Dr Paul Mason

Voice Over (00:03):
This show is sponsored by the Comics Shop. Welcome to Tuesday Chinwag with your host Lee Chalker, writer, artist, and creator of the comic series Battle for Basel.

leigh Chalker (00:26):
Good day and welcome to a Tuesday Chinwag Do Not Panic because the guest is otherwise held up by technical issues in the background. So you got me sitting in here for a couple of minutes, so I may as well give you a rundown on what Tuesday chinwag is. Good evening, Mr. Cha. All as well that I know of, except for some technical issues. Tuesday Chinwag is based on a couple of prompting questions. Who, what, where, when, why, and how. We rattled through these things. It’s a fluid show. We talk about everything, the guest’s story, the guru and the doctor. Looking forward to this as my nick made, but you got me for a couple of minutes until Paul figures out his little bits and pieces behind the background clamp shell. Let’s go. Woohoo. I like that enthusiasm. Let’s rock and roll. But you got to put up with me for a minute, Jeffrey Beats. Good day all. I’m enjoying these live streams. I came over this channel by accident. Well, it’s a good accident. Not all accidents are good, mate, that this is a good one. So thank you for joining us. Absent. Hello? Yeah, there’s a lot of comments coming in early, so that’s cool.

(01:42)
Hello, good evening, Nat. Thank you for coming back and watching the show. So yeah, like I said, you just got to put up with me for a bit. So tonight’s guest is Dr. Paul Mason. Hopefully this evening we’ll find out exactly what he is a doctor about because God knows I need one from time to time. But what I will do for you when Paul turns up is we usually have this pre-show ritual and because Chinwag is fluid and I just like it that way, I’m going to show you what the pre looking forward to the chinwag tonight. Yes, good stuff. I’ll show you what the pre show ritual is usually about the checklists that we do to make sure the guest is comfortable and some varying other little funny tidbits here and there. So tonight in the background we have Nick Quick Cleary. He’s doing all the comments and stuff, so very big thank you to Quick.

(02:45)
Well, Shane is busy, busy. What else can we talk about? Looking forward to the show. Matt Rice, thank you for turning up, man. There are a lot of comments tonight. I’m really looking forward to. Oh, hello. I believe Sean is correct, isn’t it? I saw her on the Let’s make a comic book the other night. What? It’s chinwag time. It is indeed. What else can I tell you about Chinwag? Oh, here we go. There’s more comments. Make sure you go to 10:00 PM tonight. Also give you the red hot crack for you. I don’t mind a little bit of gas bagging. As you can tell, I’m not too bad talking to myself either from time to time.

(03:31)
Now what have we got happening? Just to keep you up to speed. Now Paul got locked out by passwords because the technical side of things is difficult and it’s not the first time it’s happened. And then we ran into trouble with the camera. There’s no camera, so he’s rebooting his computer and these are all the things that happen on a chinwag. So fluidity. So look, before Paul comes on, what I do want to do is in the next week or so, I have that dropping, which is my first comic book in about two and a half years. Battle for Bustle. Volume two issue one. So you can check that out when it’s released, about a week and a half’s time to two weeks, there’ll be available on the Comex shop. So let me talk to you about the Comex Shop. That Comex shop, which sponsors this show and the other live streams has over a hundred Australian comic books in it.

(04:34)
So it’s an online shop and you can get as many comic books as you want from one to 20 for a flat fee of $9. So cut, sick, don’t buy one, you can buy many. Tell us a bit about beef of B. New issue, Mr. Er. All right, I’ll go back to it. So this has taken me about two and a half years of going through an awful lot of mayhem in my life, going through sobriety, going through a spiritual journey, and I came back to comic books and I’ve told this story as of who I am now as opposed to leaving it behind where I was back then. So I guess it’s a mild reboot, fresh take. Look at the Comex shop. Paul Mason, are you there? And can you hear me good sir? Yes I do. I’m sorry man. That is okay mate. That is okay.

(05:30)
This is the fluidity of the chinwag and I don’t want to argue with you anyway because you’re probably karate chopped me or something like that and I’ll end up having to call a real doctor. So we’re all good bud. Hey, what I was just telling people at the start of the show, you’ve got a whole heap of people saying good day and hellos and all that at the start of the show too. I thought we might do something a little bit different because I like being fluid and on the fly with some of these shows, mate. So we usually have a little bow wow before we start the show, but because people haven’t heard the pre-show chat, I thought we’d have it now and give them an insight into what usually happens before. Alright? And that’ll keep you up to speed as well and just for something funny. That’s great. Alright, so Paul, look, we do try and keep this show relatively pg. I blew that out, it’s all good.

Dr. Paul Mason (06:40):
My F bombs now.

leigh Chalker (06:43):
I blew that out of the water a couple of weeks ago and was so, I dunno if that rule applies, but look, if you’re telling a really good story and it needs that extra over the line, you just go, mate, you just go, don’t stop it. Just let it go man, because always the thing that we want, like the punchline Now it’s a tech grand ain’t tech grand. Yes it is Sean, but we got there mate. We got there in the end, we always do. It’s me

Dr. Paul Mason (07:14):
Notebook full of passwords trying to find a password for a different browser. When my original browser went, oh no, you can’t do this on this browser. I’m like, oh good

leigh Chalker (07:26):
Mate, we got there in the end, we got there in the end. Now Paul, the show is fluid so I can sort of go in any different fashion mate, but anywhere all over the place. Now it’s based on who, what, where, when, how, and why, but it’s your story mate. It’s your opportunity to tell your story from little Paul through to Paul right now that has too many passwords and you can fill us in on all of those details as much as you want. Now you control the narrative and I sit back basically and chat to and talk to you about everything that’s going on and you’re frozen. So there you go. You can hear me though still. Now the other thing I do want to say, there’s two things. We are going to get comments, so there will be questions come at you in stuff from everyone watching. And if I broach on a subject that is a little bit sensitive for any means, alright, because I’m not in the loop with people and stuff and sometimes my mind just goes and I’ve got lots of questions and sometimes I have people look at me like, oh no, I didn’t want to talk about that. The safety word is pickles. So if you yell out pickles or say Lee pickles, then I’ll do it and circumvent this thing. Alright, so I think we’ve got it up to speed, man. How’s that? You cool?

Dr. Paul Mason (09:06):
Yeah, yeah, I’m cool.

leigh Chalker (09:08):
Yeah, right, very good. So mate, now what I’ll do is I’ll introduce you everyone. It’s Dr. Paul Mason in Case Yes. Is here. He’s in the house. Alright, so we’re ready to rock now, Paul, the first question that I always ask ma’am is the existential question and it’s one word and we’ll take it from here. Alright, are you ready? Are you ready?

Dr. Paul Mason (09:40):
Probably

leigh Chalker (09:41):
Last word. We’re good to go. Good to go. Who?

Dr. Paul Mason (09:47):
Alright. Pickles. No, I’m kidding.

leigh Chalker (09:53):
That was early. I hadn’t even had a sip of my drink mate.

Dr. Paul Mason (10:01):
Pickles? No. Who is the question? Who? Just a dude man. Just a dude trying to get by the day at a time. Look after my family and it’s keep my hands up and try not to get brain damage. I think that’s who just, I draw, I write, teach I live, I love. Yeah, that’s a horrible answer. I got nothing. Who’s hard? Who is something that you’re just trying to figure out day by day? I dunno if I’ll figure it out, but I’ll do my best.

leigh Chalker (10:44):
Yeah, yeah. Well the who, look man, it’s an honest answer. I like that. Honesty is a good policy.

Dr. Paul Mason (10:52):
That’s all I can do.

leigh Chalker (10:53):
It’s a journey, man. It’s a journey and you’ve been on a journey from what I can put together in reading your comics and stuff like that. And I mean, you’re an athlete, you’re a doctor, you’re teaching, you’re doing all of these things. So you’re a busy dude man. And you’re obviously a Chicago Bulls fan, so

Dr. Paul Mason (11:18):
It’s funny people say that,

leigh Chalker (11:22):
Thankfully a guy that isn’t a pickle farmer. Oh, Jeffrey, alright.

Dr. Paul Mason (11:31):
No, the Chicago Bulls thing, it’s not that I’m a fan of the team per se. I mean it’s obviously a bit a nostalgia. I remember in the nineties playing basketball in school time and stuff like that, but no, I watched a Daco the last dance during the pandemic and I watched it at least two or three times over. And I guess there were certain mindsets in that that I dug. But in particular there was, in the original documentary, there were missing Luke Longley who was the Aussie who played on the second threepeat that the Bulls were able to do with Michael Jordan. And Australia’s story did a two-parter that you could probably find on the A, BCI view where they followed up with Luke Longly after all these years and they talked to him about being on that team and he had some interesting thought processes of how he was when he was competing, what he had to be in order to be on that team. And especially working with guys like Michael Jordan who are pretty intense from all accounts. And then what that mindset became once it was all over and some of the things that he said kind of resonated me with me. Now it’s not something that when I stopped sort of competing or at least competing was done with me.

(13:14)
I guess there was still elements of me that the analysing never stops. So Luke was talking about some of those aspects. Now he dissolved a marriage and took it out on other people when his analysing was no longer there, he started to either internalise it or he’d externalise it onto other people. And that’s not me, I don’t do that, but I know that I’m still always trying to seek that level of improvement in whatever I’m trying to do. If that doesn’t sound wanky. But for instance, with martial arts, right? I did five world championships and I competed for 20 years and there was a point when I was in a tournament last year and I decided that that was it for me. I was fighting dudes half my age and I thought, this is getting silly and I don’t enjoy it anymore. Well I do, but I don’t, you know what I mean?

(14:17)
There’s things in my head that I know I can and can’t do anymore with the arthritic hip and bits and pieces, but I can be in a room and see someone, like if I’m in a gym for instance, and someone goes up to the heavy bag and I see them put their hands up, put their feet into a position, they throw one punch and I can, from across the room in my peripheral vision, not paying attention to ’em, I can still tell you three things I did wrong. So it’s just that kind of thing. So I guess the bulls is less about the team and more about the attitude or the reminder of whatever.

leigh Chalker (15:00):
And here’s Alex Maj, the bulls suck. They beat my beloved jazz. Oh, this will be an interesting chat. Yes, it will be Alex and Squish squish to the jazz mate not being good enough.

Dr. Paul Mason (15:17):
Yeah, well I dunno.

leigh Chalker (15:19):
Yeah, I know. I just like playing with Alex and for the moment jazz fans, I know nothing about them other than they’re from Utah. Yeah,

Dr. Paul Mason (15:27):
I was going to say that. Utah. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that was where Carl Malone played in the nineties, but I could be wrong. I dunno. Yeah,

leigh Chalker (15:36):
Yeah, man, I remember Carl Malone. I think he’s a bit of trivia while we’re on basketball. Not that I follow it too much, I’m a bit more of an NFL man

Dr. Paul Mason (15:48):
Game.

leigh Chalker (15:49):
I think Carl Malone is the number one, the highest scoring basketballer in history was he is more than Jordan and stuff like that. But man, I also watch the Chicago Bulls documentary on Netflix a few years ago and I got an awful lot out of it as well, how dedication can be really singularly minded, you know what I mean? And you can attribute it to just about any facet of life really. I guess the other thing, I didn’t know much about Luke Longley, but I was aware that he was in the second part of the three Pete and didn’t realise that he obviously had some personal, I guess some mental health sort of issues and vibes with how to emote himself and his feelings and stuff. And you just talking about that. I’ve been through that myself mate, and I’m still going through it. So I’m glad for Luke to come out on the other side and be more positive and things and anyone else that goes through mental health, there’s plenty of places that you can go and people to talk to if you’re not feeling a hundred percent that can try and put you on the right path and do the best thing you can.

(17:13)
We are very X myself and siz are, and the rest of the crew are like mental health is very important, mate. We all have battles with that at different times, whether it’s I guess imposter syndrome or not feeling as good as we can be or we’re not the people we want to be and stuff, but it’s, yeah, everyone’s special. You’re unique so when you realise that things are good. Now Paul, obviously with your martial arts man and you just knew it was time other than the arthritic hip mate, you just knew it was time to, I better hang the belt up mate. You know what I mean? I’ve got some other things to do or what natural feeling,

Dr. Paul Mason (17:58):
Not necessarily the martial arts, but just the competition stuff. As I said, I was in a tournament and I came away with a bronze, but I just boxed, I mean occasional kick. So I was limited in the tools that I had available to me. You never know if there was an opportunity where the world opens up a bit more. If there’s another world championship, I have the money, there’s a seniors division or veterans or whatever, and it seems doable, then I would consider it. But as it stands, I realised 2017 I had the opportunity to compete. I was assistant coach, I was the sparring coach and the tournament was in the Netherlands and at the time I was covering in an acting art direction, lecturer role at uni. So I was working full time and I had a kid fan deadline every couple of months, so I had to make a decision. I was going into tournaments, drawing pages, minutes before I had to go and fight or finishing off a lecture or something like that.

(19:27)
So I made the decision that I trained the team up until they had to leave country and then I didn’t go, I stayed back so I could supervise third year film projects and try and do a good job in the role that I had and sort of preserved some of my sanity at the same time. So afterwards, and then when the pandemic hit I was training and I just had the urge one day of, or I just had the, I guess what’s the term I’m looking for? When you’re enlightened, something comes to you. You know what I mean? That’s thought in my head training in my, I went out everyone else and rated sort of fitness equipment and got a heavy bag and set it up in my garage or whatever, and I thought I was training for a fight that I was probably never going to have and it was silly thinking about the way that we fight in a tournament setting when it can be completely, well, it is completely different when you’re, you’re fighting or you’re practising or you’re training from a traditional martial art or a self-defense scenario, so you’re no longer looking for points or you’re no longer doing certain techniques that are going to be beneficial to you from a sports angle because it is a game in a sense, it is a sport.

(20:51)
So rather than focus on that aspect, I just pivot to something else that is my strength. Much like if you’re doing comic book work, you stretch yourself as far as you can and you always keep seeking possibilities, but you always have to have that level of perspective to be able to work within your means so that you are optimising what you’re able to achieve at the time then. So it’s that kind of, I guess that process. But martial arts, I still train martial arts. I did a few recent seminars, one with the UFC champ that won on the weekend, Alex Pereira, so it’s nice to sort of get out there and flex a little bit. We did, that wasn’t the TaeKwonDo stuff, that was more of the kickboxing stuff, so I got to jump around and do a few things there. So I’m always going to be doing it. I’ll do it until I’ve, I can’t physically move no more.

leigh Chalker (21:59):
Yeah, yeah. No man. Obviously that’s something you’ve done since you were a little fella as well, little Paul was doing it or was that something that you got into in your teens?

