into grids, suddenly had a comic, it was amazing.

Leigh Chalker (19:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah, I

Hayden Fryer (19:55):
Was drawing,

Leigh Chalker (19:58):
Well that would

Hayden Fryer (19:59):
Actually, I’ve got illustrations from 93, which had been about 10 at the time, I think, or 92. And I know I was drawing stuff before then as a kid. But yeah, I didn’t really take it seriously at all still. But yeah, it’s the old age, old story you draw from a kid and just keep drawing.

Leigh Chalker (20:20):
Yeah. So with the Aussie Forum comic escape that you were just talking about and your final story didn’t get taken, put into the comic.

Hayden Fryer (20:35):
The art was terrible and I didn’t revise it in time and I don’t feel bad about it. It would’ve brought down the quality of the book. So technically my first published things in the Tease Open on the final book, and I think the final book was a, I think it came out a couple of years later. Anyway. And there is a nice thank you in the front of it.

Leigh Chalker (20:56):
Oh, that’s good. That’s very nice. At least like they acknowledged. Yes.

Hayden Fryer (21:01):
But officially, did you

Leigh Chalker (21:02):
Learn from that? What did you learn from that? Because it obviously didn’t stop. Your

Hayden Fryer (21:06):
Australian comics are ruthless, man. Absolutely ruthless. The whole scene is just ruthless. Yeah, totally ruthless.

Leigh Chalker (21:14):
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s

Hayden Fryer (21:17):
Just knives out everywhere.

Leigh Chalker (21:18):
Oh mate. Unbelievable. That’s why I live up in far north Queensland, mate, so I can stay away from you big city creators, you know what I mean? I’m mildly safe up here. Having said that, I do have people come to my house sometimes to buy comic books, which is odd, but enjoyable. They always bring plenty of

Hayden Fryer (21:40):
Us and just randomly turn up and a Sunday night at 4:00 AM it’s like here for a comic.

Leigh Chalker (21:45):
Yeah, no, I’ve never had anyone turn up at 4:00 AM haven’t had that. I’ve had the local, you’re

Hayden Fryer (21:52):
Probably missing out that 4:00 AM comic trade is where it’s at.

Leigh Chalker (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, right. Maybe that’s what I should be doing, mate. Business open between 3:00 AM and 6:00 AM I’m not sure that it’d probably bring me the clientele that I was looking at Hayden or wishing for. They might be a little bit of seedy nature and

Hayden Fryer (22:13):
That clientele is pretty dedicated. There’s a subculture of people who just love that stuff. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (22:20):
Yeah, yeah. This is true. This is true. My neighborhood’s a bit tricky though, mate, so it’s not like a shining light of the local area. So I’m trying to keep my head down mate. Like bad enough at noon when I’m not wearing a hat, half of the people in the street have got to put sunglasses on and I get a dance, third degree sunburn. So I’ve got to try and keep a low profile. We’ve discovered that you weren’t accepted into Escape. Now you’ve got, I’ll be nice with you now. So Billy Demons lab, that’s my first memory of basically your stuff, man, because

Hayden Fryer (23:02):
That’s a old memory.

Leigh Chalker (23:05):
Yeah, yeah. Well, I’ve been around, man, I’ve been collecting Australian comics for a long time and it’s one of the, I’ve collected a lot of comics obviously in my day. But yeah, I was always very interested in Australian comics and just over time, just naturally picked up steam with it. And Billy, I used to see quite a lot. Oh man. Yeah, I did. It’s really in my mind, ingrained that you were out and about and with this crazy demon slayer called Billy and was that, yeah, yeah. No, it was good. I liked it. What

Hayden Fryer (23:51):
Was it about?

Leigh Chalker (23:53):
I had some dude called Billy and he was demon slayer. I’m old man, I’ve been through drugs and alcohol. Come on now. You’re lucky. I remember your name, John. So just settle down. It’s like that’s what the show’s for Hayden to get. Bring me back, man. I’m barely

Hayden Fryer (24:09):
See the other side of Lee here now

Leigh Chalker (24:12):
See, now we’ve got to who this is who I am, a shell of myself. But anyway, and I rely on you, John, to help me to drag me back into this reality that we have. So hit me up with Billy. What was the idea? Where did it all gestate from? What was the story there? Did you have some angst there as a young fell, you wanted to be like the dude from Living Dead or whatever, evil, dead with the chainsaws and stuff like that. Chopping people up. What was the creative process meant?

Hayden Fryer (24:44):
It was half a lifetime ago

Leigh Chalker (24:46):
Now. Come on.

Hayden Fryer (24:48):
Come

Leigh Chalker (24:48):
On mate. What

Hayden Fryer (24:59):
Process? Process is she just appears.

Leigh Chalker (25:02):
It just appears. Alright, so there we go. I can start.

Hayden Fryer (25:05):
I hire a bunch of people just to do some work for me and just stick my name to it.

Leigh Chalker (25:09):
Okay. Alright. So anyone out?

Hayden Fryer (25:11):
Just a group name. It’s a whole bunch of people. Alright,

Leigh Chalker (25:14):
So really is John. Okay. Okay. The haystack is forming. So

Hayden Fryer (25:25):
Obviously I’m a big fan of Evil Dead and you’ve got one chainsaw, two chainsaws, and Voila.

Leigh Chalker (25:31):
Yeah. Yeah. And what you

Hayden Fryer (25:35):
Meant more than that? That was all I needed to get started. No,

Leigh Chalker (25:38):
That’s cool. I like that. So that was obviously something that motivated you when you’re a young fella and you had your opportunity and you went with Billy and you just wanted to homage and do some cool stuff and draw and chopping things up.

Hayden Fryer (25:54):
I wasn’t actually meant to draw it originally. So there was never artist start biz. He was doing some work in the late nineties called Street Knowledge and Smooth, I think it was railroad or changed into, originally he was on board to be the arse of the story, and I was going to write, do the script, and he was going to draw it and then he ended up bailing out and I up joining instead. And that’s where it all damn well started. So you can blame him.

Leigh Chalker (26:19):
Yeah, yeah. No, it’s good. We will blame him, but we’ll give him hugs because you’re still going mate, and you’re kicking butt. So that’s the main thing. And here on Chinwag, and we’re slowly, slowly pushing through. 24

Hayden Fryer (26:32):
Years later, I’m here talking about pickles on a Tuesday night. Just live the life.

Leigh Chalker (26:39):
Hey mate, don’t you love reality? And who would’ve thought you ever made a wish when you were younger and thought I’d like to be on a show called Chinwag Talk and Pickles with some dude. You know what I mean? And talk in serious comics. You didn’t did you? But see wishes. It’s just come true, mate.

Hayden Fryer (27:00):
I just peaked right here.

Leigh Chalker (27:02):
I know. And the best part is Hayden, you’re on camera while you’re peaking, mate, so you’ll never be able to erase it mate.

Hayden Fryer (27:12):
Never be on camera while I’m tripping.

Leigh Chalker (27:17):
Okay. That might be a Pickles moment, but anyway, I’m willing to have a go at that. So let’s plough on through.

Hayden Fryer (27:24):
No, no. There’s actually footage of me tripping over.

Leigh Chalker (27:26):
Oh, okay, good. I’m glad. Goodness gracious me. I’m glad.

Hayden Fryer (27:31):
Just go that direction. Yeah, why not? No, I literally, I’m on film just hitting the ground and just straight over.

Leigh Chalker (27:37):
Oh dude, there’s footage of me. Yeah, all over the shop, but we won’t get into that.

Hayden Fryer (27:47):
Really?

Leigh Chalker (27:48):
Yes, there is. Yeah, it’s bloody. We would have

Hayden Fryer (27:52):
To Google for this again.

Leigh Chalker (27:53):
No, good evening, Dave Dyke. No, you can’t find any of it on Google. So I’m going to call that

Hayden Fryer (28:02):
Always looking.

Leigh Chalker (28:03):
Yeah, yeah. You’ve got the other monitor over there. Don’t worry about this. Have a look at my Pickles moments out there. So Billy’s come, how many issues did you get through with Billy? Because it was going for a while.

Hayden Fryer (28:17):
It was five issues in the first series and then there’s seven in the second. I think from memory, there’s also, it was like a four page intro on the first one in the trade, and then there’s, I think there’s a prequel story of 12 pages or something in the second series. And then there’s obviously a couple of crossovers as well. So

Leigh Chalker (28:38):
Wows, who’d you cross over with

Hayden Fryer (28:40):
Originally with? So it was Rachel McLaughlin’s Red, so it’s Billy versus Red, which came out in like I nine maybe. And then there’s the os. Yeah, there’s the Osl series and then there’s the Hunt featuring. Wow. You haven’t read the Hunt, have you?

Leigh Chalker (29:09):
No, I haven’t read the Hunt, but I’m waiting with bated breath, man. I

Hayden Fryer (29:12):
Haven’t read the Hunt. No, I haven’t. You’re a fan of Australian comics and you haven’t read the Hunt?

Leigh Chalker (29:17):
No. Well look man, there’s only one

Hayden Fryer (29:19):
Of, oh, it’s a great Australian crossover ever.

Leigh Chalker (29:22):
Excellent. I’ll take your word for it. I’ll take your word. Well sell it to the world, man. I

Hayden Fryer (29:28):
Can’t, it’s our stock.

Leigh Chalker (29:33):
Cheeky man.

Hayden Fryer (29:34):
There might be a couple of copies around the aftermarket. It probably just went up in value.

Leigh Chalker (29:39):
Yeah, no, that’s cool.

Hayden Fryer (29:41):
It’s the all out brawl between Billy and Kroo featuring Madison from rock salt and a special guest appearance from Trevor of greener pastures, Ryan Wilton as well. And he absolutely makes fucking ass with the arts.

Leigh Chalker (30:00):
Yeah. Nice, nice. And how’d that go? That went well.

Hayden Fryer (30:04):
Yeah, 10 years in the making.

Leigh Chalker (30:07):
10 years, amen. Like Rome,

Hayden Fryer (30:09):
I think probably the only unofficial Kroo story out there that’s not officially official but is official. It’s a real questionable spot in the scene, I believe.

Leigh Chalker (30:20):
Alright, okay. I wonder if somewhere around the traps, someone out there in the audience would be able to let us know if they have a copy of the hunt out there and see what’s happening. But if not, I’m glad we should look for it. Where do you think they’d find it? In comic shop secondhand or on eBay? Possibly. You know what I mean? Sometimes

Hayden Fryer (30:46):
Actually I’m pretty sure it’s up online like Google Drive. So if you go to my site, I’m pretty sure there’s a link in the billing section.

Leigh Chalker (30:52):
Yeah, yeah. All

Hayden Fryer (30:53):
You can find it digitally, you can find it. It’s not impossible to find hard physical copies. Yeah, that’s a little bit tricky. I don’t know where they’re all now I’ve only got a couple of copies more for myself. Actually, Ryan’s probably sitting on a few, so if you hit him up he might be able to ship you one, but

Leigh Chalker (31:09):
Yeah. Okay, well everyone out there just go and bombard poor Ryan, just with random messages if you want the hunt. So why not? Let’s have some fun.

Hayden Fryer (31:18):
Yeah, if you need to fight your killer a recollection, you need the hunt.

Leigh Chalker (31:22):
There you go. Alright. Said by Hayden. I do like having fun, Hayden, this is good tonight. It’s got some nice high energy and stuff, man. And sometimes Chin Waxs can get a little bit serious, you know what I mean? But I like coming in with no expectations as to what the show is going to be about and tonight’s good, man. So it’s fun. And that’s the main thing because that fun man. What’s the point of it all? Hey, is that

Hayden Fryer (31:46):
Fun? You’re just a pickle.