Dr. Paul Mason (22:11):
Yeah, pre-teen, say about 10 or 11 years old even, I mean before that little Paul did some boxing, but little Paul was a souk. Little Paul didn’t like getting punched in the face and the boxing gym that I was going to at the time, like A-P-C-Y-C, we’d jump on the bus and catch it down the cooling gutter and go to the PCYC there. And I was in year four or year five and yeah, it wasn’t for me at the time, but after trying, I tried football for a bit, good at tackling, not really good with the ball skills, tried soccer for a bit, good at tackling, but not very good with the ball skills and then

leigh Chalker (23:02):
Seems to be a theme popping up here, mate.

Dr. Paul Mason (23:05):
Yeah, not to get too deep into it, but living in a sort of, before we met my dad, who’s really my stepdad, we were in a pretty tough situation for many years and I decided that self-defense and not being able to handle myself, I wanted to sort of rectify that. So I got into martial arts when I was 11, 11, 12. That’s age, that kind of period where I think most people, whatever you are, sort of into that kind of solidifies in a way of, I was reading comic books and getting into martial arts and watching Bruce Lee films and I’ve been doing that ever since.

leigh Chalker (23:57):
Yeah, no man, that’s perfect. That’s, you’re obviously impassioned about your martial arts. I won’t go into too much detail either, but I grew up by no fault of my lovely mother who worked her butt off for me to get me through school and that, but I grew up in housing commission homes in a pretty rough neck of the woods back in the early mid eighties up here in Townsville. And yeah, we didn’t have martial arts per se, but we had soccer and football and I totally get the whole wanting to be physical and feel like you were, I guess physically capable of handling yourself if ever yourself or my mom. And that was threatened at any stage. So I totally get that man and sport. Look, the other thing is too, Paul, I mean from what I know of sport, I mean I haven’t played it since probably late twenties, mid to late twenties. The discipline that you learn from sport particularly, I’ve never done martial arts and stuff, but other friends of mine that have done it, they’re constantly telling me that lessons that they’ve learned, you know what I mean? They can apply to everything that they’re doing, whether it be life or whether it be their careers, et cetera. So I think that’s a pretty awesome thing. Back flip barky. Rosie is going to bed. Does anyone want me to bring her to say goodnight?

Dr. Paul Mason (25:54):
That’s my partner. Yeah, if you can hear me, you can bring, yeah,

leigh Chalker (26:01):
Absolutely. Man, that dude Michelle is fluid. It’s always good to bring people in to say good day and goodnight and all that sort of stuff. Oh, I love it, man. It’s cool.

Dr. Paul Mason (26:13):
Amanda is my assistant editor and sometimes writing collaborator with here. She’s Rosie. Can you see her? She on camera.

leigh Chalker (26:23):
I see Rosie. Look at her. Beautiful.

Dr. Paul Mason (26:29):
Hello?

leigh Chalker (26:30):
What’s happening, Rosie? Are you good? You’re going to bed? Oh, what’s got a seed there or something?

Dr. Paul Mason (26:36):
I think she’s eaten seed. It’s a bride.

leigh Chalker (26:41):
Oh, look at it. Go. That’s her snack before the curtain comes down over the cage, eh?

Dr. Paul Mason (26:47):
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right.

leigh Chalker (26:49):
How old Rosie then?

Dr. Paul Mason (26:51):
She’s probably our age. True. Yep. Absolutely. She was a rescue bird. She came into the vet. Yeah, she came into the vet several hundred grammes overweight. Their natural weight is around about the two to 300 grammes and she was like 500 grammes, 500 plus with a lot of fatty loss. Has

leigh Chalker (27:19):
She been eating the wrong seed or something like that?

Dr. Paul Mason (27:23):
I think whoever her previous owners were that maybe dumped her in the park were feeding her biscuits and sandwiches and stuff like that, like human food. And she was morbidly obese, so we ended brought her home. She went through an operation. It was on Totally wild, by the way, if you remember that show.

leigh Chalker (27:46):
I do remember. Totally wild. Yeah. Well, Rosie’s winning everyone over here, Paul and Gday to Dave die. So back to Rosie of rescue.

Dr. Paul Mason (27:55):
So Rosie, Rosie came to us and we put her on a strict diet, looked after a big cage, gave us some place to be loved. And it wasn’t long after our previous rescue bird Cheel, who’s a yellow cockatiel, she was also a rescue that her owners had dumped at the vet when they didn’t want to pay a bill. So Rosie’s now back down to a regular weight and was given the thumbs up by the vet recently, all the feathers. Good, cut up all the veggies and look after her. We get up and do that every morning. So yeah, she’s,

leigh Chalker (28:37):
That’s big.

Dr. Paul Mason (28:38):
Good companion

leigh Chalker (28:40):
Looking after a bird, saving a lovely piece of nature’s life. Years ago I had a hand reared rainbow Laura, keep man called Murphy. And man, I loved birds. My granddad was a bird keeper, and I was lucky enough years ago to get a hand reared rainbow roe and oh man, this bird used to sit on the collar of my dogs and walk around. And you love man? Oh mate used to. Oh, the thing is it blows my mind about birds is man, they’re the most amazing problem solvers. You know what I mean? I used to set up things for Murphy to spend time working out and you’d be off doing something else. So whether it was drawing or reading or something. And then next thing you’d hear, you’d walk out and problem solved and you’d be like, what? Oh, there you go. From Matt Rice. Did Rosie make an appearance as part of flock?

Dr. Paul Mason (29:46):
Yeah, actually all the birds that feature in flock and will eventually feature more prominently in the subsequent issues when I finish them are all based on real birds. So Rosie the gala, of course. Chisel the cockatiel. Yes. Chucky’s a blue Quaker that passed away, sadly, a number of years ago. It was my partner’s bird. And there’s another bird who’s a friend of ours that’s a gang gang too named Rocco. Rocco is like a Pokemon because the only word it knows how to say is its own name. But yeah, what you were saying resonates. I’m in the same,

leigh Chalker (30:34):
They’re amazing creatures, man.

Dr. Paul Mason (30:37):
This is actually, here we go.

leigh Chalker (30:39):
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Paul Mason (30:41):
This is Cheel.

leigh Chalker (30:43):
Yeah,

Dr. Paul Mason (30:44):
Cheel is a yellow female cockatiel. She’s a bit more angry than Rosie probably because it’s her bed, but she’s,

leigh Chalker (30:54):
You’re on tv, mate. You shouldn’t be angry. You should be happy. Look at you. You’re a star.

Dr. Paul Mason (31:01):
She already knows she’s a star.

leigh Chalker (31:05):
Oh man. Oh, there you go. I’ll sit up here. I’ll keep eye

Dr. Paul Mason (31:10):
Films. And sorry, what gallery exhibitions She’s been in numerous things and it doesn’t seem to phase her. She’s still a primadonna regardless of what she’s in.

leigh Chalker (31:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s cool. That’s cool. No, I’m just looking at her there, man. She’s chilling around doing a little puff up and little of the feather. Yeah. Well, man, I like my bird so much that my drawing chair is the old clamshell Cheel, my drawing chair. I’ve never changed it because Murphy used to take bites out of the, which he was cranky and it’s ratty and it’s fallen apart. But I still like to think that Murph was sitting there. I like birds too.

Dr. Paul Mason (32:10):
When was in the paper, came out and did something about Kid Phantom when it first started, acquaintances with Greg Capullo, and he sent me a photo and it was him in his studio with a cock tail on his shoulder too, doing the same kind of photo position. So I think a lot of artists, whether it’s cats or birds, or in his case for a while, he had a few sugar gliders that used to chew the chair and the walls and stuff while he would draw dogs as well. I think being such a solitary pursuit at times, it’s nice to have a companion even if they’re just present.

leigh Chalker (32:52):
Yeah, I agree, man. I, I’ve got two dogs, they’re in here with me and the cats are inside. I’ve got cats these days. I wish I could have birds again, but unfortunately it’s, yeah, the cats really inside and they have their place too, man. They’re cool. That’s cool. Animals. Look at us. Go mate. Talking about all see so much happening there. Resonate in left, right, and centre

Dr. Paul Mason (33:19):
Derailment, but that’s okay.

leigh Chalker (33:21):
Yeah, it’s all right, man. This is the fluidity of the chinwag, Paul. There’s no real structure, man. It’s just two dudes talking about things they enjoy, mate. So I appreciate it. Yeah, and that’s how it is, mate. Let’s take you back to little Paul and what was it and what was your first thing that drew you into the world of comics? Because you started off with your martial arts and comics you said at the same time. So what was the thing that you picked up that really caught your eye?

Dr. Paul Mason (34:02):
I mean, when I think about it, when I was a kid, I remember for a while there we couldn’t stay at home. My mom and I had to leave, and for a while we were staying with mom’s friends. I would’ve been in maybe year two or year three, and I knew at that point I always wanted to draw. We used to draw stuff in class. I think Batman, Adam West reruns were on television at the time, and every day for year one or kindy journal time, we used to have to write or draw something about the day. And every day I would just draw Batman, beating up some villain ad nauseum until my teachers got sick of it. I recall one day it would always be the setting, the Batmobile would be there, Batman and Robin and X would be getting a Sno patch at ’em. And one day I did one where they were both like this on the hood of the car and not being able to find any crime. So I knew that I always wanted to be a cartoonist, not really knowing what that was, but just knowing that they drew for a living.

(35:21)
I do remember on Careers Day though, having to draw what we wanted to be, and I drew a cop wanting to be a cop, but then realising that the drawing of the cop was probably better than wanting to actually be one. Anyway, we couldn’t live at home. We were living with friends. They didn’t have a television. They had a fish tank in place of a television, so you could just wash the fish. But they also had a pile of phantoms old sort of through phantoms that I got a hold of and was flicking through and what are these? And then as just sort of progressed in primary school, school, libraries, and even sort of local libraries, you could find asterisk and Tin Tin quite quickly. And I was always kind of drawn to them. And then eventually, along with cartoons being on Saturday morning and the X-Men Animated series, and by that stage there was a young guy in class who I was friends with who also liked to draw, and we used to draw a lot of Nickelodeon stuff or Marvel stuff. He would bring in comic books to read during reading time. So then I would start picking up comic books from the news agent or the local secondhand bookstore. There was a really good one at one point in cooling gutter, they must have had a connection with some sort of warehouse overseas so they could get in brand new direct edition, direct market comics for, and they would just sell ’em for $2 50.

(37:13)
Hello. So I used to get pocket money, save it up, and then go in and grab a handful of comics. So I guess that, yeah, I just would just keep buying them. I mean, I only stopped buying ’em regularly sort of mid to late nineties when I was a big Spider-Man fan. So when the Clone saga had finished and it had gone on way longer than it should have kind lost a bit of interest and then pocket money you could only afford, what do I get, Kung fu lessons, comic books. So I didn’t really pick up buying new standard comic books again until I was in uni and working. But I’ve always sort of just gravitated towards those sorts of comic books. I mean, I haven’t read a regular sort of monthly edition comic book in, I don’t know, 10 to 15 years or so. But you occasionally flick through something or put something up. But yeah, I guess that’s where it started off when I was little and looking for some sort of escapism.

leigh Chalker (38:36):
Yeah, yeah. No, well mate, comic books have that beautiful ability too, and I really enjoyed the fact that a lot of people that are listening now and watching in past present, future 3D, four D five D, all those sorts of dimensions, and that would love the fact that Phantom was your man to begin with and so much of your work now is Phantom as well. So Sean Che has just sent a question for you, mate. Was Batman’s sort of self therapy or comforting in that situation you were in?

Dr. Paul Mason (39:17):
To be honest, I think by the time I was getting into reading the American say mainstream superhero books, I was already out of that situation because it wasn’t until I was out of that situation and I’d met my stepdad and I was just starting to buy Spider-Man comics at that point because I was getting, and then I was able to have a normal kind of childhood of pocket money and doing chores for pocket money and that sort of thing. I had to become self-sufficient as a kid. And my mom was just like what you were saying was doing her best and single mom and trying to raise me under the circumstances and protect me, but you can’t protect people all the time.

(40:24)
I grew up with a lot of reruns on television and comics were at that point I’d say, when newspaper strips and you kind of have to grow up quick is what I’m saying. So by the time I was maybe 10 or 11 and out of that situation, that’s when I was buying the Spidermans off the shelf or I was reading Dead Devil Man Without Fear graphic novel from the library. And I mean Batman specifically, I was more into him from other media like the cartoon series and the movies rather than the comics. I think one of my first Batman comics I bought was when I was going to my first World Championships in oh three, and if you remember Borders and they used to be around, I went in and I picked up long Halloween and there was something about Tim sales artwork that I thought, well, this is chunky. This will last the flight to Greece and

leigh Chalker (41:33):
Did it. No, no.

Dr. Paul Mason (41:39):
I was the nerd reading the long Halloween on the plane, and then when I ran out, I read The Art of War.

leigh Chalker (41:47):
Oh yeah, sun Sue.

Dr. Paul Mason (41:49):
Yeah, sun Sue. Yeah. So Batman specifically, no, but I do recall there were times where when my dad was in, when my mom, I was going to say funny story, it’s not really that funny. My mom got proposed to on Christmas would’ve been mid nineties by my dad, and two days later he was in a hospital in a coma. And over the course of that month, whatever, the doctors still don’t really know what had occurred, but they’d had to cut him right open and flush his blood three times, and he died several times as they say, oh, mom had to go in and say goodbyes a few times during the course of that month. It was insane. But I remember being taken into the hospital up to intensive care to visit him at one point when he had woken up and was recovering from surgery, and I hated hospitals and I still do to this day. I struggle with ’em. So I had my face buried in a Spider-Man magazine. I recall it’s the issue where Juggernaut goes to kill Mme. Webb. It was an early John Metre Jr. I just remember it vividly reading that comment because it distracted me from the tubes and everything going into Dad’s the Scar and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, it’s funny what you remember years later, certain stories.

leigh Chalker (43:41):
Yeah, it’s the vivid imagery that you remember too from childhood. I will just say that, Paul, that I am going to remember about you after this interview that when you say I’ve got a funny story, I might just hold back on like, oh, okay,

Dr. Paul Mason (44:07):
We laugh about it now because you can distance and time from it, but back in the day it’s probably not the funniest

leigh Chalker (44:17):
Thing. Oh mate, that would’ve been traumatic as one of the happiest moments of your mom and your life. I guess suddenly that happens. But I’m starting to see how the escapism of comic books and the physicality man and the dropping into that, the stream of conscious into the zone, like the physicality of the martial arts and stuff has obviously helped you from a young man get you through some tough times, man. And I’m assuming that because found that I’ve been through myself some difficult times over the years and people that have watched this show for a bit had know that I’m a really big believer in that creativity has a healing factor to it. Even if it’s just sitting down doing things for fun and painting, gardening, cooking, whatever. Your form of creativity is amazing when you just can just let things go for a little bit to give yourself some freedom and some thought, you know what I mean? To be with yourself and just find a little bit of peace, you know what I mean? Before you have to go back out into the outside world and things because I think peace is a nice thing, so it’s good to find it. Anyway. Can I have to tell you that I loved the long Halloween as well, and in recent years, I nearly fell over when I saw it, but I came across, they did black and white editions of the Long Halloween and the second one.

Dr. Paul Mason (46:11):
The second one,

leigh Chalker (46:12):
Yeah, and they did black and white hardback version. So yeah, they took Tim Sailors artwork, stripped it of all the colour, obviously black and white. And man, I’ve gone over those comic books so many times looking at it in black and white. I just like black and white. I love all comics, mate, but I’ve got a little thing for black and white.

Dr. Paul Mason (46:32):
Yeah, I did too. And it’s funny, if I had my way, I’m working on a book right now, and if I had my way, I’d just keep it black and white, but I know that they want it in colour or at least portions of it. It’s a big argument in the phantom world, and I kind of laugh at the, I shouldn’t laugh at other people’s opinions, but they back it up with such personal opinions and because they feel it so strongly, they mistaken feelings as facts. And when you look at, they say, oh, if it’s not in colour, then it’s not going to sell well because comics that should be in colour, they sell well. And it’s like, yes, until you say that most mango is in black and white and are outstripping all the colour books. So what’s your argument?

(47:22)
It’s an aesthetic thing. It’s something that you’ve probably grown up with that’s going to influence it, or maybe as a creator, the appeal of just seeing the incline and the artist’s hand is interesting. Tim sells case, he was colorblind, so you could see what he would see is the closer to his particular aesthetic in a way. So these arguments are quite funny. I feel like in some cases though, I do enjoy seeing certain works in colour. It depends on the colour treatment and the approach that the artist has taken. If there’s a simpatico element to it depends on the work, I suppose. But yeah, it’s like what Rinka used to say, you can ruin art with bad colouring. It’s funny how for a long time with American books in that sense of how colour was the last line or the last thing considered or left to the printers to kind of deal with. And yet it’s the first thing you notice when you look at the work, same as lettering, people palm off lettering and treat it as an afterthought and have less consideration of it. But what’s the first thing you look at when you go to read the book?

leigh Chalker (48:55):
Yeah, yeah. I mean there’s art form in all through comic books and some of it is hidden. I’ve got mates, I’ve read my fair share of coloured comics, obviously I have a particular appreciation of black and white. I like drawing black and white. I find that, oh, here we go, comics feeling flock is awesome. Fact flock is awesome. Very good. There you go. I like the fact that black and white is really, there’s nowhere for the person that’s drawing to go if you make a mistake, it’s so concentrated that if you make a mistake, it’s obvious. It’s a bit of a thrill, you know what I mean, to do that artwork. But when you come to colour, I’ve always found for me, when I read comic books, and I notice colour too, when it seems to be someone else doing the colours on someone else’s artwork. Now I’m picturing colorists like big oil or mob bosses with some of your work, are you happier with your coloured work when you are doing the colours or when someone else is doing the colours and we’ll come back to that comment and the tick after you.

Dr. Paul Mason (50:22):
That’s a good question. I’ve always found colour tricky, and I say it to students all the time, that colour is tricky. I feel like it’s one of those things in some cases where some student, you dunno what you don’t know. So sometimes I feel like colouring is a lot good and bad. Inking in a way that you, or at least the attitude of what an Alex Toth might consider when it comes to that element of the craft where you could spend, or at least he used to say, I spent half my life trying to figure out what to put into a drawing and then half my life trying to figure out what to leave out. So I feel like that’s where I’m at in terms of colour.

(51:11)
I like to approach colour in a very simple way, but I know that in some cases I feel like I look at some of my old work and well, I definitely know some of my old work that I’ve overdone the colour, and even in some recent work, I feel like maybe the colour is a bit too much. So I’m always trying to figure out a less more approach. Sometimes I see other people’s colours on my work and I think, well, those aren’t necessarily the choices that I would make in most cases. If it’s like a Justin Randall, when Justin Randall coloured Elrich Kid Bone War, I knew that they weren’t choices that I would’ve made, but there was some lovely scenes that I felt elevated the work immensely, particularly where it took me a long time to, or whether I even felt comfortable by the end of the work doing that work. So I felt like you were saying earlier, I could probably hide behind some adjusters colours and it would turn out okay.

(52:23)
So I always have, sometimes it’s very rare that I colour or do something that I go, oh, that’s exactly how I intended it in my head. I have an approach to comics in general that’s very much like, well, I’ll do better next time and that’s, I’ll do my best now with what I have available to me, but if it doesn’t turn out the way that I intended it, well then I’ll do better next time. And I think you could have other people’s attitude could be, oh, well that suck, and they stop. So I think at least with the, I’ll do better next time, you persevere and you learn and you continue to try to improve on what you’re doing. So yeah,

leigh Chalker (53:12):
A hundred percent, man, that’s a good positive attitude to leave off a page. For example, now we’ve got Sean Chase, she’s got, I’ve always felt colour should be another character like backgrounds. It’s there to help set tone and tell the story. If it’s not doing that, probably better to not include it.

Dr. Paul Mason (53:33):
Yeah, that’s true. Colour definitely has to serve the story. Everyone has to serve the story in some way, shape, or form. And there’s plenty of times where I feel like it either doesn’t serve the story or it even is at odds with perhaps what the pencil are and or Inca if it’s the same person or a different person what they intended.

(53:57)
Sometimes people have a blanket approach to their colouring, which is not a one size fits all to it. Some people don’t consider how the line work interacts with the approach to colour or even where the line or the light source should be in respects to what the intended focal point or readability of the page should be with that sort of approach too. So yeah, definitely colour needs to enhance the story in many ways. Some people approach the colour in a realistic manner, and I feel as though you can do that, but I feel like colour should help reinforce aspects of the storytelling down to an emotional level. So where applicable colour and lighting should help to enhance or pull back whatever it needs to do in that particular moment of time for the sake of the storytelling that you’re trying to achieve at that particular moment.

leigh Chalker (55:11):
Yeah. Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me, man. It adds to things bucket tool. Now, Paul, I’m going to double back a tick. We just had two comments. One was from Ryan O’Connor. If s can bring that up in the background because scissors, here we go. Letters from Ryan O’Connor, letters are icons and comics is the language of iconography. So that’s one comment from Ryan, and there was another one that popped up there too, about From Hell from Matt Rice. So I think Matt likes from Hell’s approach of releasing in black and white and a separate colour version. Guess that covers all bases for everyone that likes both fields, I guess.

Dr. Paul Mason (56:00):
Yeah, I dig that. I mean, some stories, I feel like the storytelling can be enhanced by colour in a way that if you’ve got changing scenes, perhaps changing points of time, you can visually clarify those very simply by the colour choices that are made. So I kind of appreciate those. The two main problems I often see, or at least repel me from colours are one where all the colours are done correctly. And by that I mean if you’re reading in a mainstream book, Superman’s capes red costume is blue sky’s blue grass is green, that bores me to tears.

(56:56)
The other one where I feel like they’re throwing everything at the page to the point of not understanding where your focals should be. So the highlight, everything is given equal treatment in regard highlight regardless of how close it is to the light source. So it’s like why is the grass glowing the same as the guy’s chest and gun and face, and what should I be looking at? You know what I mean? So if as an Inca you are trying to replicate a texture by way of line work, then the colouring should also take into consideration what the texture should be. So why is the cloth glowing the same as the metal or the wood in that scene? So that’s my other pet peeve there, the overuse of those elements.

leigh Chalker (57:57):
Yeah, no, that makes a hundred percent sense. I mean, you do have to take into consideration textures, light sources. I mean, man, again, that’s just a primary example of how much thought goes into not just even putting down the synopsis of the comic book and story. You’re telling all of the little levels that you’ve got to go through to make all of these languages fit in the translation of things so that the viewer reader can enjoy them. Man, I want to, excuse me. You mentioned before the Aldridge kid, and that was the first time that years ago for Gestalt that I’d heard of yourself and Christian D. Reed I believe was the writer, and Justin Randall was the colorist, and that was one of the first times that I’d seen you. Did you have previous work before the Eldridge Kid, or was that your first time punching out a comic like that? What was your story coming into comic books? Man,

Dr. Paul Mason (59:19):
After my, would’ve been my second world championship in 2005. I just finished a uni degree. My first uni degree had a fine arts major attached, and a lot of the work that I was doing was, excuse me, still dabbling in comic material. So I wanted to draw and I was looking for work and I fell into cartooning. I was a cartoonist for a little while there, not in the sense that I sort of consider the old school Jack Kirby term of cartoonist now of a writer and artist of their own work, but more of the event cartooning and that sort of thing, or doing kids workshops and stuff like that.

(01:00:09)
In the meantime, I made a point of going back to the news agent and buying comic books again, just to see what was out there and what was doing. And I’d had a very nice rejection letter from Joe Sada in 2004 back when Marvel was still accepting submissions, but they were the first comic pages I had done since I was a child. So it’s kind of like the opposite of everything that you should do. It’s had fully rendered pencils and stuff just kind of exploding out of panels, and there’s still some fun elements of it, but it was really like it wasn’t the lesser more approach, and I would’ve been the old comics kingdom and was sort of investigating what sort of Australian comics were out there at the time. I found these bunch of guys who were doing indie comics, so I started doing a little bit of work with them. After a while, there was a bit of a falling out, but while I was working with those guys, I met Chris Sequeira, who’s now the editor of I I think you may be chat to him in the past. I

leigh Chalker (01:01:32):
Have, yes.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:01:34):
So I met Chris at a con and through these guys in 2000, I want to say eight. And by then I’d done my animation degree and was going into my honours degree. I’d done a few little indie comics here and there, but nothing serious. The honours project, I started studying comics and I made my own comic, which was a soldier legacy

leigh Chalker (01:02:07):
From memory. Sorry to interrupt, you just brought me back there. That was on a, I first came across that, now you mentioned that on a TV documentary or an ad or something like that. Yeah,

Dr. Paul Mason (01:02:25):
So that was a lucky thing where I had gotten my books printed through that particular printer, and Chris, Chris was working with that printer because printer, their publishing arm in comics was where Chris was doing his Sherlock Holmes series. So I met Chris

leigh Chalker (01:02:46):
That was a Jefferies because the Black was doing that. Yeah, I love that Sherlock Holmes series, man. Yeah, me

Dr. Paul Mason (01:02:55):
Too. Some of my first published work was in that series. I did a pinup for Chris, but he was really encouraging. And I’d also, at that, I’d started doing, I did some sample pages and I was still working on Soldier Legacy at the time, the first issue, and I decided I took it, oh yeah, someone convinced me to go and talk to Todd McFarlane, and I laughed at him and said, why would I do that? That’s absurd. And he made a point of saying, well, when Todd was trying to get at his attention, he cornered in a bathroom with his sample material, wouldn’t let him out until he looked at his pages. So I’m like, oh, well, I guess that it won’t bother him if I went and got some feedback from him. And he spent a good half an hour with me, held up his queue, did some drawings on my pages, on the plastic sleeves to talking about pushing the pose and that sort of stuff.

(01:03:55)
So it was really encouraging. So Soldier Legacy was my first sort of comic book that I did, and then I did a set, I think I did the second issue at that point, and Baden at Black House said, would you like to join the Stable? So that was nice. I started doing Soldier Legacy books with Black House, and in 2011 he was approached by an ad company that they were looking for an IP to use in a Youi insurance commercial where this guy is in a comic store and he is talking about this comic book, and they liked the Soldier. I think at the time, it was back when Gestalt was still, they were early, they’d been going for a couple of years, but the Deep had just come out. So it was sort of around that era. The Deeper was getting pushed as a cartoon a couple of years after that. But I think at the time they were looking around at different properties, but I think the Aussie slouch hat thing must have appealed to them. So that was in the commercial, so that was kind of fun.

leigh Chalker (01:05:23):
That’s cool. That’s cool.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:05:27):
Yeah. Yeah. So I kept doing Soldier for a number of years and I kept going to conventions. I went with Chris to a couple of San Diego and I utilised a lot of the panels and the interviews that I was doing over there is research for my doctorate that I went on to do after my honours and my doctorate was kind of an extension of that first Soldier Legacy issue. It was kind of, I wouldn’t say experimenting, that sounds a bit wanky, but it was more about trying different comic making methodologies, working with Chris with a plot driven kind of marble method or working on a script when I did an early human fly story back in 2013, or working as a cartoonist writing and drawing my own work. So there was a multitude of different things that I was sort of writing about in that original paper and talking about what Aussie comics were and possibilities of studying and making that sort of material because there wasn’t many sort of how tos in regards to making Aussie comics back in the day.

(01:06:52)
That Soldier Legacy was an extension of that. And then while in San Diego, I met the Gestalt guys, and then I continued the relationship when I came back to Australia, being a guest at comms for many years, you see the same sort of core people. And I would go and get feedback from Wolfgang and talk to him. And at a certain point, him and Christian, I used to sit around with Christian and Andrew Constant and just talk Kirby stories in the bar after the cons and just shoot the breeze. And I think one day it was just like, Hey, do you want to do something? And that’s where Bone Walk kind of came from.

leigh Chalker (01:07:46):
That’s cool. That’s cool with your doctorate, man, because I mean, you’re right. I come from a Townsville in far north Queensland, so that’s a big city. It’s not rural, it’s in the middle there. I can’t remember

Dr. Paul Mason (01:08:07):
Up there few times. It’s great. Yeah.

leigh Chalker (01:08:10):
Yeah. Thank you. It’s my hometown.