Leigh Chalker (31:47):
That’s exactly right, mate. And who wants to be a pickle with no fun? Exactly. Yeah, you could end up one of those Air fry ones. Hey, all exploded in the excluding

Hayden Fryer (31:58):
Everywhere.

Leigh Chalker (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, you keep going, you keep with Pickles, mate. And I’ll add up to Billy. So just fill out, we’ll meet up.

Hayden Fryer (32:09):
How do I quit this thing again? Oh, I think my internet just dropped out.

Leigh Chalker (32:16):
Oh yeah, that’s all right. I’ll take the show over for a while, mate. You know what I mean? So anyway, we’ve got a comment here from ENC Thomas, and I apologise to everyone who’s comments that I have missed. I’ve been enthralled with Hayden, he’s very cheeky, as you can tell. Hayden, how did you make the jump from Billy Demon Slayer and what came next?

Hayden Fryer (32:35):
What did come next? I think it was trash. I think the next thing was nothing serious, which is absolute trash, which I feel like I need someone else here to bounce off on this stuff. So nothing serious was a collection of 24 hour challenges from oh five to 10 or something. So you know what the 24 challenge was?

Leigh Chalker (33:01):
I do know what the 24 hour Challenge is. Yes.

Hayden Fryer (33:04):
So a friend of mine, a guy and myself teamed up for a few years in a row and got very, very, very caffeinated and then did a stream of conscious series of stories with us as the leads and just, it was absolute crap, absolutely crap. But it’s also one of those things where I could hand someone a copy of the trade and tell ’em, look, if you don’t laugh, don’t buy it. They’d flick through and be chuckling after a few pages. So it’s absolutely trash, but it was fun and sort of no holds barred. There’s a lot of random crap in there.

Leigh Chalker (33:45):
Yeah, yeah. But you’ve got to have fun, man. That’s what we were just talking about. Even in this, that’s what comics and creativity is about too. If you take a lot of the fun away, there’s not much point being angry or miserable about things, man. So the 24 F for anyone else that does,

Hayden Fryer (34:03):
Sorry. Actually no, there was no one, there was a full moon, completely forget about that. So it was a short one off story of a couple dealing with a werewolf in the Cambrian Mountains. So internally I’ve got a habit of swinging between styles and approaches. So I think Full Moon, I’m pretty sure it was between Billy season one and two, I think nothing serious might’ve fallen in there as well. So from that I think it was probably a bunch of short stories. And then probably Darkest Night at that point. I think

Leigh Chalker (34:38):
You’re pretty prolific at this point. Now we’re getting into the crux of it. Thanks. The 24 Hour Challenge makes sense. Ian c Thomas, thank you for your comments, mate.

Hayden Fryer (34:49):
Also, Ian is fantastic and thank you Ian for everything you’ve done over the years. Every single trade I’ve put out, I think bar one or two, Ian’s done fantastic introductions in all of them. And yeah, I can never thank him enough and his music, I’m going to totally fuck up the name of the album, but if you look up Busker’s Dog on Bandcamp, here’s a plug. The music’s fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. So it’s Busker’s Dog on Bandcamp.

Leigh Chalker (35:20):
Okay. All right, everyone go check out Ian Ian’s album. There’s on Bandcamp. There you go. It’s Ian. If you want to chuck a comment up with it there mate, we can put it up across the bottom in case people want to check that out. Always happy to plug Creativity, man. So for anyone out there that doesn’t know, the 24 Hour Comic Challenge is basically you create a comic book in 24 hours and anyone can try. Anyone can do it, as far as I know at different times. Is there a specific date for it or is it one of those things you just do? I can’t remember. I’ve never done one. I,

Hayden Fryer (36:00):
Yeah, I dunno if it’s still running. There was an official date overseas where everyone was doing around September or something, I think, something like that. But Australia we’re doing it over the Queen’s birthday long weekend and it was running pretty consistently through the Pulp Faction forums, rest their soul. I couldn’t think of the years, but I think it was brought back a couple of years after the fact. I can’t even think of who was running at the time now. So it’s been a while since it’s been run locally at least.

Leigh Chalker (36:30):
But

Hayden Fryer (36:30):
Yeah, it used be fantastic and the community at the time was great. You could spend the entire weekend and people would be starting from Friday through to Sunday night and going through to Monday, and everyone would be keeping everyone else in high spirits on the forums. So it’s probably one of the high points of the community, to be honest. I think a few times were saying you

Leigh Chalker (36:52):
Down that path. Tell us about that period of time. I’m always interested in this sort of stuff.

Hayden Fryer (36:57):
I was so drunk during that period. I have no idea. I man, it’s all just blur.

Leigh Chalker (37:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were mentioning that everyone was super,

Hayden Fryer (37:13):
Super. That’s a great frame to just stuck on. I believe we’re having technical difficulties. Is that me?

Hayden Fryer (37:50):
I,

Hayden Fryer (37:59):
Hey, cool. We are still live. Hello world. It’s the Hayden show. Alright. Since I’m currently handling the whole thing myself,

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (38:17):
I’ll jump in and help you out.

Hayden Fryer (38:19):
Oh, hello. I was going to get my copy of War In Peace and just start reciting it.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (38:25):
Oh, nice, nice. No, now that Lee’s gone.

Hayden Fryer (38:29):
He kicked himself.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (38:31):
Yeah, he’s maybe lost internet. I don’t know. He’s not replying to anything, so I don’t know where he is. So Hayden, apart from this pickle obsession, how are you going tonight? Well, I just looked up the hunt and I can’t find it anywhere really. And I’m trying to, there’s actually

Hayden Fryer (38:52):
A link on my site, pre production site, so

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (38:56):
Com copy for the physical copy.

Hayden Fryer (38:58):
Oh, physical copy.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (38:59):
Yeah. I’ve been looking for a physical copy since you said it because like I need this in my collection. Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (39:06):
Yeah. Drop. I

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (39:08):
Started collecting like three years ago.

Hayden Fryer (39:10):
If you get in contact with Drop Air Comics, I know Jay’s got a couple of copies and they’re signed. I think he’s on Instagram. Drop Bear comics.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (39:19):
Yeah, I’m writing that down so I don’t forget it.

Hayden Fryer (39:23):
I dunno if Darren,

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (39:25):
This is the best time to do it. Yep. Live. Find out where to buy someone’s comic instead of do the show. Okay. What would Lee do

Hayden Fryer (39:37):
Before,

Hayden Fryer (39:37):
After

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (39:39):
I’m the button pusher? I’ll just continue what you are telling me about yourself. Where were we before? I can’t remember where you were at before Lee disappeared. Disappeared.

Hayden Fryer (39:52):
This whole short-term memory thing is just terrible. Where was I? Yeah, who am I? Who am I really? Who am I?

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (40:01):
Well, we could go to some things. Tell us about the, oh, here we go. Tell us. Oh, I’m pressing the wrong buttons. Tell us about 24 hour comic.

Hayden Fryer (40:11):
Bit

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (40:12):
More flustered.

Hayden Fryer (40:13):
So we went to the Space Plaza to get space avocados for our girlfriends and then got into a fight with the botch and the botch blew up the Space Plaza. I think that’s the first one. Botch. And then the second one, I don’t know, it’s got something to do with coffee. Coffee pops up a lot, a lot. I think we even pick a fight with the coffee guide in there at some point. And then we blow up a bunch of stuff. Probably

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (40:42):
Don’t mess with the coffee guide, man. Don’t mess with the coffee guide.

Hayden Fryer (40:45):
Yeah. Yeah, it, there’s a lot of random shit in there. You could probably still find the comments online actually. I think if the pub faction forums are still archived, I’m pretty sure the links should be still active. Maybe. No, maybe I deleted the files that will link to it.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (41:02):
Well, I won’t probably check while this is, anyway, hang on. Oh, his internet’s gone. Oh, let’s see if I can

Hayden Fryer (41:19):
Too many pickles. What a pickle. He’s absolutely

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (41:21):
More pickles. You’ll be pickles. So yeah, you’ve overloaded it. Well we’ve got Ian’s link here. I’ll put that up. Server. Everyone can see that.

Hayden Fryer (41:29):
There we go.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (41:32):
Bandcamp.com. So get some excellent tunes there. I

Hayden Fryer (41:36):
Think the albums called,

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (41:37):
We have some going

Hayden Fryer (41:38):
On.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (41:40):
Oh, sorry, what was that?

Hayden Fryer (41:42):
The album, is it C to City or City to C? The album. I always get it back to phone.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (41:49):
I dunno. And we’ve got something I don’t understand. Oh yeah, that’s the technical issues. Yeah.

Hayden Fryer (41:58):
So full name was the short one-Off Comic I did back in 2000. Oh,

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (42:02):
Okay. I thought you was referring to Lee then. Okay. Oh, he’s back.

Hayden Fryer (42:09):
Lee’s in the background is,

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (42:11):
Yeah, he’s back. So I can stop panicking now. We’ll put him on the right side.

Hayden Fryer (42:15):
He’s back. He’s back.

Shane ‘Sizzle’ Syddall (42:16):
I’ll leave

Hayden Fryer (42:17):
The man. The mystery, the master. No, remember that back from

Leigh Chalker (42:23):
The beauties of live streams, mate. Hey, how’s that for you? Did everyone miss me? Alright, I’m back. Anyway, so apologies and it was

Hayden Fryer (42:32):
A wonderful story. It was a wonderful

Leigh Chalker (42:36):
Helping

Hayden Fryer (42:36):
Covered everything. Everything I’ve done so far.

Leigh Chalker (42:39):
Yeah, yeah. Alright, well, all right, well, I guess I’m not required. We’ll get Shane back on and I’ll duck off and make another cover and

Hayden Fryer (42:49):
I’ll see you in 20 years.

Leigh Chalker (42:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the apologies, man. I dunno what happened there. But these things happen, so hell no, Shane reckons, it’s like, it’s all right, Shane, I just want to keep you on your toes there, mate. You can blend into Netty, webby things around this joint. It’s not the first time we’ve ever come across that. Alright, so where we’re at now, man, I’m going to get straight into the crux of it too. I want to talk to you about your artwork, because I do have a look at a lot of your artwork that you post up on, particularly your pages and your sketches and things like that, and your videos that you set up and showing people your quick takes on your pages and things. You have an unusual process to me. I like the smudging thing. I’m noticing that in particular, there was an image of a lady standing near a lake type thing and there were trees all around it and things, but the image came through after the smudges. So you started with the smudges and that just made me think I was watching and I was like, that had not, I guess

Hayden Fryer (44:07):
Were they plant smudges or was just me, just smudging,

Leigh Chalker (44:09):
Plant smudges. They ended up being plants. So the one thing that I’m always interested in is what was, because from Billy to where you are now, I think there’s been a massive leap in what you are doing, man, in terms of your ability, alright. Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (44:32):
Every series I’ve done has been a different, it’s been a shifting art style each time.

Leigh Chalker (44:38):
Well, you starting that earlier, and so that’s where I’m coming at. You said you were consciously changing styles and things like that. Was it to suit the story or was it just something you wanted to do and the story comes around the changing of art styles or what’s your process?

Hayden Fryer (44:56):
I think after Darkest Night, I realised I had to probably go from ground back up again and relearn how to draw. I realised I was going down a rabbit hole of really rubbery proportions and I still kept that in Cobra. But yeah, it’s been much more a conscious choice on each book of doing something different because everything takes so long to do as well. I’ll get stuck drawing that way for the length of a project. And even during a project, you’ll see I’ll start in one style and then it’ll shift throughout the book and gradually, and you’ll notice that I learn how to draw. I’ll learn how to draw essentially.