(01:08:18)
There’s lots of sun, mate. Don’t worry about that. You’re right. Because there wasn’t a lot of how to do comic books at all, and I reckon that’s awesome that you decided to do that and basically write about your whole experience with your comic book, you know what I mean? And going about learning and that because there is, I mean, I do not have the body of work that you do, man. And I’m by far a lot of work in terms of my artistic ability and writing ability to get anywhere near you are at this stage. But I have

Dr. Paul Mason (01:08:55):
Down to lift me up, oh

leigh Chalker (01:08:57):
Man, dude, look, I’m not talking down about myself brother. I just know that I’ve got work to do and I enjoy doing the work. And that’s cool with that. But from dealing and not dealing, but from working with people that do different approaches too. I mean, it’s so handy that you did that paper for people to read. Hopefully that’s available for people to read because you do get people that prefer to give you a synopsis and then you do the artwork and then they fiddle around with it with you, and then they come and put the script. And then there are those that give you a script that are like, I want it like this. And if you do think slightly, oh, maybe if we did No, stick to the script. Everyone has such their own styles of working with people.

(01:09:59)
Did you find that working with people that your best work with people was when you felt a chemistry with them? When you’re in a rock and roll band, you know what I mean? If you’re in bands have chemistries, or did you just sort of digging that crew there? I really liked that work We did. Or were you more, I suppose, motivated from the perspective of that idea is it’s snapping onto me right now and I like where that’s heading. I’m going to go that way regardless of whoever’s working on it. I think there’s Has your mind work, man.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:10:39):
Yeah, it’s interesting. I’m in the process of writing this. I’m turning, that original thesis was done, I think I handed it in 2015, and I developed a comics course at the university that I’ve taught for six years or so. Yeah, I think we started, I think this might be coming up to the sixth year or whatever. I can’t remember. It’s been a while. So I’m developing that into a big handbook of anyone that if you’ve never done a comic, this could teach you how to do a comic from idea to kind of finish. So I’m in the process of that and then sort of doing that elements of that as an online course. So I’m sort of thinking about this stuff again, about the different approaches that people can take and that’s the great thing about comics. I think everything that you said is valid with some projects.

(01:11:41)
It’s about, I think ultimately if you want to be a professional, regardless of whether you’re getting paid or you just let amateur or whatever, you still should think what you want to be. So if you want to be professional, you approach it with that mindset of if you’re working with somebody and you get a script, it’s about kind of servicing that script as best as you can and hoping that in the process, whatever your situation is that you’re in, that you have some sort of leeway and respects to what you read and how you want to interpret that story for the page. Whether you follow it to the T regardless and never have a conversation with the writer or you have a conversation with a writer and see how flexible things are. I think outside of a company structure or a format that Australia, it’s very rare to have that format. I think that should be allowable, that it’s a collaborative effort and it should be based on that chemistry aspect. So it’s kind of a combination of both in that sense. I know everyone’s going to have their own or their different approaches to it regardless. And I feel like sometimes working with a writer when I worked with Andrew on Yeah, that comment’s correct. Just want to acknowledge that

leigh Chalker (01:13:20):
Everyone has their own creative process. Shane will bring that up. Sorry to interrupt you Paul. We’ll just

Dr. Paul Mason (01:13:26):
Read. You’re alright.

leigh Chalker (01:13:28):
Comment. For people listening that can’t see the screen, everyone has their own process. There is not right or wrong way to create art.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:13:36):
Yeah, correct. And I think there needs, regardless of what it is in terms of comics, I think let’s just say that there’s a certain element or a certain level, if you’re treating it like an art form that you’re working on, yes, there’s a lot of leeway. If you’re working from a commercial standpoint, then there’s a different set of parameters that we have to talk about. In that sense, I think working with a writer, like when I worked with Andrew on Kid element of trust that’s involved with any sort of writer, artist, collaboration, and if you trust that person and you want to do right by the material, I think that’s going to go a long way into elevating what you’re trying to do or what you’re trying to achieve. In that sense, I feel like I’m losing tenuous grasp on what your question is, but I feel like the one point that I did want to say was when I worked with Andrew, when he elevated what I can do or at least gave me confidence in my own writing later as to what I could do. Because if you’re trying to service that particular story, they’re going to encourage you to do things that you may not necessarily write for yourself. And I think the stretching and the problem solving of how to achieve that particular moment I think is really important for the development of the artist, particularly from a sense of a comic artist should be able to do anything that’s thrown at ’em in that regard. And though I like the idea of a writer saying, Hey, what do you want to draw?

(01:15:33)
I feel like there still should be some onus on the writer to push the artist if you’re working in that collaborative approach.

leigh Chalker (01:15:42):
Yeah, I understand that. I particularly appreciate the fact that you say eloquently put that you were veering off from my question. I can’t remember how you put it, but that was really good using your tenuous grasp. I was like, I like that. Very good

Dr. Paul Mason (01:16:07):
Speak. Sorry, I don’t mean to

leigh Chalker (01:16:10):
It’s okay mate. It’s okay. Now Ryan O’Connor, for everyone listening, you’ve been working on deadline for many years plus with all the teaching and skill building that comes with it, do you feel like you are ready to go if a big two opportunity did come your way?

Dr. Paul Mason (01:16:29):
That’s it. Thank you for the questions and the comments throughout. Ryan. That’s an interesting question. I feel like many years ago I made some level of peace with myself that I would probably never work for the big two. There’s a number of reasons behind it. Most of them probably sound like a cop out. I think primarily it would be come down to a point of I don’t think my work is good enough for those two companies. Whether they are or not, I don’t know because sometimes there’s books that I don’t read much of the big two stuff anymore. It doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t feel like I’m the audience. I occasionally do and if I do I kind of feel like, oh well they’ve already got a guy for that, so why would they want me for that? I think the other thing is the element of luck. I’m not in the room with the person who can make the choice that you are the guy to do the thing. Look, whether I finish this current project that I’m on, that becomes a calling card perhaps. Or it could just be the thing that I’m known for doing the phantom sort of Vietnam series that’ll be collected in a year or two.

(01:17:55)
And if that provides an opportunity to do big two work, great. But I feel as though like they’re a factory. They don’t necessarily need me as the cog. They’ve probably got plenty of other cogs both in America or overseas that can do that work for that material. I don’t know who to talk to. There’ve been opportunities. I remember sitting in DC Comics office in 2013 I think, or 20, yeah, 2013 I think it was with Chris and the editor at the time was pulling their hair out. I think the new 52 had just kicked off. And for those that are aware, it was a tenuous time for the company and the creatives working on that series. I heard lots of stories while we were there. Suffice to say that they said that, oh, we’d love to give you something, but I don’t have any control of anything right now. And then a couple months later that editor was gone.

(01:19:07)
So that was probably the closest I’ve touched the sun before my wings melted and it was nice sort of compliments. I came back to Australia in 2016 knowing that I had this new thing to do with the Phantom called Kid Phantom that I thought it was funny that I was flying halfway across the world to try to find potential work, but already had possibly a job back in Australia doing something. But I never felt comfortable with that work or with my comic drawing until the end of that series. Anyway, I feel like the work that I’m doing now is fun, at least mentally fulfilling for me. I’ve got free reign to do what I like and have so with fruit for a long time now, which is great and I feel like I would be giving up a lot to work on something over there. But again, I don’t feel as though I have that opportunity or will have that opportunity to ever do that stuff. So it’s kind of a long stupid answer to Ryan’s question if the opportunity ever arise to do something. Sure. I dunno how my deadline ability would go now that I’m not on deadline with phantom stuff. It’s when I can do it in my schedule that I just do the work and fill gaps.

(01:20:53)
Especially doing the primary aspect is the graphic of all the collected work. So there’s no sort of hard pressed deadline apart from certain other factors that are just kind of there in life. But yeah, I dunno, it’s something that I’ve kind of given up on years ago knowing that maybe that’s just something that it doesn’t really appeal to me anymore. I probably have a Punisher story or two, but that’s about it. It’s just whatever workers work, it’s a weird thing this Australians have always had this, going back to the turn of the century, turn of the 19 hundreds and particularly when I was, was writing a book chapter for an American academic book on war comics and one of the things that came up was this, which if people have read the old panel by panel John Ryan books or even Sunbeams to Sunset, Matt Carmichael’s comics book by Graham Cliff, they talk about these early kind of boys magazines that came out in the early 19 hundreds. And even then the boys magazines were emulating and playing up our tenuous connection with the US as well as our loyalty to the uk. And I feel like in our culture that’s a constant of we don’t care about you unless someone else overseas cares about you and then we care about you. So regardless of how good you might be or what you do in Australia, there’s this,

(01:23:07)
It’s like Don Lane, do you remember Don Lane, the older American? Yeah. So he built a career out here hosting an Australian show probably because he was a tall American guy with American accent. What else could he have a career overseas? I dunno. You know what I mean? There’s that kind of aspect to it that I feel is inherent in our culture in a way. I don’t particularly mind too much if my career is just Australian comics. I love Australian comics, I love doing Gestalt stuff. I’m slow with flock, but my focus has been on finishing this phantom work while I have it. It’s been a rough few years and trying to juggle it around the university job and looking after family and doing that sort of stuff. But if you really want to do something, you’ll find a way to do it

(01:24:13)
Is always my attitude to think. So even if most of my comics are done once everyone’s gone to bed and I have a couple of hours to, I try not to sacrifice sleep so much. And again, it comes back to what you were saying earlier about mental health is something that I teach my students the ability of what you can do is only 50% because if your mind and your body aren’t simpatico in the sort of art that you’re trying to achieve, then what good is the ability to be able to draw if your mental health and your physical body won’t allow you to. So you’ve got to at some point, and I learned that the hard way. So if Marvel and DC knock, sure I’m not stupid, I’ll probably consider it. It’s just not realistic to me that they would. So I’m just going to focus on what I have and what I can do and

leigh Chalker (01:25:16):
Do the best work you can. Absolutely. Man. When you said that you could see yourself doing a couple of issues as a Punisher, when you said that I was like, yeah, in my mind, yeah, I can see you doing a couple issues as the Punisher. That’d be very cool. You would suit that a hundred percent. Man, I pick up Phantom books because obviously not just yourself, but there’s Jason Paulos and Glen Lambton and varying other people out there in the community and people I’ve met and have things to do with partake in all of that through world. And obviously I love Australian comic books too, mate. That’s my passion. So on one thing, I’m very much with you that I don’t tend to buy much Marvel and DC because I think those stories for me, I lost interest in them probably in my twenties. I just want more from my comic books. I’m not saying that that’s less or that anyone, I’m not putting anyone in a box. If you love that stuff, you go and buy. But just old

Dr. Paul Mason (01:26:35):
Stuff on the shelf and I still have my Kirbys and I still have a lot of that material that I bought when I was a kid.

leigh Chalker (01:26:43):
I’ve got boxes for the stuff man that I love, but I just guess

Dr. Paul Mason (01:26:48):
Devil and black wine up there and Darwin Cook stuff or

leigh Chalker (01:26:56):
It. It’s so good man. But I don’t know, I just hit a point where I was just, I don’t know, I felt like this, oh this compulsion for more something different. And then I guess you as you grow out, and I don’t mean growing age, I just mean in terms of taste and you push further out into the fields and you start what’s over here, what’s there, what’s in this back? And then you realise just there such rich diversity of stories and comics and all sort of art and stuff like that. It’s out there. It’s beautiful because Ryan sent comment in here and I’m going to come to you on this Paul, I’m super pumped that here we’ll be getting a Phantom Vietnam graphic novel because dude, let’s talk about Phantom because I can’t see myself ever working on Phantom. Alright? So I’m just, I don’t know man.

(01:27:53)
That’s just how I see it. We all have our little lanes that we like. You’ve got what you are doing and happy with, but I can’t see myself doing phantom. But I tended to find that, I was finding that to me Phantom was getting, there’s only so many reprints and I know there’s all licences and you have to do this and there’s a whole heap of litigation process that’s in the back too. So you’ve got to have so many issues printed a year of this and then you can have that many issues of that. And I get that, but for the average reader that just picks up a fandom like they do on a smoker or buying a coffee or something like that man to see Paul O’s artwork, Lumsden artwork. But I’d obviously seen your stuff in Ridge Kid. I’d seen some issues of Kid Phantom. I own some of those. I enjoyed that and that would’ve been tricky because that sort of work. But man, your Vietnam stuff, dude really caught me off guard because I,

(01:29:18)
Like you just said, you’ve sort of got an open door for what you want to do and I think the thing that attracted me to that work in particular man was the fact that I’d not seen Phantom portrayed in that way during that era on the war front. I know there’s 26 phantoms or whatever there is, but just that how you presented it just struck with me and I have followed each of your issues since then and I enjoy ’em very much. There was also a particular issue that I enjoyed immensely. I can’t remember the number of it, but it’s the one where Phantom’s boxing on the cover and he has like man, awesome. Really unique art style dude with your art style. I mean God, you can pick your art man a mile away. Adam Gillespie Phantom in Vietnam is easily the best phantom story of recent years. So thank you. Adam,

(01:30:29)
What’s for you and your art style now? You’re talking about a whole myriad of people that you’re reading, like say you’ve mentioned your Millers, your Kirby, all that sort of stuff. I can see that now that you’re talking about, I see little bits and pieces in your work, but you’re very unique to me. I can’t really see too much more other than you. So I mean what was the driving for? Were you always trying to do something quintessentially you? Is that one of the things when you were kid through all of these trials, lessons, tribulations, the study, the becoming a doctor in this theoretical process to build to where you are now? Was there always that I want to be Paul Mason. What does Paul Mason equate to in my career? Your art, your voice? Was it a conscious effort?

Dr. Paul Mason (01:31:38):
I don’t think it was a conscious effort. I just think maybe style’s interesting. I talk about it at uni because sometimes you have to be a little bit fluid with the approach and sometimes it’s essentially a guess when you’re thinking about from a commercial aspect of what is going to sell or what could possibly appeal to a certain audience, which sometimes makes things difficult. And what I was laughing about earlier when we would mention Kid Phantom and the initial backlash that I received before the book had even come out, but that’s just our culture I think in general.