Leigh Chalker (45:34):
You learning, I guess man,

Hayden Fryer (45:38):
The characters will, they’ll find a groove after a few issues in or something like that, or there’ll be idiosyncrasies and way of doing something and I’ll go down a path as more pronounced as the series progresses. So I think Billy’s probably the clearest obvious one. So where I started in issue one to issue five, I was a little much more clean line cartoony by five, coming back into it for series two, it was a lot more cartoony and then got a lot heavier with the blacks. And then I was playing more abstract shapes by the end of it. And then with Darkest Night, I was heavily focusing more on the character dynamics, so it was a lot less action. It was three characters essentially going through life. It was more of a slice of life thing, but I was still drawing that same cartoonish style or animated style and everything’s sort of more rubbery but more defined.

(46:27)
And then after that I realised, yeah, okay, I’ve really got to relearn how to draw essentially. And then I hit a point, the cyber series where I’m focusing on trying to get things right. The second issue is usually where it starts to mesh properly, and then I’ll just be getting the shit so that something can severe and then just pushing myself to finish it. So by the end of the series, everything just gets looser, rougher and less defined. And you can probably really see that in Cobo where everyone’s, everyone’s figure work just gets more blown out or more rubbery or more less consistent. So

Leigh Chalker (47:00):
Yeah, with taking you back to when you, I’m going to learn to draw again, what did you consciously do to make yourself, I guess, better within yourself, feel more confident? Did you go to life drawing or did you start looking at books a bit closer or looking at people walking around the street? What was your thought processing there?

Hayden Fryer (47:26):
Yeah, doing the whole thing of looking at anatomy books, doing some life drawing classes. But the problem with life drawing classes is the fixed poses, and it’s usually pretty generic poses the whole time. So you can work out, you get more stuff with form and figure work, but then if you’re doing a comic, you’ve got to know how to draw something in any position, any movement, any shot you can think of essentially. And you’ve got to be able to draw everything else in the scene to go with that too. It’s something I always clash personally. So it’s the idea between a representational shape of what you’re drawing and then the actual shape of that it is. And I always start one swing and then end up in the other swing and then somewhere it muddies up in between. So I think at that point during dark night, I realised I didn’t know how to draw a lot of things or I had to relearn how to do perspective, and I still don’t have perspective down at all.

(48:16)
And the realisation I had to draw, I think Caleb was sitting in these office space or he was at home and I had to decorate the home with fixtures and fittings and stuff like that to try to make it feel more lived in. And I realised I had to learn how to draw that sort of stuff. And then, yeah, darker sight was a bit of a massive learning curve in that regard. Not even taking into account the story stuff, which is a whole over conversation completely with that progression between the different projects and then working out, realising how to draw different things. I had to go back and bag six on each one and then start fresh again.

Leigh Chalker (48:54):
Did do the sketching before or are you on the page that you’re doing and trying to get the comic book pages done and then realise usually,

Hayden Fryer (49:05):
Yeah, I normally I’ll do a couple of short stories, testing out a style sort of approach or something, get an idea of which direction to go to. And then once I actually start on the project, everything just seems to fall out of it naturally, I guess. So I’ll start picking ways of rendering something or I’ll look at how to present something or which pens I’m using or brushes or whatever tool I’m using to get a certain effect and it all just grows more naturally out of whatever I’m doing on the page.

Leigh Chalker (49:33):
Yeah, yeah. No, that’s a cool way of doing it. Just organic really with the story that progresses, man, the smudging idea for the trees, man, I liked the way that you did that first and then I was looking, thinking to myself in that image, I was like, where’s he going with this? In your

Hayden Fryer (49:55):
Coffee? Just clarify. I have no idea which one you’re talking about because there’s only 2000 damn sketches,

Leigh Chalker (50:01):
Right? It was just recent look, man, maybe in the last month or so that I’ve seen it. But basically what I’m getting at is there was smudges and then you created the image forward towards, in a perspective type way, you created the female figure and stuff. After you’d done the, it seemed to me that you had some real intent with the smudges, you knew where they were going. It wasn’t just random and Mr. Squiggle sort of stuff. It looked like

Hayden Fryer (50:37):
It kind of is. Yeah, that whole lifestyle is a happy accident. So I’m usually using, if I’m building up up an image, you’ll usually see some sort of pencil lines down where I’ve just blocked in some rough shapes or an idea. But a lot of times I’m using some sort of reference for the sketch. So I’ll find something on Instagram online, a friend will post something or I’ll use some sort of reference material for it to start from, and I’ll usually have that sort of next to it and I’ll use that as a guiding line and then just see where it goes from there essentially. So most of those are happy accidents and there’s a technique of putting the brush lines down, but then how they come out swaps and changes every time. And yeah, it’s very much not consistent at all, although it seems to after a period, but the intent’s really not. So every time I spend a few months not doing any, I’ll completely forget how I draw faces or an eye or what strokes I put down for a face or a chin or something like that. So yeah.

Leigh Chalker (51:37):
How often do you draw

Hayden Fryer (51:41):
Waxes and wanes? Sometimes I’ll just do a night cap before I crash out, or if I’m ordering pizza in the weekend, it’s the token pizza sketch. So the waiting on pizza, 15 minute sketch.

Leigh Chalker (51:52):
Yeah, yeah, right. Okay. No, that’s cool. I do like your sketches when you do put random,

Hayden Fryer (52:02):
I think the smudging you’re talking about, it’s probably the sponge, isn’t it?

Leigh Chalker (52:05):
Yes, it is the sponge. Yeah. A ule tied flame.

Hayden Fryer (52:12):
Yeah. So that was my last comic that I self-published back in December.

Leigh Chalker (52:17):
Yeah.

Hayden Fryer (52:18):
Was there a question to follow that up with or was just a case of

Leigh Chalker (52:20):
No, not from Ian. No, I was just reading Ian comments there. I was actually thinking, what was the IDE flame, the name of the picture? It left me a little bit like, okay,

Hayden Fryer (52:34):
Chronological, sorry.

Leigh Chalker (52:38):
Tell us about the Yule tide flame.

Hayden Fryer (52:40):
It’s a Christmas ghost story. Very sappy. Very, very sappy,

Leigh Chalker (52:46):
Very happy, very sy. Alright, so what brought that out in you?

Hayden Fryer (52:51):
Just wanted to do a ghost story and then I had a timeline to get something done and there’s a whole thing of Christmas ghost stories that’s very traditional in Victorian sense. Everyone knows a Christmas carol. So I was looking for something that would resonate a little more thematically with the season, but it wasn’t the tokenized version of the season that we’re used to now. So I was kind of looking for something that acknowledges the sappiness, I guess there was a whole thought process on it, but it’s also a year ago where I cracked it, so I’m like, I’m a little bit removed from it now, so it kind of exists and yeah.

Leigh Chalker (53:31):
Okay. From that, what I’m picking up to is once you’ve formulated an idea, you work on it, you feel like you work on your weaknesses for that, and you get an idea of what style you want to go with and what’s tickling your fancy in terms of an art process at that stage and style. And then you just bang into the work and you’re focusing on it and you go a little bit slow until you find your feet. And then by the second issue, you’re humming with this new style and then you get to a point where it’s like, I’m really in the zone and you through it and then you put it away and then you let it go. And that’s how you

Hayden Fryer (54:15):
That in the zone party, I’m so fucking done with this. I just want it done. That line between totally the zone on this to fuck, it just will not end. Can I swear I’ve been swearing so much here.

Leigh Chalker (54:27):
You have been. It doesn’t matter. It’s okay. This is an unusual episode, man. So it’s like

Hayden Fryer (54:33):
Should just be saying pickles and so fuck

Leigh Chalker (54:35):
Yeah. Well, let’s not say that as often as we did the Pickles word and that we should be All right, fucking A, come on now. Come on. Or I’ll put that the after Billy I, come on, come on with me.

Hayden Fryer (54:53):
Do you want to get booted again? Do you really want to get booted again, don’t you? I

Leigh Chalker (54:56):
Booted myself mate. Or the internet webby, gods did. God knows what happened there. I like that idea that you can just jettison these ideas, man, because I can’t, Hey, I carry ’em around in my head forever, man. It’s a compartmentalised section of my mind, man, where I’m constantly walking around in comic book days, you know what I mean? Full of stories and chastising myself about, I could have done that better, even though I did that four years ago. I

Hayden Fryer (55:36):
Find it easier just to, once I’m in the zone to do something and actually get started on it, I end up becoming pretty focused on it the entire time. So once it’s actually done and on paper and exists, I can just go over it at that point so I don’t have to stop. I can stop worrying about or thinking about it or thinking down different paths or trying to wrap something up or whatever else it is, which makes it hard to come back to something later on as well. When Bristol Math was finished, it was actually finished a couple of years back and it was picked up last year by IPI and it was released in the last four months. I had to come back and do some edits, some extra pages just to sort of tidy up for print and then revise it all. And then I had just get my heads, I’d done a U type flame afterwards. I had to come back into this, try and find the same headspace I was in at the time for Bristol Mouth to get the voices right I guess, essentially. And yeah, I know once it’s in print I pretty much just, yeah, I’m done, let it go. And I think Billy’s probably the only character I’ve actually gone back to over the years and still be able to find the same voice again.

Leigh Chalker (56:44):
Yeah, well I suppose that might be like your first creation, I suppose is your love, isn’t it? You know what I mean? And you never far away.

Hayden Fryer (56:52):
Yeah, he’s a smart ass, so it makes a lot easier.

Leigh Chalker (56:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well he may gravitate towards that mate. And Billy’s probably a little, as we’ve said tonight, a bit cheeky and that’s okay

Hayden Fryer (57:09):
On that topic, there was a woman who ran into me constantly at conventions. Didn’t matter how many times I introduced myself, she’d remember me as Billy. Just Billy. Just Billy, yeah. I dunno what it was. I could tell my name’s Hayden. Hayden just like Billy, like Billy. You’re like, okay, alright, I’ll just answer that then fine.

Leigh Chalker (57:32):
Well, this might be part of the existential crisis we were having earlier, mate, John, Hayden, Billy, you know what I mean? Yuletide might be the next one. Do you know what I mean? You might get all sorts of names, mate, as long as they’re pleasant. So hello, how are you? Nice to see you. Yeah, no dude, because I hadn’t seen mean look, I like to draw. So just for the moment, I mean Anna write obviously, but I just So is

Hayden Fryer (58:07):
That your mood ball behind you or is that a project?

Leigh Chalker (58:11):
No, AR projects, they’re reference material from previous issues because I got fed up with opening up comic books and Holden having my pages up and everything. So when I get ’em scanned, I’d do a four photocopy and anything I’m working on goes up in a section like the previous issue or character images and stuff and I can just look and see what’s happening because I’m a bit like, for me, inking, I spend a lot of time inking. I like inking, that’s my painting. But my pencils are quick. I do really, I’ll show basically man, not being, but you’ll understand that image there is like 10 or 15 minute sketch and that’s about as detailed as my pencils get. So when I sit down the pencil on a three page, I like everything there. I don’t want to be unsure and stop and that because I just bottle the flow man, and then I’ll come back to it and fix everything up with the inking is basically how I rock and roll. So that’s in a similar sort of sense. That’s where I jettison everything, you know what I mean? And then come back later with the inking. The inking is the enjoyable part for me that, oh man, the pencils and spending days laying out panels and then going back and making sure they work.

(59:49)
Yeah, I’ve been spending the last week or so laying out comics in notepads. I have a little school notepads and each comic has its own one. So I do, I can sit there and does that make sense? And you act and carry on or I do anyway, I jump around.

Hayden Fryer (01:00:10):
How detailed are those thumbnails? Are they just essentially just scratches or are they

Leigh Chalker (01:00:14):
Well, I’ll show you.

Hayden Fryer (01:00:16):
I’ve been curious about that. If you look at different thumbnails, mine, yeah, I’ve shown my thumbnails other people and you can’t decipher anything out of them. So you can read the action in there pretty easily and the forms and the figure work.

Leigh Chalker (01:00:34):
So leave myself little notes for scripting ideas and bits and bobs as well. So I dunno actually

Hayden Fryer (01:00:44):
If anyone has a copy of your type flame, I think my thumbnails are in the back of that. See how scratchy it is. I don’t think there’s anything in here.

Leigh Chalker (01:00:53):
As long as the person creating the comic book can read the thumbnails man. But don’t you hate it back and go, what the hell was I thinking?

Hayden Fryer (01:01:02):
I did have that. So I think it was darkest night when I was doing that originally. I scripted how far a script, once I cracked the story, I think I script up to somewhere around issue two from memory, and then everything after that was literally just thumbnails and a sketchbook. So there was about, I don’t know, maybe 40 or 50 pages of that entire last section. That’s just a series of thumbnails at about where are we screen wise. So if you’ve got an A five book, which there was nothing written on that, it’s too personal. So if we’ve got an A five book for example, where are you here? There was about, I dunno, maybe nine or something. Paige’s thumbnail on that. Hey, he’s gone again.

Leigh Chalker (01:01:56):
No, no, I’m here. It’s just Shane opens the screen up there. So don’t panic. Don’t panic mate. Yeah, it’s all yours. I’m going to go make a couple catchy in half hour

Hayden Fryer (01:02:08):
Half. Do I start snoring now or later?

Leigh Chalker (01:02:10):
Oh, give it five. I’ll try and hurry the kettle along.

Hayden Fryer (01:02:14):
Do you believe there’s actually no thumbnails in this damn sketchbook?

Leigh Chalker (01:02:17):
Oh, that’s always the way. Hey, always the way.

Hayden Fryer (01:02:21):
Yeah. I started doing my loose sheets. I started working on copper, I think it was. So didn’t really use these apart from just doing scratches.

Leigh Chalker (01:02:30):
So obviously your process of getting the work started is different every time. You’re not just doing nails, you’re doing scripts, and then you put the script aside, did thumbnails, and so you would come back and done the Marvel way with what you knew was happening sort of thing. You obviously mixed,

Hayden Fryer (01:02:52):
It’s a bit of a mixed, yeah, it’s a bit of a mixed bag. So Billy, I had complete scripts for the first five issues, and then I didn’t pay attention to the scripts, I think from issue two or something. So three, four, and five just went in their own direction. I think series two was Thumbnailed. I don’t think there’s any scripts at all for that. So I was breaking down the action and thumbnails and then doing the dialogue afterwards. Darkest night, I had a loose beat sheet that I think it was just some rough breakdowns. I did a semis script up until issue two, whatever it was. I think I said earlier. Then every rest of that was just thumbnailed and then dialogue post done afterwards to try and tidy it all up and wrap it all back up together. Copper had a full script, but then because revised that as we were working, so Copper was actually developed with two other people.

(01:03:46)
So Chris Charlton and Matt Curry. I ended up doing the script in the comic and then they were going to work on a film version At some point. I think Matt’s done a film script for it, so it’s up to them to finish that part of the whole deal. But the comic that exists was my first pass on the script, and then we edit it together and progress it together as well as I was working through it. I think you issue four or something. I think issue four was its own thing and that whole section doesn’t really appear in the script. And then I had to go back to the script for issue five and for context issue five, where’s a big gunfight through the town, all the staging, all this backwards and forwards going on, and the script said Q gunfight.

Leigh Chalker (01:04:31):
Oh, you had fun.

Hayden Fryer (01:04:34):
Yeah, I had to work it out on the page because I had so many spinning plates at the time. I think that issue probably went a little underappreciated when people were reading it because I went into a sort of blind, I knew how I ended it and I knew I had to get to a certain point and then had to zigzag through it all. So the fact that if it does work, it’s probably amazing that it works. If it doesn’t work, that’s probably the reason why. And then, yeah, Bristol Mouth was probably same thing. I had a script that went through a few different stages and then actually, it’s probably pretty close to the script. I think with Bristol Mouth, if anyone’s read it, there’s a camp seating issue two. Yeah, it’s issue two where all our friends are in the camp and there’s a conversation that blows out and explodes, and that’s pretty much a beat sheet on the script. There’s nothing really defined with the actual dialogue. It’s just more of a mood and direction. And then I just sort of break it down in the thumbnails and then come back in with the dialogue over the fact afterwards to try and get everything to work.

Leigh Chalker (01:05:32):
Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (01:05:32):
That’s cool. And then frame, I think there’s a three page script, which essentially became 28 pages of Artisan. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:05:40):
No. So you are organic on these things. So obviously you just basic format of an idea and then you just allow your creative, your creativity just to take over if you so feel at that particular point in time. Yeah, I think that’s great, man. I love it. Che. I struggle with thumbnails. I could never make out what they were supposed to be when I go back later. Yeah, guilty of that, mate. So don’t stress about that too much.

Hayden Fryer (01:06:06):
That’s the thing I was curious about. I’ve seen my own thumbnails, I’ve gone back to years later, and some of ’em I can read clearly still, and some of ’em like, what the fuck is that? What is that scribble? Is that a face? Is that a smiley face? Why is there a smiley face at this page? But then I’ve seen other people’s ones where it’s like, it’s super detailed and it’s like they’ve just drawn the page as a thumbnail, and then the final page is literally just an elaboration on that. So

Leigh Chalker (01:06:28):
Yeah,

(01:06:30)
Look, I spend, the tricky part for me is the thumbnails, because I like to make sure it’s flowing and moving and each panel’s work and perspectives and stuff, and I can spend many days on a comic book doing it. You know what I mean? And sometimes I can flow, it’s like, and other times I hit a wall and I have to go back and I’ve talked to the other guys that do the comic shows and that at varying times. And if I, man, I do stupid stuff to find angles. I don’t tend to take references. I’ll go and take photos of myself doing things or jumping off like a chair to try and get images and just, I basically act out certain things, you know what I mean? In the confine of the studio. I think

Hayden Fryer (01:07:30):
Everyone does

Leigh Chalker (01:07:30):
That. Yeah. I’ve been known to go down to the park and sit there with the dogs man and camera at ready just for that one moment where someone, you wait there for an hour sometimes before someone does something that you go, oh, you know what I mean? That’s sort of what I’m thinking. When

Hayden Fryer (01:07:48):
The cops get called, you have to explain why you’ve got so many furs or something.

Leigh Chalker (01:07:53):
Yeah, yeah. I carry a cane with me as well, and just say that Lloyd’s my helping dog. So there’s ways around that Hayden. So no, I don’t really, but I do like to walk around. I go for walks and take the dogs, obviously, but I observe a lot of things, man, and just take references from that. But yeah, that’s my tricky part. I have scripts, initial scripts, synopsis type things, but they’re more foundational points with ideas of dialogue that as I’m doing the thumbnails grow and as I’m doing the pencils, I’m constantly evolving. This issue will be different to the last issue as was different to the previous one. So I like you, man, I haven’t really settled on a particular,

Hayden Fryer (01:08:53):
Yeah, I’ve heard a lot of people going through different processes where it’s like they’ll have the breakdown cards with the different beats and they’ll shuffle ’em all around to try and tell a story, or someone will just go in completely blind on something and just let it evolve on the page. And I’m more personally more of a structuralist, so as long as I’ve got an idea on where I’m starting, where I’m going and what I need to weave through, I can sort of navigate my way through it all. But yeah, the process people go through is, it’s definitely a look into how they think sometimes and how maniacal it can be, but then that maniacal just sort of forms itself on the page eventually, so

Leigh Chalker (01:09:31):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it does, man. I always look, man, I always used to stress mate about the process, you know what I mean? I was reading books back in the day of, what’s the right process? I should do it this way, I should do it that way. And then years ago when I, like many years ago now, when I decided to start battle for Bustle, I just put everything down and just went, okay, man, there’s about as much knowledge as you can get up to that point. I’ve got to feel it, you know what I mean? And feel my way through.

Hayden Fryer (01:10:12):
The best way of learning something is by doing it. And then you’re going to experiment, evolve as you’re doing it.

Leigh Chalker (01:10:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Look, it took a lot of mistakes, man. You know what I mean? And a lot of learning. But with that, things improve, man, understanding of story, understanding of process. I think you can have the best script in the world and you can have the best art, but if there’s no flow and story, man and thing happening, you know what I mean? You’re in

Hayden Fryer (01:10:42):
Trouble, which is the beauty of comics. You don’t need high detailed art to tell a story. You can do it very simply, very basically. And as long as it gets the idea across, it’s functional.

Leigh Chalker (01:10:54):
Yeah, man, that’s the beauty of the medium, mate. You know what I mean? You can do it as simple as you want, or you can do it as complex as you want. It’s entirely up to you. But there’s no right or wrong way either.

Hayden Fryer (01:11:05):
There’s a right way to execute something that’s going to work for the story. So if you go in with a certain approach visually, or you go into a certain approach tangibly the narrative or something like that, and it doesn’t work what the story’s trying to tell or do, sometimes it’ll clash. There’s a whole lot of, I’m trying to think for an example. So if you go for the house styles, so at the house styles of art, say for top cow, and you look at something like Midnight Nation maybe, where it’s more a, it feels like a house stop, and the story’s very more left field, more of a darker story, and it kind of clashes, and you usually see a lot in US stuff where the house style clash, whatever the narrative is that selling I,

Leigh Chalker (01:11:49):
Yeah, yeah, I guess so in terms of, you’re talking in terms of a creative partnership, in terms of a collaboration between a writer and an artist in that regard, and how

Hayden Fryer (01:12:02):
Sometimes the matches don’t always work with the execution that they’re going for. They’re tied down with something. I can’t think what the word is for it. There’s probably a word for it, but Oh,

Leigh Chalker (01:12:15):
Probably just, I dunno, man. I’ve only ever really done a couple of collaborations, man.

Hayden Fryer (01:12:21):
Oh, there he is. Alex

Leigh Chalker (01:12:22):
Gets some attention, Alex, Alex, go back and rewatch the show. You’ve been set a challenge, mate. Get him on drink and draw. There you go. Yeah, I’m sure Hayden would love to. We’ll talk about that later, which is, but I haven’t done too many collaborations, man. I’ve done a fair bit of drawing and stuff like Ryan Bella and Spie and Ben Sullivan and with me mate, Peter Wilson and stuff. But I’ve just predominantly learned myself. I know what you’re saying. I mean, you can see when something’s not working, you know what I mean? But I don’t know, dude, I’ll come back to you, Che. Just give me one second to finish this thought and I’ll be, I

Hayden Fryer (01:13:13):
Think you should experiment with doing someone else’s script. You’ll see how they’ll think, and I’ve noticed that there’s a different way they’ll think visually too. So if someone’s coming from more of a pro perspective, the panels will be jumping more or be more text heavy when it comes to dialogue and be more exposition. Or if someone’s more of an artist writing it, then you’ll find that it’s more action on the page. Or if there are no bias, you’ll find that the panel’s got five different actions occurring in one panel. It’s like, okay, this is four or five panels. I’m going to break it down now to try and make sure it flows okay.