(01:32:40)
Whether Will Eisner was correct in saying that style was just our errors and failures of trying to achieve of semi realistic approach and falling short. I don’t know. I feel like style is kind of that, whether you seek it or not is perhaps a conscious, eventually subconscious approach to the influences and the things that you appreciate that just manifest in the way that you structure. So it’s come about more in an intuitive sort of a sense, would you think? Yeah, I think so. I think there’s an aspect that whether it’s, I can see sometimes influences that come out and I can see where there’s elements of shortfalls of trying to replicate or approach a certain aspect of drawing and it happens to come out in that fashion and becomes an inherent pattern that as you draw hands, for instance, I know that my hands are probably Reed Junior esque, maybe Jack Kirby esque with little sort of cartoony elements thrown in because a lot of my influences growing up was television and movies and watching Looney Tunes cartoons and stuff.

(01:34:16)
There’s probably a cartoony approach to a lot of the work that I do and it’s just something that’s inherently been there all that time in some approaches or certain jobs where you have to draw in a certain fashion, I can force myself to do it, but over the course of pages it would be difficult to maintain. It would be the equivalent of maybe Edda senior’s attempt of doing Steve Ditco when Steve Di left Spiderman, that first issue of him trying to do. But I feel like that those are just elements and regardless of who sort of laughed at me in school saying, oh, your stuff’s cartoony, or it looks like a cartoon or people saying that this won’t sell, I was in the end, I was just kind like, well, it kind of is what it is and it’s something that this appeals and I know every now and again if there’s a toff philosophy or go esque element to it that I’m trying to go for, it’s more about looking back at my earlier stuff and feeling like I was throwing in too many lines and of the approach of a line should be put down on the page for a reason.

(01:35:55)
Every mark that you make has a job and if I can’t figure out what the job is of that mark, then it shouldn’t necessarily be there. So I’m just trying to figure that process out while trying to replicate some semblance of life or that particular element on the page as correctly and accurately as possible without it looking too stiff or without it looking like it’s not from my pencil or ink pen.

(01:36:30)
So even if it’s a replication of a reference material of a real place or a real machine or a real gun or something that I’ve wanted to bring a sense of authenticity to the story because that’s where it’s set and that’s what I’m trying to do with it. I don’t want it to look like I’ve just looked at a photograph or I’ve just traced over something. I still want it to look like me or my mark that I’ve made. So those are just, I guess those elements there. And so I look up to artists at Alex Toth or even at David Elli who was able to be flexible with their art style and approach. And plenty of times people would comment on Ellis work and say, oh, he can’t draw anymore. It’s like, well no, that’s coming from a place of ignorance of not understanding that those are choices.

(01:37:34)
And so even with Kid Phantom, and maybe there’s a lot of stuff in the earlier issues that I cringe at now, and I know that maybe by the last issue I was starting to get a little bit comfortable with the character after a while, but by that it was kind of too late. I know that there was choices being made deliberately, and I was thinking about whatever that underlying structure is. So as long as compositional aspects to the drawing, and as long as the poses were lively and it was the expression that I was trying to create was achieving their goal, then everything else was like tinsel on the Christmas tree.

(01:38:25)
So I’m big on trying to now those fundamentals and continually working on what the visual storytelling aspect should be. So whatever comes out, comes out. But that’s all I care about. I’ve had students hand in storyboards and they could look rough as, but if I can look at the linear motif of them and understand what the composition is or what that particular shot is trying to achieve, then it gives high marks in my book. Because you can wrap tinsel and fairy lights around a pile of garbage, but at the end of the day it’s still structurally garbage.

leigh Chalker (01:39:10):
Yeah, yeah. Like polishing a dog poo mate.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:39:15):
Absolutely. Absolutely.

leigh Chalker (01:39:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get that. I get that. Hey, no question for you because look, I love the

Dr. Paul Mason (01:39:23):
Waffle by the way. I just,

leigh Chalker (01:39:25):
No, don’t you stress about that. This is what chin wags are, man. This is the chinwag, the fluidity, the talking, the learning. I love learning. That’s why it’s the detail that you’re going into coming from a teacher’s mind and stuff like that, my mind, my mind is a little bit different. I’ve tended to find that I look at something and I feel like I’ve just read so many comics over the years and I’m not always right. You know what I mean? And sometimes it takes me a lot of pages. I do traditional and I just have my own process of I’ll do a page and freestyle it and then happy and then come back later and redo it. So I’m a bit all over the shop. I’m not technically D’s just my thing. I do, sure, but I wonder just from me, I tend to find that I’m particularly over the last 12 months or so, look, I have always, and I feel in particular over the last 12 months, I practise meditation.

(01:40:40)
I do that twice a day. Since I’ve started meditating, I’ve found that my creativity has become far more intuitive in terms of what I’ve learned previously is still there. But if I’m vibing and I’m pencilling and I get this notion of I don’t think it’s going to work, there’s something inside of me just goes like flow, baby flow and I just let it go anyway. You know what I mean? And I think what you sort of getting to before is, if I can read between the lines, is you feel sometimes the work that you don’t like is when you are forced a little bit. You know what I mean? You feel like you’re pushing something as opposed to role and on with it. Now, if I’ve got this wrong, I apologise, but is that thought process, because, so I guess literally in a literary sense studied on all of the arts through your university degrees and your book writing and your teaching. So you obviously know things like in terms of very detail. Do you tend to find sometimes that may possibly get in the way of people’s artwork?

Dr. Paul Mason (01:42:08):
Yeah,

leigh Chalker (01:42:12):
That’s all the answer.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:42:14):
Yeah, sure. From what I gather, yeah, I guess sometimes that pursuit of perfection and knowing, sorry, long day Brain. That’s okay. It’s a

leigh Chalker (01:42:32):
Weird question, man. I do.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:42:36):
I see what you’re trying to say. I think sometimes maybe it’s just whether I feel like looking back at it, I feel like everybody should be able to look back at their work and try and be honest with themselves as to whether it was, I know the only way to get good at any sort of drawing or art is by doing it. And as Chuck Jones used to say, everyone’s got 10,000 crappy drawings in their system, you might as well, you got to do ’em all to get ’em out. So I felt like at least doing Kid Phantom and there was three, 400 pages of churning that stuff out, that becomes a point where you start to feel more comfortable with it.

(01:43:28)
I don’t know whether it’s just knowing that knowledge or if it’s just me and my anxieties and hangups as to, and my imposter syndrome, whether I feel like it’s not where I want it to be because I know all this stuff, or whether it’s because that’s just me. It’s hard to of separate that aspect. It’s hard. There’s always this, you mentioned it earlier about you do these things and you notice you’ve read a lot of comics and you notice patterns and you, I did security for a number of years. I was a loss prevention officer and it got to a point where I could be sitting there on cameras or in a shopping mall and there could be a hundred people flowing through at Christmas time and I could go see that guy there, keep an eye on him, I’m going to go outside at the exit and wait for him because he’s about to steal something. And they’ll say, how do you know? It’s like, well, I’m not Nostradamus Professor X or anything. I know I’m balding. But it was more about the fact that you notice patterns in behaviour and patterns in the way people move and look and act through repetition.

(01:45:03)
So I know from perhaps looking back at earlier works, that aspect of repetition and then seeing the older stuff going well, I can see where that doesn’t necessarily align with the knowledge that I’ve gained or the best practises that have picked up along the way as you learn how to do something and then figure out a better way to do it because,

leigh Chalker (01:45:27):
Well, that obviously had come with the experience. And I mean from when you’re doing Kid Phantom to where you are now, even the Ridge kid, I mean the more you’ve studied, the more you’ve practised, the more knowledge you’ve learned. And I’m also going to assume, because there are people that I know that are friends of yours that speak highly of you, that

(01:45:49)
They’re people that obviously you’ve asked questions of and reached out to, Hey, what are your thoughts on this? And they’ve given pointers so the community has assisted in that regard. And I think it’s, man, I think the rhythms and at that stage you would’ve had the frame of reference and the confidence in your artwork to where you are there. And that’s part of it, isn’t it? You can go back and look at it and go, man, I’ve learned from that. I should never have done that, but why don’t I try this and I’m going to bring that forward now. Or you’ll get to a point in a new comic where you go, man, I did that in issue too or that and I shouldn’t have done that. I’ve got a chance to redeem myself now. And you have at it. And I mean, that’s the whole journey of the artist man and the creator, I guess. Because dude, I can look at a drawing I did yesterday and think it’s awful. You know what I mean? I dunno. Yeah. Wasn’t asking that question to be a pain, it’s just that,

(01:46:58)
It’s just observation from my perspective, man. I mean, I watch heaps of YouTube stuff and I’ve read comic books and books by authors and stuff, and I’m very well aware. You can pick artists and you can see their styles and their hatching and how they’re doing things and all that. But since, and I, I struggled a long time. I don’t think it’s been probably until the last maybe two or three years where I’ve really started to find myself and weirdly enough, Paul, I think it happened more through sobriety than it did when I was drinking and stuff. I was all over the shop, not quite, but sobriety sort of like I found I guess a straight line, if you know what I mean. And just with this meditation, I’ve sat down here and drawn obviously thousands of hours, and I’ve often wondered, I wonder if the intuition or just that whole flow thing of just chance at man, just have a go. You know what I mean? You can rub it out later again, is the right thing or is the wrong thing. But then I suppose that’s a null and void question or statement to an extent. Every creative process is different,

Dr. Paul Mason (01:48:18):
But I think there is an inherent level of effort and FI should have just sworn and said effort. You know what I mean?

leigh Chalker (01:48:30):
No, you can

Dr. Paul Mason (01:48:31):
Come on and just do. And I think what you’re saying is cool in a sense of you make a decision of well, and I think that’s in life in general, and I think it’s like there was time where we had some tragedy in the family last year and we’re still sort of trying to come to grips with it and live with it. And for a while there I lost the ability to care about anything apart from my immediate loved ones and trying to get them through that situation. And it just kind of taught me that sometimes you can have hangups about stuff the way that whether you do it or whatever you’re involved in, and you can get really sort of crazy and idiosyncratic about something that really at the end of the day doesn’t matter because life is too short. So in the sense of trying new things and doing new things, whether you feel like it’s the right way to do something or you’re not necessarily sure whether it’s the right or the wrong way, I feel like you just have to do it.

(01:50:01)
You have to push beyond that level of doubt and just go fuck it. And it kind of goes back to what I said earlier where it’s like, well, it’s done because I feel like you have to finish something in order to solidify the lessons of that thing. Plenty of people, and I talk to students as well about this, they get partway through a project and something more enticing comes along or they lose interest or they get self-doubt or something impacts them and they make that decision of, I’m just going to let it go easier. It feels easier to do that, and I don’t feel like you learn anything from that. All you’re doing is putting it on pause, and then it’s not until you finish something whether we’re successful or not successful with it, or whether you felt like you learned the lessons from it or not. Regardless, at least you finished it, it’s done. And then as you go through the process of doing something similar or doing something else or doing it all over again, at least you come at it with the lessons of what you learned from the previous flow of doing that. But if you’re always putting it on pause or running away from it or quitting from it, then I don’t feel like you learn anything from doing that.

(01:51:37)
And as I said earlier, you feel like you’re taking the easy approach, but really you’re taking the hard approach because it’s taking you longer to learn those lessons from completing that task. And in a sense, you, it’s easier to push through and do the thing rather than give up because then you’ve got to live with that for the rest of your life that you’ve given up on that thing. So anyway, I’m probably not making much sense at this point, but yeah,

leigh Chalker (01:52:13):
No, you are. Well, to be honest with you mate, Sean, she just said getting distracted by a shiny new project, never. So I think everyone’s been guilty of that. I would like to say though, on a note, you just suggested that you weren’t making much sense then yet to me what you were just talking about. Absolutely 100% did resonate because just in terms of, I’ve had my own thoughts about just look, we all have our, again, I’m very honest on this show about how I feel. I like it that way to be as authentic as I can, and I have doubts constantly, man, I wonder why I’m doing this. I wonder why I’m sitting down here in this room for hundreds of hours a month doing this sort of stuff. And many, many times I’ve often thought, you know what, man, it’s too hard. There’s better things to do in life. You know what I mean? I could be out climbing mountains and stuff like that, but the one mountain you can’t climb is giving up on stuff, man, because you’re a hundred percent right. It builds up on you if you set those goals and you don’t achieve them. And yeah, no, so it does resonate and it’s very strange that on these chin wags Paul, I always learn something that just sticks with me from who, no matter who it is, man, and amongst many things,

(01:53:48)
Yeah, I’ve just had those basically for me is like I got my own independent comic book coming out soon and it’s been like two and a half years of a battle through sobriety and trying to relearn artwork and just the whole battle man, do you know what I mean? To get this thing done. And I was sitting there last night and this morning in particular, while extremely proud of myself that I’d accomplished this little step.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:54:33):
That’s great.

leigh Chalker (01:54:35):
I also felt a moment of, man, do I really want to do another one? Do you know what I mean? It was such a bloody battle to get this one done. Yeah, so that’s why when you were talking then, man, in a strange way, you answered the question. That’s what my intuition is saying is, Lee, you’re an idiot. You have to do the next one.

Dr. Paul Mason (01:55:03):
I’ve always thought that comics on a certain level, you have to love it because it’s not like it’s paying us a fortune. So that’s a start. It’s not the easiest medium to do. Look, you can approach a comic no matter how much you do, but let’s say from a commercial standpoint or trying to maintain an audience, it’s not the easiest thing to do. There’s so much that you’ve got to learn to execute the craft to the best of your abilities. And we’ve talked about that stuff before, but on a certain level, I know for me, I love the medium and I just want to tell stories in that medium.

(01:55:46)
And I think sometimes society in particular in recent years is kind of geared towards that idea of if you’re not doing something that’s going to turn a profit or make you money in some way, shape, or form, then it doesn’t have validity. And I think that’s nonsense. I think all art forms and all aspects of culture of what we do, they add to the culture. There’s an importance to it regardless of what some dude in a suit at the top tells you. So I think sometimes the question of what am I doing or there’s better things to do than what I should be doing, obviously if comics were easy then there’d be more people doing ’em and there’d be less people on TikTok perhaps or whatever. I couldn’t come up with a reason or anything else, but you know what I’m saying, like killing time in some other fashion, I feel like it is an expression of ourselves, or at least the better ones are particularly even if we’re talking from a commercial standpoint, the better ones have an aspect to them that speaks to the creators that made that material. They’re, whether they’re trying to say something or whether they’re just trying to express something, I think there’s a beautifulness to it or a validity to it.

(01:57:21)
But yeah, in terms of making it a choice of what we do, I really think it comes down to what you want to do. Sometimes we have those elements of self-doubt, and we have those elements of what will people think, and these are all natural occurrences of the artist that has a combination of a massive ego and a fragile small little ego that we’re constantly fighting with. And I tell my students when they’re making their third year graduation films that at some point during a project, it is a hard slog. You will doubt yourself and you will doubt the work that you are doing and whether it has any validity or whatever that process might be.

(01:58:19)
I say when it comes to comics or any sort of creativity or expression, you have to trust yourself in what you’re trying to do, what you’re trying to say, do it because you enjoy it because life is too short. And if you’re really finding that everything is a slog, why do it? I also say to people that when it comes to any sort of work or toil, I used to point at construction workers outside and say, those guys on smoko aren’t going to be skipping merrily back to that hole that they just dug or that wall that they’re in the middle of the building to go back to the wall. You know what I mean? Then there’s going to be some aspects of the job that are going to be a slog, and when it gets difficult that understand that there might be other external factors going on in life or maybe from a mental health standpoint or whatever that might be just a simple case of go and have a glass of water, get some sunshine, do a little exercise and come back to it later. And if you still feel the way that you feel, then yeah, sure, put the pencil down. But by all means, keep building that wall. Keep pushing forward because like we said earlier, Teddy Atlas, the famous boxing trainer, used to say that it’s harder to live with a sense of giving up or a sense of defeat.

(01:59:52)
It might seem easier at the time while you’re in the middle of a fight to go, I’m just going to put my arms down and catch one on the chin and lie down, and then it’s over. I don’t have to deal with it anymore. But maybe pushing through that difficulty of the next few rounds, beat the lifetime of living with that easy knock down and get out of the ring sort of aspect like we were saying earlier.

leigh Chalker (02:00:20):
Yeah, see, the beautiful thing is too, thanks for Alison and all the other comments just then about the appreciation of things. Thank you. I love the fact that we were talking about in our first segment earlier how sports and physical activity can be applied to aspects of life too, with you giving that analogy, because you’re exactly right, mate, you can lower your gloves and take the head to bit the easy way out and take the quick cash, you know what I mean? But there’s nothing quite like getting to that point, mate, where you put so much in that you might lose, but you’re sick from the effort and you knack it and your legs are wobbly and you’re giving it everything you got. You know what I mean? You might not have won the medal, but you can stand up tall, like shoulder to shoulder.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:01:19):
One of my favourite movies, Rocky, what was that about? Everyone goes, oh, Rocky, and they think Fight the Russian and the Action movie and Mr. T and Pity of The Fool and all that sort of stuff. But on one hand it was a romance movie, but on the other hand, Rocky’s main thing of what he wanted to achieve, his hero’s journey was just going the distance. It wasn’t, I’m going to beat Apollo, and then he fails. If you notice in the original movie, they didn’t dwell on the fact that they were raising Apollo’s hand at the end of the film. That was an article. The triumphant music was the fact that he survived and comes into the ring and the first thing he says to her is, Hey, where’s your hat? And

leigh Chalker (02:02:09):
Yeah, well, mate, I watch Rocky, one of the, it is actually, that’s one of those films that it has been seen so many times by so many people that when you haven’t witnessed it for a while and you can pull yourself away from the iconography of it, and then you go back and you just catch it and you’re in that zone and you watch it, it’s an awesome film all way around, man. Tell a dude that’s Sylvester Stallone when he was younger. I mean, I read a film book once, derailing here for a a little bit of weird trivia.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:02:55):
I liked this pretty much me. Yeah, go on,

leigh Chalker (02:02:58):
Man. Sylvester Stallone in a 1981 film book, I can’t remember the name of the film book, but it was

(02:03:10)
A Hollywood thing up and comers and that he just touted as being one of the up and coming directors to Watchman over the next few years. They’d seen him as being a director, and then he obviously went on to be an action hero and with a little bit of directing, but he’s a good screenwriter. Pretty sure he did. I’m not sure you may know this, but my memory’s a little bit. I’m pretty sure he wrote Saturday Night Fever, or if it wasn’t Saturday Night Fever, it was another urban cowboy. It was one of those John Travolta movies.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:03:50):
He directed the sequel, he directed, I think it was called Staying Alive and Put Travolta on the same kind of regimen that he did for his Rambo would’ve been part two at the time. That kind of cut didn’t do too well. They talk

leigh Chalker (02:04:13):
About that interesting. That’s another one of those things. I guess Manny wanted to do it and I’m going to do it, and they had fun doing it. Might not stand the test of time, but it’s done people out there. The other thing is too, it’s like a song you hear. You may not like that song, but someone else out there is going to love it. So I guess it’s personal people’s opinions and stuff. That’s what it is. That’s the world, man. It’s all full of opinions at the moment. And I think sometimes, like you were saying, you just got to follow the Joy mate and not worry too much about what everyone else’s thoughts are on your work, because there’s a great joy in just getting it completed. And then once it’s out into the universe, man, there’s no control over that. Something’s hit, something’s miss, man something.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:05:05):
You can’t control what people like or do or say. I like the attitude of there’s been actors in time, or even Ditko being asked, what’s your favourite comic book that you worked on? And he’s like, oh, the next one. There’s actors that talk about that too. What was the favourite role that you did the next one? And I resonate with that. I like that.

leigh Chalker (02:05:36):
Yeah, I think that is cool, man. You always got to keep, it’s sort of like that whole, the past is gone. You can take memories, you live in the present, but you always keep an eye on the future to know where you’re going. So it’s like you can make your improvements and pick your path as to where you want to go and things like that. We haven’t spoken this evening, and I know I do want to talk to you about this is Flock, so because that’s, I’d say celebrated comic book around, you want some awards and all that. When that came out a couple of years back and many people have such a great appreciation for it. And now knowing that you and I both share a love of our feathered, where did flock come from? What was the gestation of that man?

Dr. Paul Mason (02:06:35):
Oh, thanks for the comments. I only sort of heard recently that people were like, when’s the next one coming out? So I was like, oh, people actually liked it. Okay, cool. So that’s really nice to hear. There was a task that I used to give art direction students. We did in animation, you’ve got different majors that you can undertake and the concept art students had a third year art direction class specifically that I helped rewrite and taught for many years. This year was the first year I didn’t have the opportunity to teach it in eight or nine years, dropping stuff off my desk. I used to do this task where I wanted to combine elements of when students do life drawing and then they go off and they do their assignments in the lab and their own digital work, they separate it. So they conduct their life drawing sessions in the life drawing studio. And then the rules, tools and the techniques that they may develop there don’t necessarily translate into their particular work. And I get it, sometimes people have their comfort zone of what they like to draw, and they’ve got their go-to poses or go-to characters or go-to heads or things that they like to draw. It’s like they’re reps. It’s like that kid in high school that can draw that one thing really well. So they just do that over and over.

leigh Chalker (02:08:21):
I think I’ll still doing that.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:08:31):
It’s good for, it’s good for all of us. So anyway, so there was an exercise of what I’d do is we’d go and we’d draw some poses from the life drawing studio, then I’d drag them to the museum down the road and we’d draw and sketch animals and then I’d drag ’em into the lab and I’d say, alright, well you’ve drawn some stuff from the museum, you’ve drawn some stuff in the lab. I want you to kind of photo bash some of that stuff together of your own sketches, do some digital work, take the traditional stuff, do some digital creation and come up with some sort of creature design.

(02:09:12)
And as an example, in class, I had just been to the museum and while the kids were looking at certain animals, I sketched a few pigeons and things. And I went down into the, where the mephisto tank is in Brisbane. They’ve got the World War I tank that they confiscated from a northern France battlefield and World War I, and they had World War I sort of light horseman uniforms on display and stuff like that. So I did some extra sketches while I was there. So while I was in class, Hey look, you got to develop, I’m just answering the comment here. You got to develop some sort of shorthand, otherwise you’ll be there all day. So whatever trees you got, go for it. I’m just saying, I put in some variety every now and again, a different tree I’d plug in my iPad. And on the big screen I was just doing a mash of some of the uniform sketches and the pigeon sketch.

(02:10:17)
And I just drew this kind of six foot man pigeon wearing a World War I army uniform. And that was sort of the character that I come up with, this crested pigeon, Aussie native pigeon wearing this uniform. And then when the pandemic hit and all my through work dried up, it was pencils down. And after about a month of going through grief symptoms, my drag dragged myself up and decided, well, I need something to keep my brain occupied. I mean, I haven’t drawn my own or written or drawn my own comic in a number of years. I did Eldridge Kid, I did Kid Phantoms. It’d been ages since I’ve done Soldier Legacy. See?

(02:11:11)
But I had this dumb idea of wanting to draw this or write a story around this sort of man pigeon character or war pitch as I sort of dubbed him. So I’d also just, before the pandemic hit, I’d also been to Lifeline book Fair. And I’d picked up a stack of cheap Army, Vietnam and World War II picture books that I was hoping to use for the continuation of my Nam series that all of a sudden dried up. And I thought, what was I going to do with all this material that I just bought? I like drawing war stuff, not because I like battles and guns and war. I actually in the Phantom comic, I shy away from doing it. I figured if you want to watch a war movie, you could watch one. Everyone’s seen Apocalypse Now or whatever. What’s the point of drawing? Apocalypse Now do something different. But war offers natural conflict and what resonates is not like what Battalion did what on what day, but how did this affect the people that kind of live there? Hey, that’s Lloyd.

leigh Chalker (02:12:38):
He likes the camera more than Me, man. So

Dr. Paul Mason (02:12:41):
Yeah, Lloyd, I’m the same. Yeah, he’s a good fella. So I decided that I wanted to use some of this material, and I came up with this really dumb story. I’ve written the whole thing. It’s all written plotted out, and I wanted to involve my birds and the birds that have been part of our lives as potential characters in this kind of dumb story about this old soldier talking about his time in all these conflicts. And part of it, my partner, and it was basically just to entertain Amanda. Part of Amanda was sort of spitballing ideas and said to me I wanted to do, she goes, oh, you should touch on the emu wall. And I’m like, at first I was like, I dunno how that would work. And then I sat down and thought about it and go, oh yeah, I can see how this works. After doing my research and then connecting the dots in regards to all this stuff that was going on in Australia at the time. So there’s historical elements to it that all kind of fit within the nonsense that I’m weaving with this kind of, I don’t know, sci-fi war, dumb anthropomorphic thing that became

leigh Chalker (02:14:08):
It’s lovely creativity, man. From what I can see, I like the fact that you’ve taken into consideration that your animals past and present are also incorporated into it as the main characters, man. Because another thing that you and I have in common is through the previous issues of my comic book is I incorporate my previous dogs and dogs in the background and stuff like that at different sections, man. So it’s either, that’s why I like Chin Wags, man, these little things you find out about people that are like, man, I’d sort of do that doing your thing. But no, I think from what I can see, man, I think there’s quite a lot of people that are super keen on the next flock coming out. But I mean, God mate, you are busy. You got your Vietnam Phantom thing that you head down on, which man, I really want to see that get done because it broke away too. And I want to give you kudos here. The Phantom fell into, for me, with so many reprints, there’s a traditional aspect of it that’s certain I would think that older readers are expecting from the Phantom. And what I liked particularly about your Phantom, and I did like about Jason’s, Paul Ross’s Phantom and Glen’s was different. It was fresh, it was new. It was something like Paul Mason’s Phantom is Paul Mason’s phantom, Jason Paul Losses is Jason Paul losses. And I liked that man. I thought invigorated it with a little bit of life,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:16:00):
Very much.

(02:16:08)
As much as I love the character of the Phantom and the law behind it, I know that again, it’s like I was saying about those Vietnam War movies, they’re already made. So what would it serve me to do those stories again, I wrote that sequel that the boxing story you mentioned, that was a sequel to a classic story, but I did it with my approach. But I still looked at the sequel and tried to find, there was a big gaping plot hole in it that I wanted to touch on. And I have written another extended story that ties Connects in with that, that I hope I get the opportunity one day perhaps after the Nam stuff to do. But if I don’t, I’ll just release that plot elsewhere, I guess.

(02:17:04)
And then I’m also having fun with Amanda where we plotted an old Julie Walker female Phantom story. That’s again, a different take on the character where it’s in Outback Australia in the early 19 hundreds, sort of a meat pie western type story that don’t ordinarily see, particularly with Julie Walker, who’s now an old woman, a bitter old woman who’s just going around smoking pirates and killing Bush rangers. And there’s a couple of things in the last part that I’m drawing right now that I’ve never really heard much from King Features other than the first time I did. I wrote and drew that first Nam story, that full length story back in early, I think it came out early 2019 in the annual I heard from King features. There was one or two words that they wanted me to change, but they also said that was, they really appreciated the way that I treated the Phantom in that story, and that’s what they wanted to see from sort of modern stuff. So I kind of dug that, but there’s a moment in this next Julie Walker story that I’m wondering if King features might not like, but given the context of her being a, I dunno if you saw Terminator Dark Fate, it was with

leigh Chalker (02:18:47):
Is that James Cameron came back and it had that Ghost Rider do playing Terminator. Yeah, I saw that.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:18:54):
Yeah. Yeah. And they had, Sarah Connor was an old sort of terminator hunting woman. That was the take we had in that. Amanda said, we should do Julie Walker like that. And I went, yes, that’s cool. Okay. So she’s a very bitter character in that regard. And yeah, there’s a couple of things that I’m wondering if kink features will push back, but otherwise we’ll see what happens.

leigh Chalker (02:19:21):
Well, better to beg forgiveness and ask permission and creativity, I suppose Paul say you’ll find out with a strongly worded email, I’m sure.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:19:34):
But yes, I understand that there are certain fans that their material classic, regardless of what I do, and that’s okay. I know that there’s certain people that do the take of what I’m doing, and some people ask, why would Vietnam have relevance to what’s in general? And I’m like, well, two things. One is who cares? Why would it have to be relevant right now? Just enjoying doing it. But also it does have relevance because there’s a lot of things about that time period that seemed that whether it’s politics or the world that we live in are doomed to repeat themselves. So I remember a couple of years ago sitting with Dudley after a phantom dinner, Dudley’s the publisher at the moment with fruit, he’s been publisher for many years now after Jim Shepherd passed away. And Dudley said to me, do you see the Phantom in the Russian UK conflict?