Leigh Chalker (01:13:47):
Yeah. Well, I found the best way around that my collaborations man was to do thumbnails. That’s how I sort of started to do those more detailed thumbnails. So before I just dropped an A three sheet onto the person I was writing for, you know what I mean? I was like, this is what I’m thinking. Is this what you, and then talk, you know what I mean? Communicate, let’s just do this and that. But you’re going to have to, so it’s communication, I guess, too, man. But everyone’s different. But look, Hayden, I basically, man, again, everyone’s different. I just think you should have fun and you learn while you’re having fun. And if it hits you, if the, well, you

Hayden Fryer (01:14:28):
Got to spend this time drawing smaller faces and squares. Got to have fun with it at some point.

Leigh Chalker (01:14:33):
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure, man. I agree. We’ll get back to Che’s comment, please, siz if we can. I don’t want to omit that. The great thing about that journey is that everyone has their own process. So by trying all of them, you can find the bits and pieces that work for you and then build your own process. And that’s exactly it, man. What works for one doesn’t for the other. And do you find little bits and pieces and you learn along the way?

Hayden Fryer (01:14:58):
Yeah, don’t be afraid to play around with different things. Doesn’t always have to work. No one has to ever see.

Leigh Chalker (01:15:06):
There’s probably, man. How many pages do you reckon you got that no one’s ever seen? Lots and lots.

Hayden Fryer (01:15:16):
It’s probably a couple of hundred early stuff. Pretty much everything I’ve done since I started has been published. I think it’s maybe 20, 20 or 30 pages,

(01:15:34)
Pretty much everything since I started. So from Billy onwards, pretty much everything’s seen print apart from a couple of backlog projects that haven’t gone out yet. So there’s a couple of short stories with Emmett Wan, which haven’t gone out. There’s a couple of Jason Franks, which haven’t popped up anywhere yet, but most of the stuff I’ve done sort of seen a lot of days somewhere I’ve kind of made sure of that. There’s no point if you’re going to put something out there, it’s got to be viewed good or bad. So it’s all part of the journey as well. I mean, I’m learning how to draw in the public space when it comes to this sort of stuff, but I’m also lucky in the case that it’s a very small demographic looking at it. So if I fuck something up, it doesn’t really matter too much. It’s not really going out worldwide to have everyone nitpick it.

Leigh Chalker (01:16:28):
Yeah. So with that, let’s go back to that thought because that’s a cool thought you just had. So your intentions are when you start something, it’s going to get out there. When you choose a project with other people, like you were saying, do you accept those projects on the value of the energy that is you’re getting? Or is it more of a case of I like it? Is that going to get into print? Because if I put this work in, it’s getting into print, it’s not sitting on the shelf. What’s the driving force there?

Hayden Fryer (01:17:07):
If I like the person who’s pitching it to me, and it’s something I can think it’s the right time, it’s some fun I can experiment with or do something with, then usually I’ll go, okay, why not give it a go?

(01:17:19)
And there’s a couple of writers I’ll happily work with many times over. They just don’t ride as often as they should be to do that. But yeah, it’s one of those things where I don’t play well with other people when it comes creatively. I tend to have an idea of which direction going things are going in or which way to go. And then, yeah, I know working with someone else in that regard, it’s more of a partnership. So it’s too and fro. So, okay, here’s the idea, here’s the direction, which way do we go with it? And I think I haven’t really done that too much on the larger projects. Always. It railroads me when it comes to getting stuff done. If I’ve got to bounce off someone else to get something out, it just frustrates me. They always take too long and I need to get it done. I need to move forward essentially on it.

Leigh Chalker (01:18:04):
So you won’t pencil down for a day, waiting for a reply. You want that reply bang Now ready to,

Hayden Fryer (01:18:13):
I work full time, so I’ve got windows to get stuff done in a week. And if I’m doing a 24 page comic, okay, that’s going to take me, if I’m not doing anything else, then it’s three pages a week. What’s that work out to eight weeks or two months. And then I’ll probably get tennis elbow again doing that. So I won’t do it,

Leigh Chalker (01:18:32):
Man, you are flying doing three pages a week, like you’re a three size? Yeah. Or you,

Hayden Fryer (01:18:41):
Yeah, no, yeah, your type flame was a three, copper was a three. Darkest night was a three, Billy was a four. And Brist bristle mouth was actually some weird size. It’s above digest, so I can’t think of the dimensions, but it’s actually, it’s not as big as a three. It’s not as small as a four, and it’s sort of in between. And then for the scaling on it to us standard, I think it was like 20% reduction or something. So yeah. Right.

Leigh Chalker (01:19:12):
Okay. So that’s what meant,

Hayden Fryer (01:19:13):
Yeah, the small pages, obviously you can do quicker, so

Leigh Chalker (01:19:15):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, mate, I did a some. Well,

Hayden Fryer (01:19:22):
Here’s a question for you. How long does it take you to do a page from concept to final?

Leigh Chalker (01:19:30):
From concept to as in pencilling, what I showed you before and then inking it from start to finish? I’d have to say, how long is a piece of string meant? There’s varying things that go into my process, I guess, of creating a page. I don’t do deadlines. I worked that out a long time ago. That doesn’t work for me, so I can’t do what, I can’t get out of a page for me,

Hayden Fryer (01:19:58):
What’s the Douglas Adams quote? I love deadlines. I love the sound they make as they go wishing past.

Leigh Chalker (01:20:02):
Yes. Yeah. Well, dude, when I talk about joy of creating the pages is I’m quite legitimate with that because it’s like creativity and drawing has actually legitimately, and I’m not bullshitting. You saved my life. If I didn’t have it, I’d be dead and due to circumstances, so I don’t rush it. And if other people want me to rush it, then it’s not happening. So we’ve already come to an impasse aid. So I enjoy working with other people, but I’m also an independent creative for that understanding that I’m not going to ever have someone go, Hey man, let’s do a comic for Marvel. You can have as long as you want. Okay, sweet. So this is just a lane I’ve chosen. I just choose to get something different out of it. So my pages, I like to pencil, but my love is ink and I love black and white.

(01:21:02)
So my inking is painting because I love to paint and I can’t paint when I’m drawing. So I had to bring the two of them together, and that’s what I do. So I layer, I just start off with pencils and then ink lines out lines, add black and grey shades and get dark. And I look at things, white out sprays, splashes until I feel like things are happening. And then there’s something, I dunno, man. I dunno why. Just I get to a point and it’s just like, that’s done. And then I move that page over and I tell you, because that little alarm bell in me tells me when it’s not done and when I’ve given

Hayden Fryer (01:21:44):
That, yeah, is it done,

Leigh Chalker (01:21:48):
Man, I hate it. It’s like I hate that drawing. But so I wait for the bell, like the internal bell that tells me like it’s done and I put it aside and I’ll leave it and whatever’s there is there, and I just judge my style stuff on that, man. So some pages can take, look, hang on, look. Well, I’ll show you. I’ll give you an idea. Says bring this up for a tick bud. And I’ll show Hayden that now that there man are two separate a three pages. So let’s focus on,

Hayden Fryer (01:22:22):
Wow, okay. I can feel the Rs I just looking at it.

Leigh Chalker (01:22:25):
Yeah, well, both of those two pages probably. If I was to sit in here, I usually sit, come down here at five o’clock for my am in the most mornings. Like that one there, that’s a splash page. That’s probably about three days worth of work, man. Getting up, walking away, coming back, looking, having a cigarette shape and splash and fiddling. That’s just I, so I can’t really tell you, it’s just that’s my process. But yeah, so that’s what I mean is everyone’s different, man. So it’s like,

Hayden Fryer (01:23:02):
Don’t think I’d ever have the patience to do anything like that. I’d probably go crazy.

Leigh Chalker (01:23:07):
Okay, that’s cool, man. I don’t judge anyone, man. Creativity is a beautiful thing, man. That’s why I’m sitting here in Marvel of you going like, my God, you can belt out three pages in a week. Like, well,

Hayden Fryer (01:23:22):
That was, yeah, it was probably the Mac. Oh no, it waxes and wanes depending on what else I’m doing and how busy it’s, and what the page is like. But yeah, I think Cobo worked out about roughly that, so

Leigh Chalker (01:23:33):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s still amazing work, man. Amazingly quick and high quality too, man. Your stuff. Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (01:23:40):
That’s good. No,

Leigh Chalker (01:23:42):
Look, I like it, dude. I like it. As I said to you, man, I do. I’m not always on socials and stuff, you know what I mean? I try and stay off socials as best I can, but majority of the things that I look at are people’s artwork and stuff. And you came back onto my radar after I was chatting on a chinwag with Chris Sequeira last year, and he was talking to me about you were coming up with a project and stuff like that. So in my mind I was like, I’m going to keep an eye on Hayden Fryer. He’s on my radar. I want to check out. Well,

Hayden Fryer (01:24:20):
I heard you bought Crystal mouth in stores now.

Leigh Chalker (01:24:22):
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. And I tell you what, while you’re plugging it, where can you get it, mate? For everyone that’s at home,

Hayden Fryer (01:24:30):
All good comic shops.

Leigh Chalker (01:24:31):
That’s a good answer. And if it’s not the comic shops,

Hayden Fryer (01:24:37):
We can definitely get it from All Star in Melbourne, DS in Canberra, as long as they’re, I think they’re still good for this month Impact have it as well. I believe Alternative Worlds have it. The comic shop in Liverpool, if you’re in India, south Wales, I don’t know who is in Queensland these days. Shop Wise

Leigh Chalker (01:24:55):
Comics, et cetera, is in Brisbane. I think that’s the one. I think that might be the only one open in Brisbane. I’m not a hundred percent sure on that, but that’s in the Brisbane city on Elizabeth

Hayden Fryer (01:25:03):
Street. Yeah, I’m not too sure in Brisbane. I dunno who’s in Western Australia these days. I dunno if Greenlight is stocking it down in Adelaide or not, but you can Google it.

Leigh Chalker (01:25:13):
Yeah, yeah, Google is your friend. You can’t find anything on Google. Yeah, but mate, no, that’s why,

Hayden Fryer (01:25:24):
Yeah, Chris was fantastic as well. So Chris, how do I phrase it? Chris has been a fan since Darkest Night and has been hounding me for a while for something to sort of take and run with. And I think he was very gleefully happy with Bristol mouth because it sort of ticked all the boxes for him.

Leigh Chalker (01:25:43):
Yeah, well he likes that sort of theme from my conversation with him too. A little bit of horror, a little bit of what he was looking for with the new, I can never remember the name. Here we go. This is terrible, isn’t it? What’s the name of the imprint? The company, the

Hayden Fryer (01:26:05):
IP Comics.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:07):
IPI. That’s it? Yes. Alright,

Hayden Fryer (01:26:09):
So considering A IF WG Publishing.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:12):
Okay, there you go. There’s a of acronym. Acronym, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So everyone check that out too. So because some other stuff coming up as well, there’s the Human Flyers coming out and

Hayden Fryer (01:26:22):
Yeah, they just released issue zero of that. I think the main series launches in August or something. They’ve got Queenie Chan’s, the Dreaming, I think there’s a new chapter dropping of that. They just announced I think detectives coming back. So there’s a whole stack of stuff. It’s lined up as well, I think next year.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:39):
Yeah, that’s cool. Hey,

Hayden Fryer (01:26:41):
Keep an eye on.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:43):
Yeah, no, that’s good to

Hayden Fryer (01:26:44):
Buy stuff now from too, because you need bristle mouth.