(02:20:55)
This was, as I said a few years ago. And I said, no, but I know how you can address it. And I said, I know where the Vietnam story is ending. And I basically pitched that last story. And when I was finished, he said, do whatever you got to do to get to that story really great. Just whatever. And that’s the lovely thing I’ve had with through where I just, here’s the new chapter to the Vietnam send, and that’s it, and that’s the conversation. And then I’ll do the next one. And knowing that I know that I’m not going to repeat myself in each story, I find something unique about whatever was going on in that conflict or within that aspect of the conflict where I’ve set the continuity of that phantom in that part of the story. And I just want ’em to be, even if they touch on characters that have existed in Lee Fog’s world, and I want it to make sense within the context of their first appearance in whatever story I’ve pulled them from. I’ll give you a preview. I handed in a story recently, if you remember that boxing story that I did.

leigh Chalker (02:22:28):
I do.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:22:30):
I was filling a gap in the original Mass Marvel story from 1948, but there was a main character in that original story that I didn’t touch, but I found an angle to bring them back and continue their story in a chapter in the Vietnam Tale. So in a way, it kind of ties in with the boxing story as well as Lee Folk Law, but if you’ve never read any of that stuff, it doesn’t matter anyway because a self-contained little 10 page story that hopefully someone will dig.

leigh Chalker (02:23:06):
Yeah. But it’s still cool that you’ve put that much thought and love into it, man, because that’s the sort of creativity and detail that I enjoy because it’s like a lot of people may miss that but there will be people out there that will see and recognise those Easter eggs, I guess you call them, and attachments to those characters and go like, man, look at this dude. Go. You know what I mean? He knows his phantom law, who these characters are. But I reckon it’s cool man, that you’ve just sort of got your own little section, I guess, of Phantom that you’ve got your little, the Vietnam thing I would assume is very synonymous with you now with Phantom and you are building your own story and bringing characters in as you want. So it’s like you do have your own lane with it, which is really cool. I do. He’s a cool looking dude and I like the way you do vehicles and buildings too, because it’s like you were saying earlier, you know what they are and they’re drawn by you, but they’re not photo representations of things. And I also like comic books that you know what something is, but it’s not a carbon copy or man, we may as well be taking photographs. I’m putting them on the background drawing comic book on top,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:24:31):
Just those Italian Fermenti comic.

leigh Chalker (02:24:36):
Yeah, I’m with you. I don’t see the point of that. Give it your own flare. It’s like, don’t call it a car if it’s got one wheel, but you know what I’m saying? Yeah, yeah. No, that’s beautiful man. Alright, well Paul, as we wind down our show this evening, mate and we sort of, oh we’ve got comment backlog time, we’ve got a giant box, so here we go. I’ve never seen that before Paul. So ready yourself mate. That’s

Dr. Paul Mason (02:25:09):
Okay.

leigh Chalker (02:25:11):
I love when people take a recognisable IP and tell a unique story rather than just reboot the origin story again.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:25:21):
Yeah, I hear you. I mean it’s is hard. I get the fact that reboots are a thing now and I suppose it’s because sometimes the origin is the best story that they can tell and I know that they’re trying to hook new audiences and sometimes so I kind of get that, but the fandoms kind of simple. You can do his origin in a page and I just wanted to do something a bit different. So I appreciate that comment. Thank you.

leigh Chalker (02:25:53):
Cool. Hey, look at you guys. You’ll be back on drawing fandom tomorrow, mate. Alright, we’ve got Clamp shell. The haters hated what they couldn’t understand Kid Phantom is a refreshing take on the Phantom and I mean mate, I would say from everything you’ve said about Kid Phantom tonight too, from my memory when it came out again, I would assume it was the traditionalists that probably weren’t really happy about’s, not a kid, that sort of thing. We want our phantom back. So I applaud myself and the creative team and the editor for having get the bits to have a go at it, mate, at the end of the day,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:26:43):
I mean it was originally a pitch that Glenn had already made, but there was no real, there was one sort of visual that I was sort of given, but otherwise I had free reign and I made some choices and there was plenty of kids out there that enjoyed it and plenty that had never read comics before, that this was their first comic and got ’em into the fantom or the character. So as far as I was concerned, mission accomplished whether King features decided after a while that they wanted to do their own thing that never eventuated that’s on them. And sometimes they have different ideas of what they want to do with certain properties that don’t always pan out, but for a while there it was something different and we tried a new thing. I had someone complaining, oh, he was an ugly little kid with freckles and looked a bit gangly.

(02:27:37)
And I’m like, yeah, but that’s what puppies look like before they grow into Huskies. You know what I mean? If the hero looks perfect and is perfect as a kid, what’s the point? Reading it pre, I’ve never really been a fan of prequels because it feels like if that was the best story to tell, they would’ve told it first. So with Phantom’s case to give him some sort of character arc into becoming the character that we all know, he has to go through some sort of mental and physical development. Otherwise why read it? It just feels, if I could with any comic script, rub out the name of the character and just change the character’s name and it doesn’t matter in regards to the plot or the storyline, then I feel like writer, I’ve kind of failed in that regard. It has to be unique to that character and what they’re going through in some way, shape or form, whether it’s my own, the Vietnam stuff or whether it’s Flock or when Amanda and I plotted Fury or even the Australian comic hero stuff that Amanda and I have been writing for through that I hope gets released one day we write it to tailor it towards that character and what we know about who they are and if there’s not much there in regards to who they’re, we try to explore what we do have into extrapolating into some sort of dimension for that character to go through their journey.

(02:29:14)
Otherwise it’s just this dude does this thing and then the comic ends. That’s not fun.

leigh Chalker (02:29:22):
Yeah, no, I like it, man. I like the fact too that Amanda helps you mate and you’re like a little creative team and stuff like that going on. I think that’s a beautiful thing.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:29:34):
She’s good at reigning in my, I’ll do a Vietnam story and sometimes the first time she sees it is the first draught letters the lettering’s done, the pages are done, the art’s done, and I hand it to her and I say, where you go and she’ll read it. And if I’ve been a bit verbose or maybe I’ve learned so much about a topic that I’m trying to squeeze in little facts, she’ll read it and go, I feel like this has taken me away from the story. And her instincts are usually right. I go, you know what? You’re right. I just sound like a smart ass. And it’s not up to me to teach an audience, it’s just to entertain them. So regardless of how many hours I’ve listened to something about the Cambodian Civil War, if all that kind of comes from that is my affirmation that the Khmer Rouge were awful people that’ll do. I don’t have to fill the text box more of junk that the reader isn’t going to care about. No one’s going to love something as much as I do, so I have to let it go in that sense and just tell the story that I’m trying to tell without inhibiting it too much. So she’s good like that.

(02:30:57)
And in regards to if I’m working more directly on a story, it’s usually because she has a take on it or I am not a small woman, so I can’t think necessarily that small woman.

leigh Chalker (02:31:18):
I’m just laughing at the fact that you, well,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:31:23):
You know what I mean,

leigh Chalker (02:31:25):
Exactly what you mean.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:31:27):
There’s a character that we’re writing for through that we were asked to pitch a while ago that for another artist, and there’s aspect to that character that from a mindset of Amanda’s experiences, I need to say to her, can you read over this dialogue and these elements to the story? Does this ring true? Does this make sense? So if I’m even with the Nam story, if I’m telling the story from a perspective of a middle-aged North Vietnamese Viet Kong woman and her motivations for why she joined the VC in the first place, I don’t know, but I have to read and the interviews with people like that and try to get in the mindset of what this character’s going through and how might they approach a particular situation so that it rings true and I’m not just shoehorning ’em into my own plot for my own devices. So

leigh Chalker (02:32:38):
That sounds like you’re doing some acting techniques as well there, man, in your writing, what I was chuckling at Paul was not your answer. Okay. Was just that statement you made. Because in my mind when you made it, I thought, imagine if that was a reel that just popped up on the site that had you go, I’m not a little lady. That’s what made me,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:33:05):
I’m sure if I said something.

leigh Chalker (02:33:08):
No, you never know, mate. We might find out. Alright mate, we’ve got another one, Sean. Yeah, it’s not how pretty the art is, it’s how well it tells the story. Yes, hundred

Dr. Paul Mason (02:33:22):
Percent. A hundred percent. Even though I noticed that a lot of comics can be purchased and loved because of how pretty they are. And that’s fine, there’s an audience for that. There’s people that like artists that I don’t, and you’d be the same. There’s things in nineties comics that I go, you know what I mean?

leigh Chalker (02:33:44):
There’s plenty of things in nineties comics, man that I go about. But I was saying before, man, just because you or I might dislike it, other people do. And that’s the beauty of art mate. It’s your own interpretation and your own subjectivity of what you like and that sort of thing. I mean, everyone in the world was the same, it’d be a boring place.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:34:07):
That’s right. But I guess going back to the HAI comment, the comics that I’m gravitate towards are the ones that aim to do that strong storytelling. So yeah, I dig it.

leigh Chalker (02:34:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hence your love of Frank Miller, et cetera that you were talking about earlier. Alright, we got Ryan O’Connor, mate, next up. So you should have been here for Paul. Paul. There you go. It was part comics talk, part philosophical, deep dive into life’s mysteries.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:34:43):
That’s Paul over. Yeah, I’ve known Paul.

leigh Chalker (02:34:47):
Yeah, Paul’s cool dude, man, I like Paul.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:34:49):
He’s a nice fellow. I haven’t seen him in many, many, many years, but yeah, I remember early days when he brought out the list and yeah, he’s a thinker.

leigh Chalker (02:35:02):
He’s a thinker man. And that’s what I enjoyed that chinwag too, because I appreciated the openness from Paul and the many things that he was willing to discuss and it was a very, at times a little confronting, I’m sure for some people out there, but truly honest and heartfelt conversation I thought, and I enjoyed it very much, man,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:35:31):
We’re all fighting our wars and that’s why I’m always like, you just got to be kind because you dunno what people are sort of going through.

leigh Chalker (02:35:41):
Yes, man, a hundred percent man, it’s truer words never been spoken mate. Kindness never cost a thing, man. Do you know what I mean? And a little patience and compassion with people just being emotionally aware that that other person may be going through some stuff, but hopefully I wish there were more emotionally aware and intelligent people out there.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:36:09):
More people need to do some sort of therapy for sure, just to even learn the tools of self-care and self management. Maybe it’s something that should have been in high schools perhaps, although who knows if I would’ve been socially mature to process it, let alone another teenager or something. But anyway, it is what it is. But

leigh Chalker (02:36:38):
Yeah, at least these subjects seem to be more openly approached now mate, as opposed to when we were younger and not so openly approached.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:36:49):
Yeah, it’s getting there. I feel like society still has a long way to go, just sort of witnessing what my family, Amanda, what she goes through. But yeah, absolutely. Things are changing and you’ve got to be open to what’s happening around you at the end of the day, the way people carry on, it’s like other people’s lives affect them in some way, shape, or form where things that they have an issue about might not affect them at all, but it’s the culture of wanting to be outraged and about something or upset about something and it’s like how does that affect your day to day? Is that literally slapping food out of your mouth or kicking you out of your,

leigh Chalker (02:37:42):
I think sometimes people just think being intrusive and the way other people want to live their lives as a necessary way that, I dunno, it’s like they like to be busy or I think if more people just focused inward and focused on themselves and just got themselves and as long as other people are happy and peaceful and calm and kind and doing their own thing, then that’s really, that all should matter, man. Do you know what I mean? But I don’t understand why this person’s got an opinion on them. That person’s got an opinion on them where if you turn the lens the other way, it’s like, man, you’re the one giving an opinion. You ain’t got your shit together, man.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:38:30):
Sometimes it’s easier for people to look externally and try to fix somebody else before they try to fix themselves. Sometimes people don’t necessarily have those hardships that someone else has gone through, so they don’t, whether it’s something in their wiring that makes them apathetic or maybe it’s an agenda that they have in order to get somewhere or sell something, who knows? But it could be a combination of all those things.

leigh Chalker (02:39:02):
Combination mate. Not say it’s like, but all we can do Paul, is keep being, keep trying to win the war for love, mate, so I can push forward with that. So the more I was to do it, the more expressed bed’s like a ripple mate, and then it’ll get bigger and bigger if people blow it through. So yeah. Yeah, man, clamp shell, they’re sent in. Paul is a legit legend amongst the people. He’s taught nothing but love from his students past and present, so there you go. I was just going to say to you before, I’m so glad that just triggered me into remembering when you were talking about Kid Phantom and you said a comment about kid enjoyed it and it brought kids into reading comic books meant hope one day that while you are teaching, you get one kid or a young individual student walk up to you and go, you know what, man, it was your kid Phantom that got me into all this say, I hope that happens for you, man, because I reckon that

Dr. Paul Mason (02:40:04):
Aussie Cox, there is an invisible aspect to it sometimes in terms of how it’s digested and where it can be sought. I’ve had a student say to me once that I came to the college to learn and just to do your course or whatever, which was nice, and they were already making comics and doing good things, so that was nice of them and it was nice of clamshell there to say that I know that not every, it’s hard human nature, you focus on the negatives and particularly myself, I tend to focus on the negatives. So I know that out of a classroom full of people, if one person has a problem, whether I’ve given ’em feedback that didn’t placate them or whether I misunderstood whatever they were doing or whether they just had a chip on their shoulder or I didn’t help ’em that day because they felt that whatever their problem was, I didn’t have the solution, not everybody’s going to be pleased.