Leigh Chalker (01:26:47):
Yeah, you do. And that’s what we’re trying to encourage here, man, is to get your new stuff out to new viewers, man, part future and present. Because it’s all about promoting comics, man, because regardless of which angle you’re coming at ’em from, man, we all share the same love. So you’ve got to spread that love, man. Which

Hayden Fryer (01:27:12):
Is one thing I love about Australian comics is that there is so many different angles of approach with it and so many different cliques doing different things in different pockets and yeah, people just don’t talk to each other, but man, there is so much random stuff out there that you can find if you go digging for it. And there’s ENC stuff like the Fats Phil guys working out of Queensland where you are. There was the Silent Enemy guys I think out of Melbourne, possibly South Wales always gets a short end stick with those sort of conglomerates. I think we’re just probably two separated. All bankers.

Leigh Chalker (01:27:48):
No man. A lot of my family comes from down there. The fourth monkey, I’ll be using the Google to find your stuff. Good on you Stu. Stu is a champion and everyone, while Stew’s up through Comex in July, outlaw Stew’s, first comic books are coming out. So congratulations Stu, for

Hayden Fryer (01:28:05):
When is that? The one with the Ned Kelly helmet and the bang, bang, bang, bang.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:09):
Yeah, man. A little bit like that. So yeah. Yeah, it’s like this story is to unfold, mate, and so let people go out and enjoy it. That’s

Hayden Fryer (01:28:21):
All good stories do.

Leigh Chalker (01:28:22):
That’s exactly right, Hayden. And the beautiful thing is Hayden is Stu Hass got a lovely story, man. Bristle mouth will be in the Comex shop soon. IPI rocks. There you go, sis. Say everyone out there. And Hayden for future reference Bristol mouth, we’ll be in the Comex shop. Oh,

Hayden Fryer (01:28:39):
There we go. Keep an eye on the Comex store,

Leigh Chalker (01:28:42):
Boom, boom. A little

Hayden Fryer (01:28:42):
Bit of house advertising,

Leigh Chalker (01:28:44):
Hey on cue mate, look at that. It’s like magic. And then I’ll drop off the internet again and you’ll be left by yourself and then, so let’s not hope for that much magic. But

Hayden Fryer (01:28:54):
Yeah, I a different stream at that point. So

Leigh Chalker (01:28:58):
Yeah, no fair.

Hayden Fryer (01:28:59):
Is there a direct competitor? There’s probably a direct competitor somewhere, right?

Leigh Chalker (01:29:04):
Who knows? I don’t know. There’s probably someone out there in terms of live streaming, I don’t know. But if I was going to directly compete with Chinwag, like

Hayden Fryer (01:29:15):
It’s probably someone from Melbourne, they’ve always got something to competes.

Leigh Chalker (01:29:20):
It’s so competitive. What would you call a competitive show like the gas bagger or something like that? Who knows? Putting ideas out there.

Hayden Fryer (01:29:33):
What was Eddie Campbell’s phrase for a bunch of graphic novelists? A whinge, is that right? Can someone correct me on that? Was it a whinge? Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:29:42):
No, I can’t, I can’t. But I’ve come across a lot of people that tend to do a lot of that, man. So my whole idea is to just try and steer as far away from negativity as I can and all that sort of stuff. I find whinging about as enjoyable as listening to people tell me how much money they’ve made on their last house sale, mate, I feel like well live. So you go iron married 25 anyway. That’s my Is that

Hayden Fryer (01:30:11):
You? That’s where you up in the self solitary.

Leigh Chalker (01:30:14):
Yeah, that’s exactly what happens. And Jeffrey, the comic Pickler. Oh, Jeffrey, that’s a good one. You can marinate all those things like we talked about earlier and if anyone missed that, you can watch that for the first hour, 15 minutes,

Hayden Fryer (01:30:30):
Hour.

Leigh Chalker (01:30:33):
And it was segued by me disappearing into the ether and then coming back and then we started talking about good stuff. Yeah. How long ago did you do bristle mouth? You said like you were doing two jobs. Chris came to you, did he approach you because he was a fan and then wanted it, you were saying, and then you had to go back, you had to re-edit it, like you obviously,

Hayden Fryer (01:30:58):
I can’t remember how we got on the conversation of it. I think I know he had been, actually he might have, I can’t remember how it worked out. I know he read Darkest Night when it first came out, and he’s been a pretty vocal supporter of that. And I think it must’ve just scratched the right spot for him. I think he’s always been curious to see what I’ve been working on and know what’s there and person I’ve, like I said, ticked all the boxes for him and it worked well with the company, what they’re looking for. So yeah, I got across the line. So the project was probably, I think I broke it like five years back. The script was probably about a year and a half to get it to the point where I’d start drawing it. I think I’d spent about a year and a half drawing it, so it was actually being drawn during that covid lockdown period. So that whole scene around the campfire I was talking about earlier was actually drawn in the middle of lockdown. I think it’s like a 14 page sequence or something. It was going nuts doing it.

(01:31:59)
Yeah, I think it was pitched, accepted a couple of years back. It was on the burner until they set everything up and then, yeah, it was obviously one of the worst ones to go out of the gate with Super humanity.

Leigh Chalker (01:32:10):
Yeah. Have you been to any of the, because I’m assuming your promo photo that you use because people have sent photos to put on the banner of Chinwag before and yours is an outstanding black and white profile pic Man, that I have to say was very, very well done. Very in a thank

Hayden Fryer (01:32:42):
You. That was a complete selfie,

Leigh Chalker (01:32:44):
Very

Hayden Fryer (01:32:46):
Talking like, yeah, you get that shot there. That works that for next 10 years.

Leigh Chalker (01:32:51):
Beautiful. So with that, and you said at the time when you sent it through to me, you said, I’ll send you the one that I always use. So obviously you’ve done some work around over the years, you’ve been around and now Common Book Coffee, you’re regular at the conventions and you get around or you’re a little bit more internal and don’t tend to go out into the convention scenes and stuff like that.

Hayden Fryer (01:33:16):
I was for a long time. So from 2004 through to about I think 18, I was doing Sydney conventions pretty consistently. I was up and down the seaboard doing some Melbourne ones and Queensland ones to the point where a few friends actually think I live in Queensland. They used to see me

Leigh Chalker (01:33:33):
In Queensland that often man

Hayden Fryer (01:33:35):
Run into, I was like, oh, you’re in Queensland. I’m like, yeah, no, never. But yeah, so I was doing all those ones on the Eastern Seaboard. We’re Eastern, aren’t we? Yeah. So I was bouncing out between them for a good 10,

Leigh Chalker (01:33:47):
15 years. I hope so. Hope

Hayden Fryer (01:33:49):
I got the absolute shits with the larger conventions just because the costs were just, they’re ridiculous for a self-publisher, you can’t make P return on the overheads anymore. And just the costs are even just exhibit is just a nightmare. And yeah, comics really aren’t the focus, most of those larger events. So after Coba finished up, I kind of packed it up and just stuck with the small events and that’s where all the library events kicked off. So comic conversation, comic Gong down in Wollongong. So the librarians are fantastic. If you ever get to do an event with the librarian, any librarians, they’re great. They’re lovely. They will give you tea, they give you space, they literal you run workshops. Yeah, they’re absolutely fantastic. And they run fantastic services as well, which I can never really, well, you can’t appreciate it enough what they actually do. So yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:34:44):
There’s my people. Yeah, man, that is cool. You do see on socials, there’s a lot of things happening at libraries and that around too, whether it’s people and or Dylan Nailer does it, Peter Wilson does it. There’s so many people that go, Dean Rankin does it at schools too, goes and shows people, talks to kids and things like that’s

Hayden Fryer (01:35:11):
Stuff like the books and homes as well, where they’ll go out to all the schools and give ’em workshops or presentations and then hand out books to all the kids, that sort of stuff. I love all those satellite events. Satellite things. Yeah, it’s the grounds. It feels like more on the ground situations. And I’ve always looked at those sort of opportunities. So stuff like, well, I sponsored Trash Orama for a few years as well, which Google Trash, it’s fantastic, but it’s very much a scene. And yeah, I was looking for opportunities like that when I was doing Billy So,

Leigh Chalker (01:35:52):
And

Hayden Fryer (01:35:53):
Zine fairs. I haven’t done ’em for a few years. I feel a little bit out of place these days, but early on, the zine fairs felt like a small community. There was a lot going on in the two thousands, like Newcastle, Sydney, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, I’ve done a lot of small satellite events over the years.

Leigh Chalker (01:36:10):
Yeah, that’s cool, man. I’m going to come to your mate here, Alex, or Sloppy Tunes, Mr. Major Caden could make his money back if he just sold single panel, cut and paste a panel for 30 pages and sell that book for 30 bucks a pop.

Hayden Fryer (01:36:27):
Okay, sorry. There’s two jokes to this

Leigh Chalker (01:36:30):
Worry here. Is there,

Hayden Fryer (01:36:31):
If you’re friends with me on Facebook, I don’t know if the album’s still sitting there, but there’s an album called Snail and it’s about 20 pages I never actually finished. The damn thing of a snail making is a journey to a flower, and it’s pretty much that. Now Alex’s version of it was this fantastic book he did for Supernova, I don’t know, years back. His stand was newspaper top to bottom. He had red paint and just buy my comics Flatted across the damn thing. And on his table he had this one comic, I think it was like a little DL size sort of thing. And it was the same image, the two characters for about 20 pages, whatever it is. Alex will probably question it. And the last page is, I can’t believe this guy just paid five bucks or 10 bucks for us. And he sold out of the damn things and he sold the last one for, what was it, like a hundred bucks, 150 bucks. The sum schmuck.

Leigh Chalker (01:37:24):
Well, we got the man in the background, so maybe he can answer that. But that sounds like a very Alex thing to do because

Hayden Fryer (01:37:32):
Yeah, it was a learning experience that year being next to him on the convention floor.

Leigh Chalker (01:37:37):
Yeah. Yeah, it would’ve been, did you ever meet him before that? Was that one of those, who is this guy and then your great mates by the end of it?

Hayden Fryer (01:37:46):
No, Alex has been in the scene. Well, apparently he’s been in the scene as long as I have. I thought he was actually been in the scene longer, but apparently or something. Yeah, you corrected me on it and I saw him a couple of weeks back, so you can probably type it in here. What year is it, Alex?

Leigh Chalker (01:38:02):
Yeah, it was late nineties, wasn’t it, Alex, if you’re up there. So if you can

Hayden Fryer (01:38:07):
Remember, I know you’re pretty old now, so

Leigh Chalker (01:38:08):
No, he’ll remember. Don’t get him talking mate. We’ll have it’ll just coming through because it’s like I know.

Hayden Fryer (01:38:18):
Can you type that? He’s a two thing appropriate

Leigh Chalker (01:38:21):
Dude. Have you ever text messaged him? It’s like, my God, just to say, Hey, you going mate, to get a small, I’m good, thank you. But it’s like, man, he texts just as much as he talks. It’s like, what? This dude’s a communicator. Yeah, no good dude. Me, he makes me laugh. That fella.

Hayden Fryer (01:38:40):
But yeah, back in the two thousands, there was two forums where 50 a bunch of the community. It’s a congregated.

Leigh Chalker (01:38:46):
Yep.

Hayden Fryer (01:38:47):
50 50. Oh, well I’m over inflating the story

Leigh Chalker (01:38:50):
Sounds better. Over inflated.

Hayden Fryer (01:38:53):
Yeah. So back in the two thousands, there was a couple of different forums. I think there was the A comics one, and then the Comics Australia one, they end up, I think everyone migrated to the pulp faction one for a while and there was a pretty close knit scene at the time. Yeah. I dunno how many people were still operating. Some of ’em went pro, some didn’t. Some just realised fertility of comics and then went on elsewhere to their lives. So I’ve known Alex since then. Oh see, 99.

Leigh Chalker (01:39:22):
Thank you, Alex.

Hayden Fryer (01:39:24):
You old man. So 25 years ago.

Leigh Chalker (01:39:30):
Yeah. Hey, we’re all getting there.

Hayden Fryer (01:39:34):
Back to

Leigh Chalker (01:39:35):
The story,

Hayden Fryer (01:39:37):
Distracted,

Leigh Chalker (01:39:39):
You were talking about people realising that the comics, they didn’t want to do it and they went somewhere else,

Hayden Fryer (01:39:48):
Which is the, I mean, get it. I’ve seen a lot of people sort of burn through the sea with a big, brilliant idea, realise they’ve actually got to do work and then disappear again. And there’s a few people who’ve sort of drift in and out or stayed and seen pretty regularly for the last 20 years that I’ve been in it. And yeah, Alex is one of who sort of disappears for a bit, comes back and he’s always an experience whenever he is around.

Leigh Chalker (01:40:15):
Yeah, yeah, he’s good. Chiche did anyone else? No,

Hayden Fryer (01:40:20):
No, they laughed every time someone picked up the damn book, they laughed and gave him money.

Leigh Chalker (01:40:26):
There you go, Sean. I

Hayden Fryer (01:40:28):
Mean, it could have been embezzling for all I know. Maybe it was money laundering.

Leigh Chalker (01:40:31):
Yeah, but no, but you know what that is. It’s a great idea, man. Just the whole concept. If I could really, and Alex, I know you’re listening, it’s pretty genius just to bang up newspaper on your booth and paint, buy my comics on it and stuff. If no one had ever thought about that before, that certainly would’ve caught attention. And that’s directing people towards you, isn’t it? You know what I mean? People at the time might’ve thought, man, what’s going on here?

Hayden Fryer (01:41:03):
Yeah. I kind of learned a lesson from Alex and Paul Stru where it’s a case of go bold, where you can go, go loud. And obviously I’m not very loud.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:15):
Yeah, no, but mate, that’s all right. You find your way. I mean, you found your way. I mean, God, you’re successful. You’ve been doing it for 20 years. And again, no, look, success is consistent,

Hayden Fryer (01:41:27):
Not successful.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:28):
Are you happy with your successful consistency at this stage you’re happy with? Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (01:41:33):
Yeah. Successfully consistent. That’s definitely a term.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:36):
Yeah. Yeah. No,

Hayden Fryer (01:41:37):
I remember getting called Staal like 10 years ago, so I still dunno if that was an insult or a compliment.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:45):
Okay. Yeah. Alright, well who knows? It’s for you to decipher that one, but no, man, I think sometimes you do have to be

Hayden Fryer (01:41:57):
A little bit crazy.

Leigh Chalker (01:41:58):
Yeah, yeah. You do have to be. I often wonder, because it took me a while, I was getting sober and that between my last comic and this comic that’s coming out and you go through your ups and downs and you do things and it was hard, just hard to get my head together and get my head around along mission. And then when I did it and I got the proof back in my mind, I was like, that’s it. I’m having some time off. And then you know what I did on the weekend, mate? I sat in here for four days, thumbnailing the next issue, and I was sitting here going, I must be mad. You know what I mean? So I guess you do have to have a little bit of that

Hayden Fryer (01:42:47):
In. Yeah, it’s one thing I’ve always found. If everything else around me is going to shit and I’ve got a project to work on, it’s a stable bit of ground while the whirlwinds going on around you. And yeah, I’ve always found that while working on a project, which is, it’s good or bad, you get funnel tunnel vision working on it, but then it’ll get you through some dark points when you’ve got something to focus on. That’s not the shit going on around you. Yeah,

Leigh Chalker (01:43:16):
Well that’s one of the things that chinwag I like to focus on is the creative side man. Because it’s good for mental health wise too, because it’s like you can’t really control every circumstance of your life, you know what I mean? And things.

Hayden Fryer (01:43:33):
It can be a bit of a tight rope on how you deal with it using it that way so you can fall off the rope easily. But then in the same token, it can give you a guiding light through some circumstances if it’s there.

Leigh Chalker (01:43:50):
Yeah, yeah. Well it did for me, dude. But it always has magic comics

Hayden Fryer (01:43:55):
That is magical comic.

Leigh Chalker (01:43:56):
It’s magic comics man. And whoever would’ve thought, hey, and the thing that I’m marvel at too is from having done so many of these chin wags now is how everything is interconnected in its way. I could be talking to someone like I am with you now and Alex, who I’ve known for quite a while now and mates with, has known you for 20. And then you’ve had an unofficial official crossover with Darren Close’s Koo. And a short story in Gang Wars back in 2011 or 12 was the first comic that I did. And then there’s just, it’s amazing. Here’s

Hayden Fryer (01:44:47):
Some controversy. I did actually do a gang war script, but it was never drawn. It is a bit of a spoiler. I did do a gang war script, but yeah, it’s never been drawn.

Leigh Chalker (01:45:00):
And were you to draw it?

Hayden Fryer (01:45:02):
No. Fuck no. There’s a lot of cars in the damn thing. They ain’t driving that crap.

Leigh Chalker (01:45:11):
Yeah, yeah. What is it about cars and motorbikes, man

Hayden Fryer (01:45:18):
And horses, god damn horses, they don’t make sense. They go the wrong direction.

Leigh Chalker (01:45:24):
Yeah. Yeah. I hit one of those marks last year. I never really pursued it, but in the back of my mind, being a big 2000 ad fan, I always just wanted to do a short story in a UK published comic book. You know what I mean? That’s just one of those things that it pops up like, yeah, yeah, I’ll do it if I like it and I got to do it and everything was cool and there was this big seam of horses and you know what mate? There was plenty of tree leaves in front of those horses and horses from being

(01:46:10)
Downhill. I don’t like drawing horses much either. But these are the funny things you think about too. You take it on and you go, oh God, but room for improvement man is animals. So for me, there are things that I know as you know, draw and stuff, like you were saying earlier, you like to improve on things. That’s definitely something I need to improve on is gated animals and how they move and their way of going. Because how I got around that in my comic books was just to make ’em cybernetic animals, man. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Hayden Fryer (01:46:48):
You’re always looking for shortcuts to make it easier on yourself.

Leigh Chalker (01:46:50):
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Nothing better than a shortcut mate. Like save me some time. Not much, but plenty of time. Yeah. So, alright man, what do you got coming up in the future after Bristle Mouth’s Out and that’s already out. That’ll be at the Comex shop coming up soon. You’ve got If Bristle Mouth is at the Comex shop, but your other stuff, if you’ve got any of it left, do you have a website or a Facebook page and you’ve got your Google Drive thing that people can get some of your images and that on and your comic books.

Hayden Fryer (01:47:34):
So the official site, cyber and productions.com, I’ve been meaning to relabel rebrand and it just never happens. So I’m guess I’m stuck with it. You can find me on Instagram. So Hidden and Fry Creative. Usually it’s the sketches, just whatever the hell I’m doing at the time. I usually use some promo. I am on Twitter usually just ranting. Same with Blue Sky and you can find me, there is a Facebook page, but I don’t really maintain it because normally looks at it. I think the Billy one might be still active.

Leigh Chalker (01:48:08):
Okay. Yeah, that’s cool. Alright, we’ll check that out. Like everyone out there, check it out. Go and give him a like and subscribe and that. So mate, as we wind down now, everyone knows where you’re at. Everyone knows about Bristle Mouth and everyone knows about IPI comics and there you go, everyone on there. It’s the instagram.com Hayden Fryer creative for the Instagram link address, whatever they call it. Jump on that. Like follow bba. What I marvel at is who’s the dude in Hayden’s profile? Pick? Who is that dude in Hayden’s profile? Pick the man that took the selfie himself. That’s

Hayden Fryer (01:48:46):
That John Pickle guy, isn’t it?

Leigh Chalker (01:48:48):
Yeah, John Pickle. That’s what I’m thinking.

Hayden Fryer (01:48:50):
His modelling days.

Leigh Chalker (01:48:53):
I liked it. I was like, man, that’s some cool stuff there. So

Hayden Fryer (01:48:58):
Arty. So arty. It’s like an hardest do it.

Leigh Chalker (01:49:01):
I was like, he’s really put some thought into this and then he blew me out of, I was like, damn, he really gave a crack so good. I

Hayden Fryer (01:49:12):
Kept it for 10 years.

Leigh Chalker (01:49:13):
Yeah, yeah, because I didn’t want to do another one. Yeah, man,

Hayden Fryer (01:49:17):
Pretty

Leigh Chalker (01:49:17):
Much. Hey, you’re on a winner there, Hayden. That’s the main thing. Now Hayden, as we wind down the show, bud, one thing I do like to, we’ve established that you’ve been around for a long time. We’ve established that you now have broken the record of more pickles in a chinwag than Alex Major, otherwise known as sloppy tunes for the

Hayden Fryer (01:49:47):
Viewers. Suck it. Alex. Suck a pickle

Leigh Chalker (01:49:50):
There. Alex

Hayden Fryer (01:49:52):
Sucker. Deep fry. No deep fry, no a air fried pickle that might explode on you.

Leigh Chalker (01:49:58):
There you go. Alex, you’ve been challenged, man. Let us know how that goes. Or draw a cartoon. Now

Hayden Fryer (01:50:06):
You had to prompt him on that, didn’t you?

Leigh Chalker (01:50:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hayden Fryer (01:50:09):
He was probably drawing you kind of thing.

Leigh Chalker (01:50:11):
He probably is. Now we know that Billy demon Slayer is Billy demon slayer and that it irks you when there’s a duh in involved in it. So for everyone out there it is Billy Demon’s lab, which was Hayden’s first work, and Hayden’s been pounding away for many, many years doing these comic books. He’s available on socials. He’s a nice cheeky fellow that’s got plenty of life in him and he, and getting better and better and lovely patient. Dude, putting up with me dropping out too. Been wasting time. I think

Hayden Fryer (01:50:51):
That’s just jerky. Alex

Leigh Chalker (01:50:52):
Fried Pickle. There you go. That’s

Hayden Fryer (01:50:54):
Just been a jerky from the side of the road.

Leigh Chalker (01:50:56):
I’m drawing a monkey eating a peanut for your information. Okay, so there we go. I’m waiting to see that

Hayden Fryer (01:51:03):
It’s a normal Tuesday night for you, huh?

Leigh Chalker (01:51:06):
Well man, Tuesdays are pretty weird around comics, you know what I mean? So it’s like we all like Tuesday. So Tuesday’s a good day. If you were sitting down and at a convention and you were, you right now, old Hayden, not saying that you’re old, but in comparison to the question you’ll understand in a second, I’ll dig myself out of this hole. What would old Hayden say to young Hayden if young Hayden walked up to Old Hayden and said, how do I get there?

Hayden Fryer (01:51:42):
You mean after the freaking out of Why the fuck am I looking at myself?

Leigh Chalker (01:51:46):
Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (01:51:47):
Yeah. Fucking quit. You idiot. Go do something else.

Leigh Chalker (01:51:56):
That’s what you’d say.