(02:41:16)
And I tend to get fixated on the people that might have a personal comment or attack to say about what I do. Or I’ve had a couple of horrible student feedback years ago comment that in hindsight I know that they were probably bitter about where they were at and what they were doing, but it still hurts nevertheless. And you keep it in the back of your mind and it makes you a little bit gun shy about feedback in general. But it’s always a nice surprise when people appreciate what you’re trying to do, particularly when there is sort of hardships or life impacting in some way, shape or form and you’re just trying to survive. But at the same time, be passionate about the work that you do and try to pass off what you love and what you appreciate about whether animation or art or filmmaking or storytelling, regardless of whatever the parameters are surrounding your own work, your own perceived hangups or whatever, where you are situated in the ladder of life and those impacts that you might be receiving in regards to that. So it’s always nice to hear that sort of stuff. Anyway.

leigh Chalker (02:42:48):
Yeah, no, it’s good mate. I’m glad you got that out from a comment there because I also appreciate the fact that you are being very honest and open here tonight too, mate, because teacher, you’re a fantom artist like ge, you’re successful, very successful in the Australian comic scene man and community. Well again, success to me, you are, you’re working, you’re busy, you’re a teacher, you’re a family man, like a husband, like father of many feathered animals and things. So you’re busy, you’re a martial artist, so you’re doing lots of stuff, mate. And to me that’s a success of full life and looking at how just humble you are about having your own certain reservation and insecurities about certain things tonight gives a lot of hope for people out there that are feeling insecurities to know that people like yourself mate, that echelon or creator and things feel to a certain extent that way too. But you’ve managed to do your best to push through and just keep on plugging away, man. So I find that really inspirational. So Oh,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:44:10):
Thanks mate. It’s probably just spite you’re just fueled on, well

leigh Chalker (02:44:15):
Man, whatever drives you mate, anger is the best fuel too, mate. You turn anger into determination and you just keep pumping those wheels, man. That’s what I reckon. I think that’s what happened to me, dude. I gave up on the anger and just I let him get, but no man, appreciate that. It’s really, really cool. Now Sean, you got another one here, we got, yeah, there’s this sense of accomplishment for a day and then the next day you are back to a blank page. So yeah, that’s the life of the artist. Yes mate. And we’ve got another one from Ryan O’Connor here. There’s almost no other illustrated medium that requires you to know how to draw basically everything from every angle. Yep. Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Oh, here we go. That was a great Sabbath song. Warpage. There you go. That’s a little play on the flock there. And I’d love to see new Mandrake stories too, actually. Mandrake the Magician. It would be cool, man. We

Dr. Paul Mason (02:45:22):
Did have a chance to do a young man Drake in Kid fandom issue six, I think it was. That was fun to sort of think about what that might look like. And I know based on the, I think the first one that came out was a Brenton McKenna story. My mate from up north, I had a design and I was working on that comic and then he had a short that came out in a Supernova magazine from Memory and I think it’s in the first kid of trade, so yeah. Yeah, that was fun. I know that King Features did a legacy of Mandrake comic, but it felt like that just came and went and it was kind of a tenuous connection to what the original was, but it had its moments and a fun style.

leigh Chalker (02:46:17):
Well, I quite liked Man Drake. I remember man Drake being real funky in that cartoon series years ago with the Flash in Phantom and that sort of stuff in it, man, I liked, believe it or not, I liked Man Drake the most out of all of them. I thought he was cool and still do to a certain extent for a while. I’ll go back and YouTube those videos now. That’s how much I, yeah,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:46:41):
They’re all

leigh Chalker (02:46:43):
There’ve already done it. Very good. Alright, we

Dr. Paul Mason (02:46:47):
Have cartoons playing for the birds while they’re in their cages, so I’ve just got YouTube on loop for them. So they watch classic cartoons. A lot of eighties cartoon blocks exist on YouTube where someone’s just taken Saturday morning cartoons that they’ve taped and put ’em online, including all the ads. So if you want a bit of nostalgia kick,

leigh Chalker (02:47:09):
Oh man, that’s crazy. Check that out. I’d probably recite those ads, man.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:47:13):
Yeah, absolutely.

leigh Chalker (02:47:15):
Yeah, yeah. Alright, we’ve got Jeffrey Beats great chat. Thanks. Very impressive Paul, thank you very much for watching tonight Jeffrey, really appreciate the support for Chinwag and for Paul and Spie here. Get a mate, mate straight back at you and we’ve got comment backlog time come up again. I dunno if that’s an ending or the book and the comments or whether still coming, I’m not sure, but I guess we’ll find it out in the gif now Paul, as we wind down our show, we’ll see if there’s any more comments coming up. Mate, one question. We’ve got an idea of why you do it because you love it and you’re passionate about it. Obviously your passion shines through, you’re talented at it, it’s in your blood mate. It’s one of those things that got you through when you’re a kid as well as your martial arts into to be mate and to feel good about yourself. Thank you very much for Nick May always being a supporter. So mate, you’re sitting at a convention, big Paul, sitting at a convention up walks little Paul, what would you say at a little Paul mate, what would speed a little Paul

Dr. Paul Mason (02:48:38):
Learn to love maths and be an accountant

leigh Chalker (02:48:44):
And every artist that’s watching went?

Dr. Paul Mason (02:48:50):
No. Yeah, I mean that’s something I always grapple with. Like you were saying earlier, the whys and all that sort of stuff. But I guess it comes back to because we love it and that’s the sort of life we want to lead as best as we can. Little Paul, I mean I guess that would be the advice. You only live once, so you kind of got to do something that you want to do. Sometimes there are jobs that might seem lucrative, but really it’s about can you do that thing day in and day out and whether you can hold onto your sanity doing it. I remember being, when I was lost prevention for years, I became somebody sometimes that I didn’t like and my partner didn’t like because it was just soul eating in a way. You were dealing with the fringe of society. I wasn’t a copper and I wasn’t in a prison, but you were dealing with cops and people just out of prison or about to go into prison and though you had some funny stories and some funny encounters, it wasn’t something I wanted to do. I was very good at it. And I remember while I was studying my doctorate, they said to me, we want to fast track you through the supervisor and eventually become a manager of a loss prevention team in your own store. I’m like, yeah, but I don’t want to do that. When I was bored in downtime, I was wandering around on patrol, thinking about how to overcome a plot beat in a soldier, legacy comic planning the next pages.

(02:50:58)
I still do that in a way at nighttime when I lay down to sleep, I’ll be rehearsing conversations between two characters in a comic that I’m currently drawing. So it’s always there. It’s always ticking over. So I guess it was just picking something that I wanted to do because I liked it and making sure that whatever that thing was, I could do it repetitively and be comfortable doing it repetitively and just being open to the way that things work out in life. So you’re always sort of striving to do your best and you’re always trying to learn how to do better, but also being flexible enough so that if opportunity does arise, that comes up recognising how beneficial that opportunity might be to you in the long run. So that’s what I would say to little Paul because I didn’t go into university knowing that I was going to be a doctor and then eventually teach in the course and restructure and rewrite the course along with a couple of my colleagues. The very thing that I’d gone into study a decade earlier, I remember sitting in the car park, I just finished my honours, I had my one issue of Soldier Legacy.

(02:52:40)
I was 10 minutes late for my job in retail at the time, and I got a phone call from the uni saying, you’ve got a really good mark in your honours. You’ve basically got a gold card. What do you want to do? You want to do a master’s, you want to do a doctorate? You got a stipend essentially for a couple of grand provided that you study next year, what were your plans? And I looked at the empty car park either side of me and went, I got no plan. I’ll come in and talk to you. And then the next thing I know I, I’m studying and I remember sitting in Centrelink offices and the employment person that they put you in front of while you’re on that look for work stuff is like, we usually just get brick layers in here and bricklaying jobs like you, you’re getting a doctorate, you’ve got double degrees and we don’t know what to do with you and what sort of job to put you in. So it’s like you never know where life is going to take you. So just be open to those opportunities when they arise and just have your eyes be prepared.

(02:54:03)
I know I’m dragging the show, I don’t mean to, but I’ll No, take your time. This is the fluidity of the chinwag. Thank you. I remember sitting at a DC comics panel in 2011 at San Diego and it was called DC Origins and it was about all these different artists, how they got into the thing. And a good friend of mine, Nicola, was on that panel, that’s why I was there watching. And they had Greg Cap and they had Jimmy Ti and they had Gal Simone and a couple of other people up there. And everybody’s origin story started pre nine 11. And what I mean by that is when you hear about how these cartoonists in the American industry got into their job, they were able to just walk in as a kid. Maybe they catch a train or drive down to New York, wander into the office, hang around until they find the editor that they want to see pester other editors while they’re there, stick their stuff on their desks, whatever.

(02:55:11)
When I went to DC in 2011 or 2012 or 13, I always get my dates mixed up. Whenever new 52 started, it was a nondescript building in Burbank. And if you remember Men in Black, that movie where he walks in and there’s that big room with the security guard and the big fan going and he gets into the lift and it’s not until the lift opens that you’re in men in black, the MIB. Yeah, it was the same with dc. You’ve got a security guard and if your name’s not on the book, you’re not coming in and you get buzzed up into a lift and it’s not until those lift doors open and you walk down the hall and you see a spinner rack and big green Lanter logo and the foyer and the Joker costumes and the glass case that you go, oh, okay, this is dc. And you get ushered to the desk that you’re talking or the office where you’re talking to the guy and then you’ve escorted back out.

(02:56:12)
So there is definitely elements of luck to the way that creators get these jobs, but I could bump into the CEO of Apple tomorrow and he could offer me one of the highest positions in his company, but I’m not going to have a clue how to pull that job off or be good at it. But that’s the aspect that I can control. So if I can control doing my best at the work that I have in front of me or what I can do and be open towards opportunities as they arise and try to put myself in those positions to begin with, then that’s where, as they say, chance favours the prepared.

(02:57:08)
So do what you love, work on it all you can control, do it because you love it. And then everything else that is attached to it is a bonus. Because if it’s all about money and fame or going to cons and being a guest and getting groupies and fans and adulation, if that’s the goal, then you might find it a hollow pursuit if that’s not something that you can achieve. But if it’s about your development and the love of the craft of what you’re doing and what you’re trying to tell, then I find that that can be more rewarding in itself. And the other stuff is just cherries, whether it happens to for you or not, it shouldn’t necessarily matter even though sometimes I know from an ego’s point of view it probably hurts sometimes, but that’s okay because it’s not all the be all and end all of life at least.

leigh Chalker (02:58:16):
I think that’s a very good way of looking at it. It’s like back flip backwards, calm down. I always love to you. Great chat. Thanks everyone. See you Saturday night.

Dr. Paul Mason (02:58:31):
Oh yeah, comic street. Yeah, this Saturday in Brisbane. Yeah, that’s where I, yeah.

leigh Chalker (02:58:36):
Yeah. Lovely. Very good mate. I thank you for very grateful for you coming on the show tonight. I know it’s taken us a few attempts to get John here over the course of time because you’ve been busy. I’ve been busy and it’s just the world roles. But hey, the universe brought us together for this evening, mate, and I’m,

Dr. Paul Mason (02:58:59):
I’m grateful for being asked in the first place to listen to my jba. So that’s,

leigh Chalker (02:59:03):
Oh man, you’re not jibing mate. You’re not gi, you’re dropping good stuff, mate. For a lot of people, as I said, past, present, and future. So trying to do this for as many creatives as we can mate. So you’re

Dr. Paul Mason (02:59:21):
The diversity of what you, I’ve said it to sizzle before and I remember Zorn’s podcast, graphic Nature gave the same compliment. There’s a spectrum of people you talk to and I appreciate the spectrum because everyone’s doing something different. I’ve talked about it in papers that I’ve writing, but when you look into Aussie comics, there’s people out there that are making comics that we’ve never even heard of and you might never even see because whether they want to go to a con or whether there’s not one near them, whether there’s no comic stores near ’em, but they’re just making comics and they’re putting it out somewhere and they have a following, that’s rad. Do that. That’s awesome,

leigh Chalker (03:00:09):
Man. I a hundred percent agree. And the thing is, if Siz was here too on the screen with us here to agree is the amount of people, to a certain extent, you think you’ve found a lot of people, but then you realise there’s so many more people and then there’s so many more people beyond that. So there are a lot of creative people out there that are doing their things and for whatever reason, man, you’re doing it. I mean, it’s a beautiful thing. I appreciate creativity in general, just I appreciate the comic medium because it’s just where my love’s at in terms of storytelling and stuff and you’re a huge part of it mate. And thank you for being part of the Chinwag family for sharing your story, man. And yeah, it’s been an awesome pleasure to meet you. It’s been one of my goals is to catch up with you at some point, man, and have a good old chat. Thank you. I appreciate it. Alright, so as we wind down, everyone, just before I forget now, I’ll come back to wind down. Paul, where can anyone find your stuff, mate? If they want to catch up with you in terms of your comic books and your artwork? You got to,

Dr. Paul Mason (03:01:22):
Yeah, if you go to mason comics.com au, that should have links and things to my work. Links to books that you can get from either Gestalt or through publications website’s. Phantom comic.com au gestalt is gestalt comics.com au. There’s a human fly issue zero I think is dropping in comic stores this week that I think I did a one pager for. So there’s things out and about. I’ll be in Melbourne in a couple of weeks for Metro Comic-Con, I’ll be in Brisbane for Comic Street this week. I thought that would be fun to go to a local place and catch up with some people and get rid of some back issues. See how we go. And I think I’m back in Melbourne later in the year for the Melbourne Comics and Toys Fair Market. I got that name wrong. But yeah, September I think that is. But yeah, so I’m around. Otherwise just Google. If you Google Paul Mason, you’ll get anywhere between the political writer, the world’s fattest man. So just don’t go to Google Image if you find that it’s pretty gross. He’s lost a lot of weight, good for him. But anyway, don’t worry about that.

leigh Chalker (03:02:57):
Fair. Paul’s in unusual company there. But look, that’s okay. It makes it lively. All right, so everyone, that’s where you can find Paul. Now don’t forget, just at the start of the show, I said a lot of stuff, but the most important thing I forgot is to like and subscribe the channel because the more likes and subscriptions we get, the bigger the algorithm works and the tree grows and it spreads its roots and leaves and branches and grows out to other people so that they may catch on to this show. And the other shows that are on the Comex livestream section, which is the Comex network, which is like, and subscribe, YouTube, Facebook, like, and subscribe Anywhere you can find ’em. Alright, so last thing I would like to say, and I always like to leave it on this. We said so during the show, but for myself personally and Shane and Paul talking to him tonight, mental health is very important in the world.

(03:03:55)
There are some people that just don’t through no fault of their own, but sometimes pressure just gets to people. Sometimes people feel alone, they can’t talk to people. Sometimes people have difficulty speaking about their emotions and what’s troubling them. Sometimes if you haven’t heard from a friend, just send them a message. Say Good day. Taking consideration for your fellow brothers and sisters out there because there’s a lot of things happening in the world at the moment and some people deal with them a little bit better than others. So if you see someone down, help ’em out. It doesn’t hurt or take any time or money to be kind and compassionate to your fellow human being. So go and make someone smile tomorrow. It might make their day, it might even save a life. Look, I’d like to thank Paul again. Thank, thanks everyone for watching the show supporting Chinwag. We’ll be back again next Tuesday night at seven 30. And look, remember, community is Unity and Chinwag is and always will be made with love. See you later. Be good. See you later Paul. Thank you Lee. My pleasure, mate.

Voice Over (03:05:18):
This show is sponsored by the Comics shop. Check out to Comics shop to pick up a variety of Australian comics from multiple creators and publishers. All for one flat postage rate. We hope you enjoyed the show. I.