Hayden Fryer (01:51:57):
Oh, sorry. Did you want something more serious? Get a vocation, go get a real job. We can leave. Go get a trade. Get a trade, go get a real job out there. Go do some manual labour. Go work in a factory. I

Leigh Chalker (01:52:10):
Don’t want someone to come along and be, oh, I want

Hayden Fryer (01:52:16):
Them to be more Join the damn circus. You should join the circus. Join the circus, become a trapeze artist. Really get into the clowning around part of things.

Leigh Chalker (01:52:26):
You got to have fun.

Hayden Fryer (01:52:28):
Yeah, obviously,

Leigh Chalker (01:52:29):
Yeah, you got to have fun, but you look like you’ve had fun, mate. You look like you’re still having fun

Hayden Fryer (01:52:35):
Occasionally.

Leigh Chalker (01:52:36):
Yeah, I reckon a bit more than occasionally, but that’s good. I know

Hayden Fryer (01:52:41):
The comments are very serious these days. I really got to do something more fun. So

Leigh Chalker (01:52:47):
What makes comics serious for you these days?

Hayden Fryer (01:52:52):
Probably the themes actually really got to get back to just telling chokes again.

Leigh Chalker (01:52:56):
And that’s your themes, like what you are doing? Or is that comics in general you find worldwide?

Hayden Fryer (01:53:02):
I feel like I’m in therapy. Probably just the existential dread of every single thing I put out. I mean, really dig into it right

Leigh Chalker (01:53:12):
On the

Hayden Fryer (01:53:12):
Page. It’s just existential dread everywhere.

Leigh Chalker (01:53:14):
Yeah, but that’s good. I like existential dread that shows you care in your creation. Yeah,

Hayden Fryer (01:53:20):
Well the whole being mature and finding a theme in the story and all that sort of jazz. I know I kind of miss just the nothing serious stuff and it’s crap. But man, it was so much fun just putting bullshit onto the page that there’s, there’s less considerations and seriousness involved and it’s a lot more free balling, I guess.

Leigh Chalker (01:53:48):
Pretty sure you’re seeing yourself because you’ve had too many pickles, I suspect that may be the case. Those pickles can get to you after a while. It might be all the,

Hayden Fryer (01:53:59):
If we drag it up, if we drag it for two hours and mean more pickles going to get into the conversation.

Leigh Chalker (01:54:03):
Yeah, no, no, I think we’re pickled, juiced, man.

Hayden Fryer (01:54:09):
No, we can always go for more pickles. Well,

Leigh Chalker (01:54:12):
We could

Hayden Fryer (01:54:12):
Get a whole bunch more jars of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:54:15):
Yeah, yeah. No, I think we’ve probably got the entire state of Queensland’s Woolworth stock.

Hayden Fryer (01:54:24):
You know what? Have you seen attack of the Killer Tomatoes

Leigh Chalker (01:54:28):
A very long time ago

Hayden Fryer (01:54:31):
That but with pickles,

Leigh Chalker (01:54:34):
So attack of the Killer Pickles? Yeah. Not bad, but

Hayden Fryer (01:54:39):
It’s pretty good. I’ll be the ideas, man. You can create the comic. I’ll be the ideas, man. Take the credit. And if I use a pseudonym, I would just call it John Pickles idea by John Pickles. Take a Killer Pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:54:53):
Yeah. Except I’d take artistic ownership and I’d attacker the killer Pickles would be my cat that has passed on rolling around in a stewed jar, barking orders at other pickles. She could be king, queen pickles. So how’s that, Quin? Yeah, I think I like it. Oh Alec. Then Shane’s onto it there too. God, look at what’s happening on s chinwag tonight.

Hayden Fryer (01:55:21):
There’s going to be a whole pickle series coming out now.

Leigh Chalker (01:55:23):
Oh my Lord. It’s definitely a pickles of tho the

Hayden Fryer (01:55:26):
Anthology of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:55:27):
Yeah, Che need to take up a hobby. Maybe standup comedy

Hayden Fryer (01:55:33):
People would be throwing pickles at me the whole freaking time. Why you make one bad crack about a pickle and suddenly there’s a whole bunch of pickles being furniture.

Leigh Chalker (01:55:42):
Yeah, I am starting a new series of comfort comics because everything I work on is kind of a down lately.

Hayden Fryer (01:55:51):
Does it involve killer pickles? It’s got to involve killer pickles. Nothing more comfortable than killer pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:55:58):
Well, killer Pickles could contend with killer tomatoes. I mean there’s a whole world of things out there. What are

Hayden Fryer (01:56:06):
The licences on the killer of tomatoes these days? Yeah, there’s like five films or something.

Leigh Chalker (01:56:10):
Yeah, no, no, I didn’t know that.

Hayden Fryer (01:56:15):
Second one has John George Clooney in it.

Leigh Chalker (01:56:18):
Yeah, you got to stop.

Hayden Fryer (01:56:20):
The second one’s actually pretty good. The second one’s. You know what? Here’s my recommendation for everyone in Comex land. Go out and find Return the kill tomatoes and the sequel, whatever the other sequel is. Return Return to the kill tomatoes or Attack the Kill tomatoes to or escape the kill tomatoes. Just Google kill tomatoes and go track ’em

Leigh Chalker (01:56:39):
Down. I think you’ll probably find that they’re streaming somewhere, man. It’s amazing what you can find on those classic,

Hayden Fryer (01:56:45):
I think the first one’s on Tuby, but I dunno if the sequels are sequels are, they’re shrouded in mystery of tomatoes to tomato.

Leigh Chalker (01:56:54):
Yeah. Yeah, man, look, to be honest with you, all the talk of pickles tonight, mate, I’m almost vegetable out and I’m a vegetarian, so you’ve done your job on me there too, mate. You know what I mean? I might have to starve myself for a couple of days. Just be on water.

Hayden Fryer (01:57:15):
You definitely have to change that safe word now.

Leigh Chalker (01:57:19):
Yeah, I may have to, but I won’t, but oh actually I’ll see. I’ll keep everyone in suspense for next week. We’ll see. But I probably won’t

Hayden Fryer (01:57:30):
That archis, is that a pickle or a killer pickle? Whereas the jar of pickles

Leigh Chalker (01:57:37):
Yet to be determined, probably a farm full determined

Hayden Fryer (01:57:44):
Worth of pickles to squeeze out this squeeze on a couple more pickles out of it.

Leigh Chalker (01:57:49):
We ain’t doing it. Hay. Alright, come

Hayden Fryer (01:57:52):
On. We can easily drag that for two more minutes. Two more minutes of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:57:56):
It’s

Hayden Fryer (01:57:57):
Like a pickle countdown. The countdown of pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:57:59):
Alright, we’re going to do a pickle countdown for two minutes to keep my lovely guests satisfied and to keep everyone

Hayden Fryer (01:58:08):
Send in your pickles. You got two minutes to send in pickle. How many pickles can you get in?

Leigh Chalker (01:58:15):
You know what mate? I’m going to let you, once we hit two hours, I’ll take over. But between now and then, and everyone in the comments section, flood us with pickles. Come on. See how many things, sentences you can add to pickles. Go on, Hayden, you’re off mate. I

Hayden Fryer (01:58:33):
Want to see this. Yeah, let’s rip with the pickle. Pickle, Armageddon, pickles from the sky. Just revelations of pickles. So many pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:58:45):
Keep

Hayden Fryer (01:58:46):
Going.

Leigh Chalker (01:58:47):
You still got a minute 15, mate, you wanted it.

Hayden Fryer (01:58:50):
I have pickle material here.

Leigh Chalker (01:58:53):
Wanted

Hayden Fryer (01:58:54):
Me out here. I got pickle, all these pickles to just run with pickle jokes. How many more pickles can I try and get out of this thing? Is the check completely empty now? I reckon we probably cleared the whole house full of pickles. I

Leigh Chalker (01:59:07):
Dunno. I don’t know. Are you happy now?

Hayden Fryer (01:59:10):
50 seconds, lady Pickle Hop School. Yeah, I can’t wait until someone just posts a jar of pickles in the chat afterwards.

Leigh Chalker (01:59:22):
Very good. Well, I’m going to pull her up. Thank you.

Hayden Fryer (01:59:26):
Hay worries. Thank you for having me. Thank you for the Pickle Chats.

Leigh Chalker (01:59:29):
Yeah, no, that’s cool man. That’s the lovely beauty of Chinwag Man, is I have never have any expectations of any of these episodes. I just come in and I like to see what happens. It’s the fluidity of live streams, man. And just have fun find out people

Hayden Fryer (01:59:47):
Before we do go, if you do end up finding a way to archive this for future reference, I feel so sorry for anyone who’s trying to do any sort of archival stuff and realising you’ve just spent two hours talking about pickles.

Leigh Chalker (01:59:57):
Yeah, well luckily enough mate, there was about 45 minutes to 50 minutes of comic books, man. And yeah, it does get archived. And the funny part is, but it even goes on Spotify, so you’ll be known as the Pickle King and that’s just how it is. So there you go. And all right, so Hayden, thank you

Hayden Fryer (02:00:19):
For the last

Leigh Chalker (02:00:20):
One. You just brought it home to a two hours, so good on your absence Champion, you can take us home. Alright Hayden, so we’ve found out where you’re at. We’ve found out where you can get your comic books. We’ve found out the Bristle mouth will be in the comic shop very soon. It’s available at all good bookstores, comic book shops around Australia now these’s comics in Canberra over the next month, or this month is

Hayden Fryer (02:00:43):
Closing down. I think they wrap up in August. So get in there until Brendan, you love him.

Leigh Chalker (02:00:48):
Yeah, well they’re still doing what I’ve seen. You may be better to explain this, you’re still doing mail orders, but the shop front is closing down, so if people want to get in there, go and give him a big send off man and buy lots of comic books from him and stuff like that. And do your best to support creators, shops anywhere you can that keep the comic book community running. And on another note, as I thank Hayden once again, tonight’s show was enjoyable. It was funny and things happen like live internet going out and things. But one thing I forgot to tell you all last night, last week is there’s a new end to the show and it’s super important to me in particular. And Shane, and we decided about a month ago that because obviously mental health is a huge issue for, well everyone, but myself included and Shane, we speak about it as often as we can on these shows.

(02:01:58)
We reached out to Lifeline, and Lifeline had given us permission to put their phone numbers and contact details, et cetera at the end of the show. Now to anyone out there that is going through things, I have read Rung Lifeline at different times when things have been really bad at all hours of the day and night just to have someone there on the other end of the phone just to pull me back out of that darkness. So please do not think there’s anything silly about it because some of those people helped me immensely and gave me tools to get through a night and to get through a day during my bad period. If you know someone that’s going through a tough time, encourage them to reach out to people. Keep an eye on your brothers and sisters because god damn man, world’s hard. It’s getting harder and we’ve just got to look after each other because circumstances can change quick and we’re better off having support than to be left alone.

(02:02:58)
So that’s a beautiful thing about comics. That’s a beautiful thing about the community. Keep an eye on everyone. Support each other. Have fun, have a laugh, be happy. That’s the main thing. Find peace. Alright, so after that, thank you very much for watching Tuesday and we’ll be back next week, same time, same place, 7:30 PM Don’t forget to like and subscribe the Comex channel anywhere you can find it. Particularly YouTube, Facebook, help it grow, go and support Hayden Fryer. Chinwag is and always will be Made with love. Community is unity and have a very lovely evening. Thank you. And long Live

Hayden Fryer (02:03:42):
Pickles.

Leigh Chalker (02:03:43):
There you go.

Voice Over (02:03:54):
This show is sponsored by the Comics Shop. Check out to Comics Shop to pick up a variety of Australian comics from multiple creators and publishers. All for one flat postage rate. We hope you enjoyed the show. I.